Scaling Up: Stages of Company Expansion - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Tracey Donels of Service First Solutions. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Intro: Welcome to Roofing Road Trips, the podcast that takes you on a thrilling journey across the world of roofing. From fascinating interviews with roofing experts to on-the-road adventures, we'll uncover the stories, innovations and challenges that shape the rooftops over our heads. So fasten your seatbelts and join us as we embark on this exciting Roofing Road Trip.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Hello and welcome to another Roofing Road Trips from Roofer's Coffee Shop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth and we're here to talk about one of the hottest topics in roofing, and that's service and maintenance and not just about service and maintenance, but how you can grow your service and maintenance, how you can grow your business by adding service and maintenance and then how you grow that division to really see success, amazing margins and all the great things that go with it from sales and marketing perspective. So we of course had to get the person who knows more about service and maintenance than anyone I know, and that is Tracey Donels with Service First Solutions. Tracey, welcome to the show.

Tracey Donels: Thank you very much, Heidi. Thank you very much.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: You and I have been working together for so many years and I was so lucky to be working with NRP as you were running the full service. You were just growing this huge service department at KPost, so it was always fun to see what you were doing and now that you've brought it consulting-wise and training-wise to the industry, brilliant. Absolutely spectacular. So tell us a little bit, introduce yourself because I'm getting excited and talking on. Introduce yourself and tell us about your company.

Tracey Donels: I will and until you said that I really didn't think about it. I really think of services as an information business and when we met, we were both in the information business and now we're both out here helping contractors grow through the ways that are, I guess is our expertise level. And to that, my name is Tracey Donels. I run Service First Solutions. I've been in the commercial industry, roofing industry for about 20 years and all 20 years of that has been spent either working and growing a service department or helping other service departments do that very same thing.

Service has been my number one focus since the day I entered the industry, and I love it. And that's why I do what I do is because I get to stay focused in service and help people grow their departments all across the country. And that's what we're really trying to do at Service First. No matter what size you are of a commercial firm, every roofer needs to have a service department. But the ones that really take advantage of it and really chase it can really develop those relationships and grab all of those long-term benefits that everybody knows are out there with the service department, but sometimes we just get a little busy, we get a little sidetracked or maybe we're just having so much success somewhere else that we forget what's going on over here. We don't have time. So that's where we try to come in and try to be that extra set of hands, that roadmap for growth, whether you're talking about starting, growing or scaling your service department.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And just before we dive into that, I just think for everyone out there watching over the roofing industry over the years, a strong service and maintenance department, like you said, sometimes it gets a little bit frightening, but that service and maintenance department will take you through so many ups and downs of a business because you're building the relationships with the building owners, you're solving problems. They come to you, not even to mention the dollars around this. Just before we even start, share just a little bit around that, why is it so important to the overall business that you have a service and maintenance department?

Tracey Donels: First and foremost, we know we have to take care of the products that we put down. We know that we're not perfect. One of my mentors in the business said, "Tracey, it's construction. We're going to screw up someplace. We can't be perfect." So we know we have to have a service department. And we all have heard of the financial benefit that you spoke of. When I got into this industry a lot of people spoke of, well, service pays the overhead, service pays the bills and all the other stuff, it could be sprinkles. So can keep the lights on, that's another one. Service keeps the lights on, you get that one a lot.

But like I said, if we can take that approach and just go out and chase it, rather than really keep the lights on, we get all these extra added benefits that you see these large firms, these large service departments taking advantage of. And those are the repeat customers. Like you said, they're going to take you through the ups and downs. Every roof needs maintenance one time or another. And in a good economy, service is important. In a bad economy, service is vital and to really build that customer loyalty and that brand loyalty. Very few people in their daily lives fire a service provider that they like and does good work.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It's hard to find that.

Tracey Donels: I always bring up the example of my wife's hairdresser. My wife likes her hairdresser. She does good work. Doesn't matter what the price is. If we go in and it's an extra $30 this month, guess what? We're paying an extra $30.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Exactly.

Tracey Donels: We're we're not passing around, we're not Googling any reviews, we're just paying. And a service can be very similar like that, and not every job on the project side is just handed to us, but this is where service has that knowledge and that customer base and that relationship. Maybe our bid on the project is just a little smarter because we've been on the roof more than everyone else.

Maybe we know how to sell the customer because we've had that relationship for five years or eight years and maybe when we get that job, maybe it's just way easier for our projects team to run because we've been servicing them for so many years, we have that relationship. "Oh, oh, Louise, oh, thank you so much for helping us out. Heidi in service has been taking care of us for years, but you can't make everything last forever. So thank you so much for putting this roof on." They're just so much more enthusiastic because they like you. They like your people because of the name that's on their shirt because you've been helping them and servicing them. And of course we get paid on time because we have relationship pay us on time and think about how many problems we hear about payables and cashflow and stuff like that. Especially when we're talking about new construction. This service stuff leads us into those reroofs that are more profitable and they're much quicker turnarounds in terms of cashflow.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love it. I love it. It's so true. So, okay, honestly contractors are out there looking at this and kind of figuring out what they're going to do, let's start out with can you walk us through the structure of some of the small roofing teams that are out there right now and then how what they need to be thinking about as whether it's a small company, just two people maybe, three people in a company or even a small service department, like one person starting that, talk to us what the structure of those small teams are.

Tracey Donels: So what we find, especially on the smallest of teams, let's say the ones that are, maybe it's a small company and they're really just doing the service that comes to them. The service that walks in the door, you're going to get leaks. You're going to get a customer who, hey, their truck backed into a downspout or they need a new hatch or they got to replace a skylight or something like that. There is going to be some service that just walks through the door. And a lot of times we see one person really in the office side doing a lot of everything. They're scheduling, they're taking the calls, they're doing the paperwork. They might even be sending the invoice, definitely doing the estimates and maybe walking a roof. They are a food truck. And this is an analogy I say a lot of times, they're a food truck, they got one person and they're just working as fast as they can to produce that work.

And they might have a couple of guys or they might be pulling people from production to do that work when it comes in. But often when we talk to people and we say, "Hey, if you want to grow your service department, even if you're going to take service seriously, we think you should have two people to very well get started, because if you are going to grow, there's going to be lots of stuff to do." And service is all about capacity. Do we have time to address the customer's need? And the need could be several different things. We always think about roof leaks, but just think about turnaround time and how fast you answer the call or schedule work or get the work done. When I was trained in this industry, too many people, when the phones were ringing off the hook and everybody's got leaks, they'd say, "Okay, thank you very much. We have your information. We'll call you when we get you on the schedule." Well, that's awful.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I know it's awful. I want to know when?

Tracey Donels: When I call my HVAC company, sweet Barbara, who knows nothing about fixing air conditioners, says, "Thank you very much, Tracey, we've got you on call for Thursday at 9:30." Or it might be two weeks from today at 10:00, but at least then I have my expectations. They're taking care of my need at the time, which is to say, "Hey, I have an issue and I need this be reported." So we really stress to focus on, have two people on the team because there's going to be a lot of things to do. And when we think about the things that we are going to be doing, very rarely will we find one person that excels at all of it. Because there's going to be, let's say outside tasks that are in the real roofing realm, but so much of service is administration and communication and documentation and stuff like that. And the best service departments I know, the best service salespeople I know have administrative staffs or help in one way or another to help them do the things that maybe they're not best at.

Going back to that Chick-fil-A analogy, I can't do three things if I'm working in the drive thru, I do one thing, I take orders or I cook or I bag or I take the food or I clean. I'm not doing lots of stuff at one time because ultimately that's going to cap my capacity. And going back to service is all about turnaround time, all about how fast you can do it. So-

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah.

Tracey Donels: Oh, go ahead.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: No, no, no. I was just going to say keep going on that because as we're talking about going from... So really to just come back to your point as you're putting your service department in, think about that two man crew and I guess you have my mind whirling because one of the things I've heard a lot, Tracey, is also when you're thinking about that two man, two person crew going out there to the roof, a lot of times pairing somebody with a lot of experience to somebody with a lot of technical or maybe he has better on technology, I'm not going to say older and younger, because that, whoever, but putting those things together can make a great team. And then as you're growing, adding that administration, administrative or coordinator role in there, how do contractors do that? How do you walk them through that process of those roles and growing?

Tracey Donels: So typically, and even if we have these two people that are saying, I want to say office staff for the service department, they may not be 100% service department. The administrator, especially at the beginning, they might also run the front desk or stuff like that. But the key is if we have two people working in, let's say the department and one is handling the administration, the coordination, the invoicing and one is handling the estimating, project management and roof inspections, say like that, if they're doing service half of their 40-hour week or half of their 50-hour week, when service pops up service needs to be prioritized. Service needs to happen right now. Too often when we share roles, service gets pushed to the back. So I want to make sure that's clear right there. When we have those two people, they might specialize in their tasks, but those service tasks have to come first.

And then as we have that work coming in, we start, like I said, with that two person crew. Then as we track certain numbers in the service department, our weekly scorecard will show us just exactly what the next piece we need is. Because when we talk about small department, like we said, we're doing the work that comes to us, we're doing the work that we have time for. Are we doing everything that we're going to do to go out and get business and sustain business when we're a much larger company? Well, no, we don't have the capacity for that, but the key is doing the smart things first to then grow that, well, I need to have one crew and then now I need two crews and now I need three crews. Along with that, I need an extra person in the office. And that gets to, do we have the revenue coming in to expand the team of let's say support in the office, whether they're administrators, estimators, project managers, superintendents, whatever it happens to be.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So as you're looking at it, so I want to kind of jump a little bit to sales because that to your point, that's how you grow it. So when do they really look at, I'm going to ask this in kind of a weird way because if you think about a roofing company, of course they have their sales teams who are selling, but I know that with you and you advocate too, to have salespeople that are committed just to service and maintenance. How does that happen and how do you suggest that going from using your salespeople who are also selling all your reroof and everything else to that dedicated person to grow that office?

Tracey Donels: So I think eventually it is very important to have those dedicated service salespeople and at no fault of our normal business revenue generators, but those folks are busy. And when you think about it, it's two totally different worlds. The project side, I know the customer needs a reroof. They either came to me or an event happened or my service team saw that we just can't save this roof anymore. One way or another, we found out that they definitely need to reroof.

On the service side too many of our customers don't know they need us. They only know of roof leaks and because they only know of roof leaks, that's the only roof service that a lot of roofing companies do because that's the stuff that walks in the door, I've got to get this fixed because of X, because of Y, whatever happens to be. But the very first things we want to start, let's say, proposing to our customers to grow that revenue when we work with smaller companies especially, is one field recommendations following those roof leaks. We came out, we addressed the roof leak. It's going to be $800, but we saw four other things that we think are going to leak within the next year and we can fix those for, let's make up a number $1,600.

"Well, oh no, I don't have $1,600 right now. I can't afford it." No problem Mr. Customer, you know an average roof leak costs you $800, so I'll wait for these four to leak over the course of the next 12 months. I will bill you $3,200 to fix them. You'll be happy to pay me to do it. But you also have interruptions in your business. You might have some stained ceiling tiles. If you don't want to write me a check $1,200 right now to save you $2,000 plus all the extra time, I totally understand. But when you go through the numbers, it really starts to make sense. So that first one is the field recommendations, and the second one is a preventive maintenance program. And that's another really, really hot topic in the industry right now, is that recurring revenue, that repeat business, that stuff that is filed away for next year. We have our customers on our preventive maintenance programs, we can go out and visit them whenever we want because we've already sold them on a plan, a plan that saves them money, is easy to understand and is easy for us to track and process.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That makes so much sense and it is hot. And for building owners being able to do better planning and what they're going to do instead of being hit sideways when things fail or a catastrophe happens or a snow or whatever it may be, we're going to snow to have that preventative maintenance and having somebody who you know is going to take care of your roof during the big snow falls, pretty important.

Tracey Donels: I was talking to a customer today in Kansas that the insurance providers in Kansas are offering a discount on your insurance if you have a preventative maintenance plan on your roof.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow.

Tracey Donels: I was talking to a customer in California that said there are certain insurance companies that were just saying, if you want insurance, this roof might be 22 years old and might be fine, but it doesn't have a warranty, so you're going to need to go get a roof with the warranty. And if you think about the two things I talked about the way to grow that revenue, we didn't go out and get any new customers. We recommended work on existing leak calls and preventive maintenance plans on existing buildings we're working with or roofs that we've put the roof on, we have it under warranty, but we haven't heard from in seven years. Either one of these things takes people necessarily getting out of the office to sell. And again, that's key because we don't have the capacity to do everything. We love to go out and do lunch and learns and do a job fair and all kinds of stuff. Well, yeah, but I've got four people on staff, I can't do that. So what are the easy things I can do?

Heidi J. Ellsworth: When you think about your CRM or your files, whatever they may be, right there is huge amounts of potential of opportunities to sell. And just getting on the phone, building those relationships and your current sales people, it really helps them too because now they have something else to talk about and something else to offer as you're putting all this together.

You mentioned this earlier, and I think this is really important for us to talk about, is for the service departments, no matter how small, if it's one person growing to huge, is to really develop scorecards and KPIs, key performance indicators to help really guide the quality and the performance, but also the growth. Talk about that.

Tracey Donels: Yeah, I think it's incredibly important. I'm going to go back to Chick-fil-A again because I do it all the time. So it's an easy analogy. When the Chick-fil-A is super busy, it's easy to see. There are cars out the parking lot, they're lined up around the block and they say, "Wow, we need to put in another lane or another three lanes." Well now in the time of invisible work orders and electronic backlogs and CRMs, we don't see those huge stacks of work orders like we used to in old departments to know what we have to do, how busy we are, what is our turnaround time, are we providing good customer service? When I got started and I knew I had to bring in an extra table to hold all the work orders, I knew I wasn't providing very good service. But now if it's in a system, if we don't have a way to track it, we may lose track of that. We may not know. So I think a weekly scorecard is very important. It's something we do with all of our yearly customers immediately when we get started.

And the first things we track are going back to the stuff that we have to do. If work comes in the doors, what are the things we absolutely have to do to make sure that we're providing good service? So we start with five numbers that we track each week. We track how many bids did we deliver to the customer last week from the service realm, and what was the dollar value of those bids. The third number we track is how many bids do we owe the customer?

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh, I like that.

Tracey Donels: How many are we behind? How many cars are in our Chick-fil-A drive thru line? Because just from those first three numbers, I can develop an average number of bids that I can put out a week. And if I know at all times how many I owe the customer, if I know I can get out 10 a week and I owe the customers 20, I'm two weeks behind. If I only owe them five, I'm only a couple of days behind on average. Is it going to work out every time? No, but service that numbers work out the averages, it's amazing. The more units you get in there, the more you get to those good averages.

The other numbers we track is how much work do we have approved that hasn't been completed yet? Because again, we want to know what is our turnaround time? If somebody calls and they have something that's broken, how long is it going to take us to fix it? If I call the air conditioning company in July because my air conditioning is broken in Dallas, Texas and they say, "Well, we got openings in five weeks." I say, "Well, I got other phone numbers I can call because five weeks ain't going to work."

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Exactly.

Tracey Donels: You go someplace else, and that's a sticky point. A lot of roofing owners like huge backlogs. Projects, that's fine. It's all dated. We know when we're going to build it. We know when it's going to reroof and all that kind of stuff like that. Every service job that gets approved, they want it done right away because something's already broken, they're ready to spend the money now.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Exactly. Yeah.

Tracey Donels: So backlog is important because it's okay to have a couple of weeks of backlog, but we don't want to have 15, 16. And then the last thing is the invoicing. How many invoices do we owe the customer? That is unfortunately a sticking point in service as well, because we have these poor administrators that are working on small departments or small companies, so they're wearing a lot of hats and we have to take the incoming calls, we have to schedule the work order, we have to do these other tasks that are involved in the projects and answering the phones at the front desk. But the invoicing, when I get time, when I have time, that invoice will be there, I can send it out. And if we went to go get our Chick-fil-A and they said, "Here's your two bags of food. Whenever we get a chance, we'll send you a bill." You'd be like, "How do you guys make any money whatsoever?" It must be horribly difficult to collect this money and think about what most companies have trouble with, service collections. But if we were to invoice them the same day or the next business day, it's amazing how much easier those collections get.

So those are the five numbers we really watch because those are the five beginning numbers that will start to tell us when do we need more capacity for estimating? When do we need more capacity to actually get work done because our customers are waiting too long? We need more capacity for invoicing, and eventually we add other numbers on there about superintendent site visits, safety checks, field recommendations that are coming in per week, all kinds of different stuff. I'm a big believer that everybody has a number.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Everybody has a number. It makes sense.

Tracey Donels: Everybody has a number.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, it keeps you honest. It just does. For companies that are starting on, I want to talk about companies that don't have a service department right now and just talk a little bit about what they should be doing. I mean, we've talked about talk to your current customers, here's the things you're doing, but is it going to be a special team? Is it going to be a special truck? Is there different ways to do it? Kind of just walk through a little bit, Tracey, on as people are looking at this going into the new year, what are some of the things, some of the givens that have to happen with starting a new service department?

Tracey Donels: Well, I do think they have to be separate and I don't mean separate as a separate company or separate building or even like I said, I mean ultimately if we work in the service department, we do service, but we don't want, let's say for our office or our service coordinator. Let's say we only have 20 hours of work a week for a service coordinator. We need that 20 hours to be done by the same person every week and be prioritized. We don't want multiple people doing the same thing unless that's all they do.

Good example is service estimating. This is the one that always gets me. I don't want my eight project estimators also bidding service because they'll bid service when they have time. I'd much rather have one service estimator, and all he does is process all the service bids that come in because they're quick, they're in, they're out. It's time related. If I'm a project estimator and I, "Oh no, I'm estimator. I sell service. I bid service too. I bid service too." Well, the boss is going to know if I didn't get the $500,000 reroof bid out tomorrow and he's going to know that a $3 million opportunity came in and he needs me to jump on it right away. He may not even know that I have five customers waiting for repair bids on stuff that is leaking now, and it's their issue right now. If we take care of that issue, they're just going to keep coming back to us. So that's where I really think it has to be a dedicated people. It doesn't have to mean I have to be doing that all 40 hours of the week, but I handle those service opportunities.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And they take priority.

Tracey Donels: And they take priority. But yes, if you think about it, you're going to have a special crew. You're going to have special trucks because we need to be more prepared. A team that shows up to build a house is totally different than a team that shows up to repair a house. Especially think about leaks. We don't know what we're walking into. We don't know what kind of roof it is. We may have to carry a lot of different things. So yes, ultimately I think everything is specialized. And if you think about it, the easy, I think, analogy is sheet metal.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah.

Tracey Donels: Almost every projects department, these guys, oh yeah, but then the sheet metal crew comes in or the sheet metal estimator or the sheet metal superintendent. Service is the exact same way. Service, it's a special discipline and it's not roofing. It's communication and documentation.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So when you're talking about we have the contractors who are starting their service maintenance, but you also have a number of out there who have service and maintenance, but maybe they haven't been in the growth mentality, they haven't really been thinking about focusing on growing and getting the right team for growth. What's some of your advice on building a growth mentality team that is going to help take your service to that next level?

Tracey Donels: We see that a lot with established companies, especially in let's say large cities. They might be a $60 million or $70 million roofing company and they're doing $3 million in service. They're not really sure how. But if you think about it, if we're doing a bunch of project work, that's just going to be more and more service that's coming through the door, that's walking through the door. So I've seen a lot of 5, 6, 7 truck departments built entirely on responding to roof leaks and the reports that come in from the customer's consultants, from Home Depot's consultant or Lowe's consultant, something like that. And they see all this, but they're still not going out and grabbing the other stuff.

So what we see there is we really have to define our processes. In those departments we have a lot of things going on, and usually it's happening different ways, a little bit differently each time. And that's why we hear a lot of owners say, "Oh man, I got services. It's always a fire back there. They don't know what they're doing." No one's went through it said, these are the procedures set up. Okay, we have a leak call. This is exactly from the time the call comes in to the time the invoice goes out, this is how we try to do it each and every time. Are there exceptions? Of course there are exceptions. There are exceptions in the Chick-fil-A drive thru line every once in a while. So we have to go through and document our processes. What are the services we offer? What are the procedures we go through to carry out those services effectively? And who are the people that are assigned to each step of the procedure? And do we have the capacity to do all the steps in a timely manner?

Once we start doing that it's amazing how much smoother operations can be. And I've had a lot of customers call, we start working with them, they said, "We're not really concerned about sales right now because we have more work than we know what to do with, but we need to clean up operations." And we start cleaning up their operations and what happens? They start selling, because they're making it easier for the customer to buy. They're getting the turnaround time done. If I got more cars coming through my Chick-fil-A drive thru line because it's a smooth operation, I'm going to start selling more.

One of my bosses that me and you both know, he told me one time, he says, "Don't worry about how much you're selling each thing for, worry about how many things you're selling." So how many times can I get a customer on the call that needs me on their roof?

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's the key.

Tracey Donels: That's what I want to do. Because then more often it's going to be, "Hey, Heidi, my 600,000 square foot EPDM roofs in the parking lot, nobody's hurt, nothing's wrong, but I guess I need a new roof. Can you help me out with that by chance?" And I bet you'd be very happy to help him out.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Very happy, very happy. Wow. Okay. I want to bring this up. Contractors, as they are getting ready to do this, they can work with you and you will help them develop the KPIs, the SOPs, the operations, the sales. Talk to us a little bit about how contractors can get started with you and what they should be doing.

Tracey Donels: So obviously reach out to us, growroofservice.com info@growroofservice.com, we'll set up a consultation. And what we do is we need to learn, like anybody, we need to learn. So I actually just had a very first call with a customer today, and I just spent the entire time learning what was new since the last time we talked. Every sales process has a little bit of a timing to it, so I need to come in and I need to see and need to understand how everything works, who's doing what, what's the capacity? What's the software we're using? What do the proposals look like? We're going to try to understand everything, and then we're going to take a very EOS or traction approach to it. We're going to develop rocks and milestones. And I am not an EOS implementer by any means, but I have been through the system and there are definitely, I think things that every roofing owner should be taking from that system and using in their business. So we run it very, very similar to that. And we try to figure out, okay, well, what are the most important things we can do quickly to make the biggest gain on or return on investment? Sometimes it's money, sometimes it's quality, often it's time.

Often it's time. How can we do it a little bit easier, a little bit quicker to save us time? Because then if we have time, I can go do more important stuff and start working on our business and not necessarily so much in our business. But that's where I think our experience and our knowledge of taking companies from 0 trucks to 25 trucks or 10 to 20 or 1 to 5 over the course of a year. We've seen the issues all over the place, but we don't know all the answers, but we've seen five or six or seven things work. Two or four might be exactly what you need.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Don't recreate the wheel, it's already here. It's already here. It's all in great processes and goals and everything else.

So Tracey, thank you so much. I love this stuff, as you know and I'm so excited for the contractors out there who can get with you. Get with Tracey and his team who are just fantastic and really not only start, but if you already have one, take it to the next level. This is how it happens. So Tracey, thank you so much for being here today.

Tracey Donels: Thank you so much, Heidi and I hope you have a fantastic holiday season. I hope you're on your last trip of the year, hopefully.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes, I am. And Roofing Road Trips, here we are. But yeah, looking forward to the holidays and really the gift that you should all be giving yourselves is a call and a consultation with Tracey going into 2025. It will make all the difference for your business. He knows his stuff and his team knows what's going on. So please check out the Service First Solutions directory on Roofer's Coffee Shop. We've done a couple other podcasts and there's some great articles, so there's a lot of information that you can take and then makes it really simple for you to get a hold of them too. And your website again, Tracey, just so everybody has it.

Tracey Donels: Growroofservice.com. Our website is exactly what we do.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love it. I love it. Well, thank you again. Have a great holiday.

Tracey Donels: Thank you so much, Heidi.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Thank you. And thank you all for listening. Please check out the directory for Service First Solutions. You can get all the information you want there. Also, check out all of our podcasts under the read list and watch navigation on Roofer's Coffee Shop, under Roofing Road Trips or on your favorite podcast channel. Be sure to subscribe and hit those notifications so you don't miss a single episode. We will be seeing you again soon on Roofing Road Trips.

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