S2:E3 Coffee Conversations with Alison LaValley and Trent Cotney - PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of an interview with Trent Cotney with Cotney Construction Law and Alison LaValley with the NRCA. You can read the interview below or listen to the conversation here.

Heidi Ellsworth: Good morning, and welcome to Coffee Conversations. My name is Heidi Ellsworth, and I'm a partner with RoofersCoffeeShop® (RCS). We are so happy to bring Coffee Conversations every other week to all of you out there. And today I am really excited, because I have two of my dearest friends, and definite thought leaders in the roofing industry here today. I'd like to introduce Trent Cotney, with Cotney Construction Law, and Alison LaValley with the National Roofing Contractors Association (NRCA). Thank you both for being here today.

Trent Cotney: Thank you.

Alison LaValley: Thanks for having us, Heidi.

Heidi Ellsworth: This is great. And we're here to talk about something pretty cool. One of the premier events that we have in roofing, and that is the Decks to Dockets Virtual Legal Conference. So we're going to talk about that today and prime the pond, get a little bit of a tease on why you should be attending that conference for your business and how important it is. But we're also going to just talk about overall legal issues, and also talk about what the NRCA is offering on legal, and along with all the associations out there. Trent is very involved in many of the associations across the country, and continually bringing legal resources in proactive risk management to the industry. So we're going to start out with some introductions. Trent, I would love it if you could introduce yourself, talk a little bit about Cotney Construction Law, and what you've been seeing going on lately.

Trent Cotney: Sure. Well, I'm Trent Cotney, I'm C.E.O. of Cotney Construction Law and General Counsel of NRCA, and our company represents the industry. We've got 20 offices across the U.S. and Canada, and I'm very excited to be here. It's always a pleasure to be able to talk to you Heidi and Alison as well. I'm really excited about this conference. This is something that I think is very unique, and I'm very proud of what NRCA has done to pivot, and really put this on and make it such a big event. So now more than ever, it's very important to attend these types of conferences, because literally every single day the law is changing. It's crazy. It's absolutely crazy. We were talking about it before this started. With COVID-19 you've got to stay up to date on things. So, this is the time to attend these conferences. This is the time where if you want to know exactly what the latest is on contract safety, HR or whatever it might be, you've got to attend.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Right now there's so much risk to every business out there, when it comes to what's happening with COVID, what's happening across the board with safety. Now's the time to get ahead of it. And so, this conference really could be a game changer for businesses. Alison, this isn't the first year we've had this conference, and you've been doing this for a long time. So maybe if you could introduce yourself again, and tell us a little bit NRCA Legal, and then can you share some history on this conference, and where it's come from?

Alison LaValley: Sure, I'd be glad to thank you, Heidi for having me. Trent, it's good to see you and work with you as always. I'm Alison LaValley, I have been with the NRCA a little over 30 years. And I've been involved with the Legal Resource Center since the early 2000s. And as Heidi mentioned, and Trent have been talking about the conference, this is actually, although it's going to be our first virtual setting for this conference, this is actually the 41st time we've put on this conference. Typically it's every fall over the course of two and a half to three days, and hopefully we're planning to regroup next year in October in Austin, if it all works out. But as Trent mentioned, and as we talked about right before this, I think what's interesting, is how pulling this together our outreach to people that maybe didn't know as much about NRCA legal or the conference. The things that we're going to be able to do, and the same kind of interaction. We're keeping it to three days, but we're able to put on three sessions each day, and really connect with people, and still do Q&A and chat. So as much as you can do over Zoom or trying to do. It's interactive because I know we're all missing that piece, that connection of getting together at meetings, whether it be a board meeting or a conference. So I know that connection is important. And Zoom has its limitations, yet the topics that we're presenting, Trent and many of his team members are doing. And we're able to talk about contracts, which of course are so important probably across the board. But Trent's also is going to be talking, and I'm sure he'll get more into it, but he's addressing a topic on sub-contractors. So again, that applies to me. Something we're bringing to the table this year, is about things you need to look at in your residential contracts. So if you're a residential contractor, there's a program that's just for you. And one that I'm excited about that two of Trent's team members are doing is we're going to be talking about diversity, and all our issues and how that applies to diversity. And EEOC and things you need to be aware of in your business from that perspective. We've got two [inaudible 00:05:19] that one up. So a lot of variety. We've got a lot of people registered for all nine, which has been great. But if you're interested in just one or two, anything you might need, and again, very flexible [inaudible 00:05:36]. So I'm excited.

Heidi Ellsworth: And you know what? Yeah, there we go. We were having just a little bit of an echo there, but I think we've got that fixed, and we're good. Thank you, I see everybody coming on, I see all these great names of people out there who are learning about this. So don't forget, and I think I may have forgotten to mention this at the beginning, but put your questions in. So this is all about Q&A. We're going to talk a little bit upfront, and just work through some of the speakers, and what's happening to give you a little bit of perspective. But please ask your questions, raise your hand. We've got Miss Megan Ellsworth in the background who will be bringing people on, helping us with echos and everything else, so she keeps us straight. And so as you ask your questions or raise your hand, she'll be chatting with you, and getting you on the show live. But before we go there, let's start with a little bit about the speakers, and what's going to be there. So Trent, maybe can you give us an overview of the topics, the speakers, and also just how this affects people's business?

Trent Cotney: Sure. We've got a tremendous lineup, and both Alison and everybody in NRCA as well as the NRCA legal committee with George Patterson at the head, we've come up with some great topics and really, really excited about it. As Alison mentioned, we've got a handful that we're doing, I'm going to be talking about residential contracts, and Tray Batcher, who's one of our attorneys here, we're going to talk about the key things that you need in there. So if you're a residential contractor, and you want to know how to navigate scope of work, how to navigate warranty issues, all that kind of stuff, must see. We've got as Alison mentioned, one on how to use subcontractors. The legal issues that are related to that, everything from safety, to HR related issues, wage and hour issues, all that type of stuff. Our diversity program, I think is going to be very interesting because both of the lawyers that are speaking from our firm, are general contractors. They are general contractor, licensed lawyers here in Florida. So they get to bring the real world perspective of actually being a minority contractor. And talking to listeners about what that's like, how to get involved, what to do. But I'm excited about a lot of other presentations that we've got going on. In particular Steven Phillips is doing a couple of great courses. One on contracts, which I enjoy every year, and then also the update on court cases. And obviously in that field, I love to hear what he's got to say. I'm very excited about being able to hear him talk. Phillips, he was doing a great webinar on Restrictive Covenants. For those of you that don't know, now it's so hard to find skilled labor. It's the biggest issue. So a lot of times you need these types of agreements. So he's going to hit all that, it's going to be great. And then of course, Mark Graham and Steven Phillips are going to do a great presentation on some liability issues, combining technical and the contract side. We just got a great lineup, Heidi, I'll be honest with you. When I'm looking at this, and I've got to nerd out a little bit, obviously it's illegal. But it's something that I'm just really about. I think the whole team has put something great together, and at the price point, you've got to sign up. It's just a no brainer.

Heidi Ellsworth: I've been lucky enough to sit in a number of these meetings at NRCA with Alison and you, and listen to the committee. And there's so many contractors who make things happen, that behind the scenes, and I think a lot of people, George Patterson who leads this committee, and I think he's going to be coming on here pretty soon. But the thing that I love is that case law. Maybe talk just a little bit more about that. Because I've heard contractors just rave about that. And for me I'm like "Really?" But it's just really interesting. So maybe tell us just a little bit more about that, Trent.

Trent Cotney: Oh, absolutely. So Stephen Phillips puts on a great presentation every year, and usually it's at the end of the program. And what he does is he goes through all of the cases that involve roofing. So it's interesting from a standpoint, not only from a legal standpoint, but to understand the facts in those cases, because then you can take it to your own real world business model, and you can say, "Okay, here's some way that somebody got in trouble, I don't want to do that." And that's what's interesting. And it's current content, and it's fresh, and he always does a fantastic job, so I'm really looking forward to that one.

Heidi Ellsworth: That is cool. Alison, what have you heard over the years on just the contractors? I know there's just so many things they get out of this conference, and I've heard such rave reviews. What are some of the key points? Because I know you were always about, "Take something home." What do contractors take home from this conference?

Alison LaValley: Well, a couple of things that I want to mention too. Even if you're not on contract, or in the design field and so forth, and anybody, we have [CEUs 00:10:40] available too. So I just want to mention that, the AIAA learning units, and also Health Safety, and Welfare credits, and the [ABAC 00:10:48] also. So that's a takeaway for some. I know a lot of people come specifically for that. And as Trent mentioned, now especially with how times have changed, it's important to stay updated, and keep those things current, so one takeaway. But a lot of times, especially with those contract programs that Trent speaks of, whether it be the subcontract program, the residential one, or there's one that Stephen Phillips does specifically, in a lot of those presentations are the actual contract provision. They tell you, "Here's the contract provision, how to insert it, go back to your office." And why you need to do that, to limit your liability. Again, prevent it from happening, or if you've been in trouble before, stop it from happening again. So, between three programs that are doing specifically about contracts and contract provisions, and things you need to be aware of, the time and money that can save you, staying out of trouble, maybe not having to call Trent on the side, because now I am in trouble. Again, at the Legal Resource Center, I think what we've always tried to do, is just be an advocate from a preventative measure. If you get involved with our education or read, we have a legal e-newsletter that goes out once a month and there's articles, and Trent always includes a contract provision, and we have publications of contract provisions. So if you use a lot of these resources upfront, and take the time, I know everyone's busy, but if you use a lot of it, you can really, really limit your liability. And hopefully that of course would affect your bottom line positively. So again, really preventative, and just trying to be proactive in keeping everybody safe ultimately, and out of illegal trouble.

Heidi Ellsworth: And out of legal trouble. I think that's the key. If you can do stuff ahead of time, it's [inaudible 00:12:45] money, stress, your employees, everything it's so much better. And in fact, we have somebody who's going to come on right now. Sherri Miles is going to come on. Megan, I think you're bringing her up. And she, Alison, just sent a chat saying... Hey, Sherri hello?

Alison LaValley: Hey Sherri?

Trent Cotney: Hey?

Sherri: Had to unmute myself. Good morning all?

Trent Cotney: Morning.

Heidi Ellsworth: Good morning. I love it. Thank you for the chat, getting into the question box, and I'm just so happy you're here. Can you tell us a little bit about some of the takeaways, and how has NRC Legal and conference, how has that helped your business? Introduce yourself first. Tell us where you're from.

Sherri: Oh, sure. I'm Sherri Miles, I'm with J.D. Miles & Sons Roofing in Chesapeake, Virginia, on the coast. As to Allison's point, we as a company have been coming to this Legal Resource Center for years, maybe since the inception, I can't remember. We haven't missed any at all between Dudley, my father and I. It is by far one of the best things we have ever done for our company. The money that we have spent coming to the event, we have made over, and over again, in preventing ourselves from getting in trouble. Being proactive with our contracts, either with a general contractor or an owner. Labor law, we have learned a ton about what to do. Best practices and how to keep ourselves on the straight and narrow, as labor law changes from year to year. One of the things that we also have learned, and have kept our finger on the pulse on what's happening as far as material, manufacturing, [functions 00:14:45], or events that are happening. This conference is by far one of the best things that NRCA presents each year. Of course my favorite part has always been getting to know other contractors, and talking at the conference. So I'm sad to not have that happen, but I am super excited that you guys have gone forward, and made this new and different. And I'm really looking forward to having those, I think there are an hour, an hour and a half sessions each, for the three days, three sessions hour to hour and a half each. I think that will help in really get engagement, keep my focus. I know we have all had Zoom fatigue and webinar fatigue, so kudos to the team for making the actual event super focused and contractor friendly, as we all cannot sit for so long. And the lineup is absolutely amazing. I am excited for each program. And am excited to have all my notes from years past, including in this year. So thank you all for doing it.

Trent Cotney: Thanks Sherri.

Heidi Ellsworth: You know what Sherri,-

Alison LaValley: Thanks Sherri.

Heidi Ellsworth: ... Are you planning on bringing more of your team, because it's virtual?

Sherri: Yes.

Alison LaValley: Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth: I think that's a real key, and Alison maybe you can share that, that you have people coming who have never been able to come before, right?

Alison LaValley: Right.

Heidi Ellsworth: To this year.

Alison LaValley: Yeah. And we were talking about this before with Sherri about the connection. Missing that connection, meeting people year-to-year, and greeting new people because usually even in-person, at least 20 to 25% of our attendees are new every year. So that's really great, because we try to then hook them up with someone that's experienced and been there, and mentor them along or answer any questions. But what I was saying prior was, we've had to pivot and do this virtually, and although we're missing the connection, when I look at the attendee list and the people that are already registered, half of them aren't those that typically attend and engage. So I think we're able to reach more people. Because again the platform is convenient to your point. We did try to keep them to an hour, the last session of the day, is an hour and a half. And again, when I talk about times, I just want to make sure everybody realize I'm talking about Central time. So, they start 10:00 Central, and they go to 11:00. And then we go again at noon till 1:00 Central. And 2:00 to 3:30 Central. So the last program on all three days or Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday of next week is an hour and a half. It's a little bit longer for maybe some more discussions and so forth. But-

Heidi Ellsworth: Thank you for clarifying that Central, because I have everything scheduled on Eastern time. So I need to go change that right now.

Alison LaValley: Right. Well, it should have happened two ways. In your calendar when we sent you the Zoom links and registered you, Zoom will adjust for the time. So maybe in your head you're on Eastern time, but your calendar is probably on the right time. But I just want to point that out because being in Chicago, I just talk about, "Oh, it's 10 o'clock," like it's nothing. But it's not, because to Heidi that of course would be a different time than to all of you, and Trent who's presenting, who's on East Coast time too.

Heidi Ellsworth: That is the Zoom dilemma. Everybody has to. When you're traveling to Chicago you know you're going to be on Central time, but it's a little bit different now, everybody trying to figure that out. So Sherri, thank you so much. And we look forward to seeing you on the Zoom at the conference. We do have on George Patterson also, Chair of the NRCA Legal. Megan's going to bring him on up, and he has some comments and questions for both of you also. Good morning, George?

George: [inaudible 00:18:59]

Alison LaValley: Hi George?

Heidi Ellsworth: George, you need to go off mute, or Megan you can help him.

Megan: Yes George, you're muted on your end.

George: No I'm not.

Megan: Great. There you are.

George: All right. Well, I'll say what I said. Good morning, everybody. The morning, Allison, Trent, Heidi. Thank you for having me on. I've been to a few of these conferences over the last few years, and you walk into the conference or sit down, and the first thing you want to do is give up. Because the topics that are discussed are so scary, but by the end of it, with Trent or Steven or any of the other speakers speaking, you come out of there saying, "All right, I do have a chance." Now, it may seem bad for some of the things, legally contractually that are going on, but by the end of the day, you're sitting there and saying, "Okay, if I follow what these speakers are saying," I've got my big notebook that I have from Alison, and reading through, it's like, "Okay, take a breath, when I get out of this, I still have a chance." And that's one of the greatest things about the three-day conference over the years, and I'm sure it'll be the same this year. I'm looking over the topics, and we had many meetings discussing it, and some of them are scary, some of them are not. It's like, "Okay. I know the topics. I haven't heard any discussions about them. So I'm already scared getting into it." But Trent talks me off the cliff about every three or four days, so I appreciate that. But my question would be, as we look at this, hopefully next year we can go to Austin again and we made the decision to do this virtually. We pared it down, I think from 11:00 normally Alison to 9:00 this year. And when we signed up for this, and I've signed up for all of them, what is going to happen afterwards? If we sign up, can we get video later? Can we get more information back? Can we send emails of questions, if we can't actually listen to all nine sessions, and get information later?

Alison LaValley: Yes, definitely a great question. So first of all, all nine sessions will be recorded. So if you registered, anyone that registered will automatically get a recording. And I'm going to ensure that everybody gets the PowerPoints too, so that not everybody has to have their camera out, taking pictures of the screen, although you're free to do that too. But those recordings also will be available till the end of calendar year at a minimum. For even people that miss the conference, they can then buy the recording, and the PowerPoint that would go along with it. So that will be available. And again, if you're registered, those will be coming to you automatically. As far as questions George, typically what we try to do is every speaker at the end, usually their last slide, from what I've seen from the PowerPoints has their information. And we're encouraging attendees to reach out to, whether it'd be Trent, or I know with Mark Graham, a lot of times, when he's talking about his emerging technical issues, and talk about some of them being really scary. People need some follow-up, and need to be talked down sometimes off a ledge with him too, because he prints on so much good information. So his information is there, and it's usually best to connect with the speaker. Or anybody can of course come directly to me, and then I'll make the connection.

George: Okay. The other thing is that, as I sit here and having to be blessed to be the Chair of this committee this year, is the input that everybody has on the topics we have, and going forward, and like I said, hopefully we can meet up. I know we're not going to end up having the Legal Conference this year, is that correct, Alison and Trent?

Alison LaValley: Right.

Trent Cotney: Yeah.

Alison LaValley: Right. But we will not be meeting. Thanks for bringing that up George. Last year, or actually earlier this year, we got it right in before the pandemic hit. We started a one day conference called Legal Com. And we did that because a lot of times people couldn't attend, or get away for the three days. We were trying to make it easier, jam-packed in one day, a little less expensive. We did it here in Chicago, and we were going to try to keep up with it once a year, and maybe twice a year. But because of the uncertainty with pandemic, and so much moving in the first quarter of 2021, and then we've got IRE that moved, we've got Roofing Day coming up, we decided to close holding the Legal Com for right now, and reevaluate depending especially how things go with the industry and the world, and when that might fit in next year. But we will, fingers crossed, be meeting in Austin next October 14 to 16, something we were hoping to do now, but we have rebooked in Austin next Fall.

Heidi Ellsworth: I was just to saying, George you and your committee, you're also doing ongoing webinars, aren't you? With Trent and getting that out there? But I wanted to make sure to mention that.

George: And one of the things I want to say, yes there is a monthly webinar, but this is the best-kept secret in the NRCA. This is part of your membership, you can get all of the contract revisions, and there's so many things on the Legal web page. Please go to it, spend some time on it. Look through it, you will find something every single day that'll help you out. And if you haven't signed up for the three day, please do, it's well worth the money. And I guarantee that when you come out of it, you will know something that you didn't know going into it. And it'll save your company as Sherri said earlier too.

Alison LaValley: Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth: That is cool. George, before you go, can you do me a favor? Can you introduce yourself, your company, where you're located, and just a little bit about you? And how are things going in Chicago?

George: I'm George Patterson, I'm the President Bennett & Brosseau Roofing, in Romeoville, Illinois. About 30 minutes if I'm driving slow from the NRCA headquarters. 20 minutes if I'm driving fast. I am the committee chair this year of the NRCA Legal. And I have so much enthusiasm and love for this committee. As I have said, it will save your company money just by listening to one session. I've taken a lot of what everybody's said over the years, and put it into practice in our company, and it has. I actually saved us dollars and cents. And if I haven't spoken to Trent every two or three days, then I must be on vacation or something.

Alison LaValley: And Heidi, I just want to point Heidi for when George talks about everything, and the best-kept secret. First of all, if you go nrca.net\legal, the whole legal page comes up with multiple links, so you can find everything there. But if you want a great summary of what actually is ongoing on, just quickly summarized, if you look in the September issue of Professional Roofing magazine, Reid's column, Reid often has guest contributors. And he turns his column this month over to George. And so George provided insight about being able to talk to Trent Legal Counsel. "When you start talking about 30 minutes or more, if you have a problem, you can talk to Trent and his team." Again, he mentioned the contract provisions. There's all the education. There's a database on that legal website that is 400 plus cases, articles, contract provisions, anything you could want, and it's all in a search database. So I won't give everything away, but George covered all in that summary. And again, that's in the September issue. So if someone wants to take a look, it's a great summary.

Heidi Ellsworth: That's great. And that's online too, the survey notes. Go ahead, Trent.

Alison LaValley: Yes.

Trent Cotney: Yeah, I agree. Absolutely, it's a huge resource. And one of the things that we're trying to continue to do now, is to make sure that when the legal newsletter comes out, that we're at least including one contract provision, and then two key topics that we can continue to update and add to that library.

Heidi Ellsworth: Wow. Well, George, thank you for everything you do for the NRCA, for the NRCA Legal, and just being such a great example of everything, in professional roofing respect. It's just what comes to my mind, over and over. So thank you for being on the show today, and I think one of your other committee members, actually John Embow, is raising his hand out there and is saying, "Hey, I've got a question and a few comments." So Megan, should we bring John on?

Alison LaValley: Thanks George.

Heidi Ellsworth: Thanks George.

Trent Cotney: Thank you George, see you.

Speaker 11: John, you're unmuted.

Heidi Ellsworth: Good morning John?

John Embow: Morning. How are you doing?

Trent Cotney: Hey John?

John Embow: [inaudible 00:28:13] a long time here, Alison, Trent and Heidi, thank you very much for bringing me on, and everybody else. My name is John Embow, I'm a roofing contractor out of Buffalo, New York. And just to echo some of the previous comments, I've been to the previous four NRCA Legal Conferences. And like most people, my biggest challenge is finding enough time in the day to get to all the things that are coming and grabbing your attention. I had heard about the Legal Conference previously, and when I finally made the decision to attend, I would say I still consider it probably the most valuable time spent in this industry of all the conferences I attend. The access you have to the leaders, and experts in the industry like Trent, like all of the attorneys, and even having Mark Graham, available as well. And I think some people might be misled to think, "Oh, it's legal, I don't need to think about that." Well, it's so much of what we do, and all the exposures we have are also related [inaudible 00:29:39]. The elements of roofing and technical aspects, and the ability of these folks to translate that to how it deals with all of us on a daily basis is unique and incredibly valuable. And like Sherri said, I find myself coming out of this thing with page after page of notes, and just then bringing it back to our business. And one other thing is great is the content that's has always been with this conference. Getting the opportunity to network with people here. And although the format is different, I think this provides a unique opportunity. One, to get to know people, and as we are all operating more virtually, having attended the conference and then reaching out afterwards, I'm sure everyone at Trent's firm would be more than happy to respond, and follow-up with the questions that you have. And then as you pointed out, what's really unique about this and having [inaudible 00:30:42] over Zoom is I have the same sentiment. I've got certain of the individual seminars that appeal to unique people in our organization where before, it would just be myself or maybe one other individual in our company going to the conference. Now I can get everybody here addressing something specific that they most need to hear. So I think this is a great opportunity to step into this, and experience for the first time. And I can assure you will not regret the time spent, and like everybody else that chimed in, this is something you'll make a priority in what you're doing.

Heidi Ellsworth: John, I just think that's so, thank you so much. And a quick question to you is, as you're looking at going into this Legal Conference and watching it, and everything that's going on with COVID, and up in your area, what are some of the things that you're hoping to find that might help you with safety, OSHA, COVID all of the crazy changes that are going on every day? What are some of the questions you're going to be coming to the conference with?

John Embow: Well, right off the bat, the thing that got my attention as I'm looking at the agenda, is the first seminar you have regarding crisis management in COVID. Because we are deemed essential, at least with a lot of the projects we had here, we've been working in some capacity all along. But it's been uncharted territory and we're plowing ahead. But I'm still more concerned about not knowing the whole picture, and having exposures that aren't covered for us. So first and foremost, I think everybody's got to have a good handle on what you're doing to protect yourself, and see what sort of exposures you have. And then having heard some of these other seminars tend to be revisit annually, particularly with contract provisions, with technical issues, these things, each year, even though it's really the same title, the content is 100% different, because they're changing on a regular basis. So getting back up to speed, because we have all I think been operating more in a vacuum than we're used to. So having an opportunity to get in front, and get more exposure to things that have changed since the last time we had the conference, it's something I'm really looking forward to.

Heidi Ellsworth: That is great. That is awesome. Any questions for Trent or Alison, before we move on to our next contractor who's waiting out there?

John Embow: No. I wish again, we'd be seeing each other in-person, but selfishly, I am glad we can leverage having more people attend virtually. So I'm really excited honestly have this format issue.

Heidi Ellsworth: John, I love your office. Thank you for joining us. We're on totally opposite sides of the world, but we're all together so it's cool.

Alison LaValley: Thank you.

John Embow: I agree, there's great things happening. All right. Thank you.

Heidi Ellsworth: Thank you.

Trent Cotney: Thank you.

Heidi Ellsworth: Trent, while we're bringing on our next person who we all know, Wendy Marvin is going to be joining with a question, Trent, what are you seeing and hearing when you're thinking about where going with all this COVID, and legal?

Trent Cotney: I think John hit the nail on the head. It's on the tip of every roofing contractors tongue right now, and that is trying to navigate the world that we live in. And there are so many different issues that come up with COVID-19. Everything from contracts, to how to manage CDC and safety guidelines, and the different messaging that we hear out there. The impact of some of the new HR statutes that have come out, and how you deal with employees return-to-work issues. And then overall legal liability. What is the potential liability that roofing contractor has for getting sued for the intentional, or unintentional exposure of COVID-19? So, one of the things that I really wanted to do in that webinar, was to focus on where we are right now. Obviously here's been a storied history of legal issues with COVID-19 starting from February, March all the way until now. I'm focusing on the absolute critical issues right now, so if you attend that webinar, you're going to have a very, very good framework of what to do with all those key issues.

Heidi Ellsworth: And it's changing daily, right?

Trent Cotney: Absolutely.

Heidi Ellsworth: I'm just like one day you have to do this-

Alison LaValley: It's a tragedy.

Heidi Ellsworth: ... The next you have to [crosstalk 00:35:31].

Alison LaValley: [crosstalk 00:35:31] it is not as [crosstalk 00:35:32].

Trent Cotney: Yeah. Look, I guarantee you in our office, there's probably some breaking news thing that we got to jump on immediately.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes. I know.

Alison LaValley: It's been so busy.

Trent Cotney: Right.

Heidi Ellsworth: It's crazy. Well, we do have a question and we have a West Coast question coming up. Wendy, are you there? Maybe? Yes.

Wendy: I was unmuting and unclicking and trying to get... Hey Trent? Morning Alison, hey Heidi?

Trent Cotney: Hey Wendy. How are you doing?

Alison LaValley: Hi Wendy?

Heidi Ellsworth: Hey.

Wendy: Yes. It's dark out Heidi and [inaudible 00:36:06] window, I just wanted to point out. I was making coffee with you all in the kitchen a few minutes ago. I was curious about the regional differences, as we start to talk about all the different types of legal things. I think one of the things that Trent has done exceptionally well in the legal world is to carve out my piece of Washington State, and the legal needs that I have. So I was curious about that at the NRCA level, because I have used NRCA as a reference library for 10 years. I loved it. And I cannot believe that I've never been to this event. So I want to say I'm really excited, this is my first year. And then the second question I have for you guys is just, Trent had done an amazing job with us when I went from my two-page little, "Hey sign here, we love you, you can work with us," contract to my eight-page, "Holy crap, I've outlined everything." And, what was really neat about the conversation that we had was I said, "Trent, what can I do with this?" And he said, "Wendy what's your risk factor? What are your risk tolerance levels for this level?" So 13 years in business, I've got residential, and I don't really have a huge risk factor for my small residential market. Now, I can tell you, I just recently was certified as a women-owned business for government contracting, and I have 35-page contract that we haven't even started on yet. But the regional differences, and then just talking about the risk factor. Because I know you had another caller mention, this is scary for people who are gone from nothing to, Mach Five with their hair on fire, and not it hasn't been like that for a while. But how do we deal with all those different levels of things going on out there?

Trent Cotney: I can probably start off and say with regard to the different regional and State variances, one of the things that I try to do in the seminars that I'm speaking at is to make sure that I am highlighting key differences. And obviously we can't talk about, 50 States, but there are certain key differences. Wendy, you know that OSHA in Washington OSHA, there are some nuances that is even worse than what Federal OSHA has to offer. And there are some very specific laws in the Pacific Northwest, California. California has a new law every week. So it's the kind of thing where you really have to stay on it. That's one of the things I want to do, is highlight some of those differences. And obviously if there's a specific question about a specific State, reach out. As part of the member benefit, don't forget you get 30 minutes free a month as a member. So if you've got a specific question about a state and you're listening, let's say you're from Arkansas, or you're from New York, or wherever you're from, give us a call and we're happy to guide you through it. On the residential contractor issue, and on that webinar in particular, what I wanted to do, what [Trey 00:39:17] I wanted to do was take a different approach. Because the way that a residential contractor looks at contracts, is much different than how a commercial contractor looks at one. And you have to combine legal with business. And I always tell everybody that if you did everything I told you to, you've got a business. So the goal is to make sure that you focused on the key issues, that you're keeping that contract as small as you can so you're not scaring the customer, but if you're also protecting yourself. And one of the things that I'm really going to highlight in this, it's not just the key contract provisions, but the logistics. What really goes on behind the scenes. And because most of the people that work at our firm, have worked in construction. A lot of them residential construction, including Trey who's still speaking with me, we are going to give you how it really is. And this is not just stuff we learned in a book, this is real world. So that's what I'm really excited about. And Wendy, I think you hit the nail on the head, I think that's what listeners should really pay attention to.

Alison LaValley: And I'll add to that. We're fortunate Wendy and you know, because you work with Trent, that because of the expertise he and his team, I think he said he's licensed in 20 States, he's spreading out, he's now actually another resource and voice for us at the national level. Because as you can imagine at NRCA at the national level, just being in Chicago, the things that the CRCA goes through in Chicago with ordinances just in our city, is a whole other story. And that's just the city. And then I know, from working with Tracy from the Washington affiliate, all the things that were going on through this whole time, through the pandemic and what you were dealing with to remain essential in your State. And then I heard about it in Pennsylvania. And I knew what was going on in Florida, in New York. And the differences, I knew they were a lot, but not only just for COVID, but then we've got him on our technical end. And when you hear Mark talk about things on a committee level, we can't begin to know everything. A lot of things going on in out West, and how you apply roofing and certain things with tile and whatever, we don't necessarily always experience in the Midwest, or you might not in the Northeast. And so to that end, we're collaborating with The Tile Roofing Institute. We're collaborating with SPRI. We're collaborating with the Metal Construction Association when it comes to metal things, and whether it be for metal manual, or roofing and waterproofing manual. So regionally, we are trying to be much more collaborative and partner. And as Reid Ribble our CEO likes to talk about, "Talk about everything with one voice. Go at it together, collectively. The knowledge is so much greater than what we can do alone." And on a legal side, as I mentioned, we're benefiting from Trent and his team, knowing that having discussions with you, then turns around and helps somebody else that's having that same issue. So again, bringing it all back to the table, it's helping us as a national organization with Trent, and with all these other organizations in their specialties, come back to NRCA, when we worked together, we all benefit.

Heidi Ellsworth: Wendy, I know you are very in tune regionally, being a board member on Western States, really believing in memberships. So can you, first of all, introduce yourself and your company, and just make sure that everybody knows you. I think everybody here already does, but let's just introduce you again. And then second of all, just a little bit about Western States that you're on the board there, and that how important membership is, with NRCA and NRCA Legal and these conferences. I would just love for you to share that.

Wendy: Yeah. So my name is Wendy Marvin. I'm the CEO and owner off Matrix Roofing & Home Solutions in Vancouver, Washington, just above Portland. And the memberships are... There is another level. So we've been members of NRCA for probably about six years now. And I just feel like there's a time as a smaller contractor, when you start to look outside of yourself. And some of them it's one year, some of them it's more, we've been in business 13 years. The strategic alliances that you have available to yourself right now, are paramount in the success of being able to pivot your business. This group NRCA, while it feels like it may not be as relevant to me, because oh they're in Chicago and I'm in the West coast and everything, it couldn't be further from the truth. Like I said, I haven't even been to the legal seminar, but I've used the NRC as a reference. I've reached out to people at events, I've met people. Western States, they've done a ton of things to try to help contractors. And your membership brings you free resources. Your membership, even if you can't afford a membership with Trent Cotney and his team, it'll bring you half an hour free. I had COVID knock on my door about two weeks ago. And when you're all planning and preparing, and we've been ahead of the game, Trent had papers in our hands, Washington was shut down for nonessential, one of the few in the United States. And so we pivoted differently than everybody else did in trying to have papers in our hands. And we were ahead of the game when my guys got pulled over by people, looking for this stuff with COVID, we had a legal letter that said, "We are active under this measure, this is what we're protecting, this is why." And I can tell you that everybody in the world right now is navigating this chaos in the best manner that they could. But even if my paper didn't have everything that it needed on that list, they're going to move on to the other 500 contractors that didn't have that paper. And that's what we've met at our job site inspections, the same thing. The reading on Tracy in Washington, has done an amazing job with being ahead of the game for us too. And so all of these collective resources have me more ready than I could be. Now, is it perfect, no. It's never going to be perfect. Like Trent said, we're trying to get on a moving freight train here, and it keeps going. Someday it's going to stop. But I feel like just by having those resources, being prepared, they don't do it for you. You still have to read and understand and do what you're doing. But I think that the absolute key to our business succeeding, and remaining in business during the nightmare time that we've had, has been our memberships. They're invaluable.

Heidi Ellsworth: That's what we hear all the time. So Alison, maybe you'd like to address that just real quick, because you don't have to be a member of NRCA to come to the conference. But after listening to Wendy...

Wendy: [crosstalk 00:46:16]

Alison LaValley: And I didn't even prepare to say that, no. And Wendy we appreciate and all of our members. And to Heidi's point, if you're listening and you're not a member of NRCA, we still want you involved. It's important because you know what, industry first. And being safe. And making sure you're educated. And so these conferences individually are $39 for members, and $49 for nonmembers. And if you bundle them all, all nine of them, it's one 195, 295, which actually is a 45% savings, but really reasonable when you count up the hours of education that you're going to get. Again, when it comes to membership, I've been at NRCA so long, that to me, it just makes so much sense just because we advocate. If legal isn't enough, then there's all the things we're doing in D.C., and all the technical and education and so forth, which I won't go into all of it now. But even if you can use, like Wendy said, one resource, or have that 30 minutes that you get a month with Trent. So that 30 minutes, what he tells you or provides you to Wendy's point, saves you or your company. Pandemic or no pandemic. It might be a contract or provision, that you can put in that saves you. It's not only money, how about stress, and headache, and liability down the line. That more than would pay for your membership. Or if you had to write that provision on your own, do you imagine what you'd have to pay somebody to do that? And so we've got all these resources. So if you can look at it in terms of that, and then involvement, and getting to know people, and talking to people like Wendy. Wendy calls us. Call us. That's what we're here. Talk to us. Call Mark Graham, call Trent Cotney. Call me, call Tom Shanahan, in our Risk Management Department, and spend some time talking about what's affecting your business. We can help you with that. That's what we're here for.

Wendy: We appreciate that. And I think you guys like Trent, just really quick Heidi, is that you guys aren't in it to make the money. You're in it to help our industry. And there's a lot of people out there right now that are trying to make a lot of money, and their advice is not as worthy as the things I can just find in writing on the NRC site, let alone the individual communications I can have with you guys. So thank you for that for being out there for us all right now, we need it.

Alison LaValley: Thank you Wendy. We wouldn't be here without all of you, and you're all so important to us. So thank you for everything that you do every day.

Heidi Ellsworth: Thank you, Wendy, and thanks for gearing up with me early.

Wendy: I can see the sun coming up in your window there Heidi. Little Mrs Sunshine. Take care you guys.

Heidi Ellsworth: Thank you.

Trent Cotney: Thank you.

Heidi Ellsworth: Well, this is great. If anybody has any questions, we probably have time for one more question. Let's just talk a little bit more about the NRCA Legal. I just think the website, what Wendy just talked about was just so key. So Trent, maybe you can start us off. How important is this, that contractors take this proactive stance, and use these resources?

Trent Cotney: Yeah, I think it's key. NRCAs position as the national association, and the legal committee itself, we act as the sheep dog for the industry. It's our role, our job to make sure that we are getting the news out there, that can keep people out of trouble. And our role has always been to be proactive rather than reactive. So what we have really tried to do, and Alison and George and the rest of the committee have just done a tremendous job on this, is to make sure that we're getting real world valuable content out there. And it's through a variety of different channels. So you get the newsletter, you get access to great information in there. You have the ongoing monthly webinars that we've been doing, on a variety of great topics. Obviously there's this conference. There're the articles that are on the Professional Roofing magazine. And you just hit them in all kinds of different ways. But there's just so many timely pieces of information. And when you combine that with what NRCA is doing in D.C. from an advocacy standpoint, what Tom Shanahan and Mark Graham are doing from both risk management, and a technical standpoint, it's really powerful. It's a powerful tool for your business. So if you are looking at this as a nonmember, obviously, regardless of whether you're paying the 139, or the increased price for the non-membership to get on this, it's a bargain at twice the price. I paid more for this microphone than the webinar. It's a no brainer. So what I would encourage, if you're a nonmember and you're attending these, and you like what you see, just recognize that there's a lot more where that came from. It is the perfect opportunity for you to dip your toe in the water, see what NRCA is all about, and we welcome you. Come talk to me, I'd love to tell you about what NRCA does. And I think it's just a huge opportunity for anybody that has maybe been scared to go before, or didn't know what it was about. See what it is, it's very easy. You just get on it, here you see what we're talking about, and then I think you'll be sold.

Heidi Ellsworth: That is so cool. Now we have one more person that's come on. we have J.J.. And Megan I think you're bringing them on.

Alison LaValley: He was having trouble connecting before.

Heidi Ellsworth: Oh, was he?

Megan: J.J. you should be able to unmute now.

J.J.: There I am.

Heidi Ellsworth: Oh, there you are. Good morning? Good morning J.J..?

J.J.: Thank you guys. Good morning? Glad to be here.

Heidi Ellsworth: Introduce yourself.

J.J.: It's great to be here. I appreciate it guys. A lot of great talk about NRCA Legal. I'll tell you, I've been to about a dozen meetings, and they've all been exceptional. So, I know that one thing that I would like to contribute is, one of the best impacts that that three days of meetings has had in my business, is essentially being able to review contracts and make changes. We average about 15 changes per contract. And we get those about every day of the week. We've had a few of them that we can't. But it's amazing that we've been able to implement that change in our business through NRCA Legal, working with people like Trent, and leaders in the industry that we contracts, and walk us through how to make those changes. NRCA legal, it's had a great impact on our business. So, I'm a big supporter, and love to sing the praises of NRCA Legal, and understand basically it's all about risk management. It's what business owners do, and this is what we do in our business. And it's not always about the falls, and the cuts, and the scratches, a lot of times it's just about what we sign, and what contracts, and where we put our name on those. A really big impact on our business.

Heidi Ellsworth: I think, J.J., can you do me a favor? Can you introduce yourself, your company-

J.J.: I can.

Heidi Ellsworth: ... And then, what your role is within NRCA too.

J.J.: Sure.

Heidi Ellsworth: I think you've done so much great work.

J.J.: Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. My name is J.J. Smithy. I am with Frost Roofing, in Wapakoneta, Ohio. I am the president here, with Frost Roofing, and we've been in family business since 1928. With NRCA, I've been on the board of directors since 2011. I've had the opportunity to work with the Exec. Committee. And right now, I chair a few committees, mostly a social media task force with NRCA.

Heidi Ellsworth: Very cool. Well, there's another legal issue right there, social media.

Alison LaValley: But he left out, which I won't let him get away with, he is also [crosstalk 00:54:44] of NRCA Legal.

J.J.: Yes. Thank you Alison.

Alison LaValley: And he [inaudible 00:54:49] group that year, not only for the conference, but under his leadership we put more education together. And also two publications that were currently in our market of publications and offerings that we have. So, J.J. really has done a lot. And before that he would have been involved in that group for three years, and then served as president, and then immediate former. So, very involved with us, in addition to leading us and leading the work that we [crosstalk 00:55:23]. I just don't want that to go unnoticed.

J.J.: Well, thank you.

Heidi Ellsworth: Thank you. .J., you'll be there, so you'll be talking to everybody on the Zoom, on the conference. And you know what, because we are getting down to the last minutes of this Coffee Conversation, Alison, can you share with us exactly what people should do, how to sign up, how to register. I know we talked about it earlier, but let's go through it all again. So everybody can hear exactly how to get involved, because after this hour I'm going, "Everyone should be there. This is really cool."

Alison LaValley: They should. Yes, I'm excited. So again, really easy, the best way to do it is to go to the website. It's, nrca.net\legalconference. And even if you just put legal in there, you'll end up going to the legal page, and it's all over the place. It's on the homepage of nrca.net. But again, nrca.net\legalconference. And one thing I just want to mention again, which I mentioned earlier, when we meet next week, it's Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, October 13th, to the 15th. We have three sessions each day. And when we talk about starting times, again, we're talking about Central time. So 10:00 a.m, noon, and then two o'clock. The first two are an hour each, the third one is an hour and a half, but again those are Central times. But when you register, we're doing everything on a Zoom platform, so when you register, we'll get you registered on the backend, we'll send you the Zoom links. And of course, when you go to those Zoom links, accept them for your calendar, and of course they'll change them to your Eastern time, Pacific, Mountain, wherever you are. It'll adjust for you. But I just want to point that out, because when we publish everything, it is showing everything in Central time. But on the website, you'll see all the speakers, like we've talked about, Trent and his team, and Steven and Mark and Phillip. And like I said, a lot of Trent's team members are speaking. Again, I think in the past, if you couldn't travel and you want to put the expense, or maybe we're even a little bit intimidated about coming, like Trent said, no loss here. It's a total win-win. It's inexpensive, it's easy, you can do it at home, at work. Try us out. And if you've been with us, thank you for coming back. But give it a try. Engage, you can still ask questions. We can still have a conversation as much as we can over Zoom, and we encourage that. And then we'll follow up with you, and like I said, every session will be recorded, everybody who registered will have access to that recording, and others can purchase it afterwards. And again, thank you. And a huge shout out to Trent and his team, for everything they're doing for not only this conference, but for NRCA Legal.

Heidi Ellsworth: Thank you, Alison, thank you for everything you've done. I think this is just going to be phenomenal. Trent, any last words?

Trent Cotney: Yeah. I'm just very proud of what NRCA has done here. Alison, George and the entire legal committee, we've really worked hard to make sure that we're getting timely webinars out. We've gotten a great format. I'm really excited. I haven't been this excited about an event in a very long time. I think the reason is because, I know what we've done here, I know what the other speakers have done, and it's just going to be a top-notch lineup of webinars at a very, very affordable price. So again, everybody should show up. It's a no brainer.

Heidi Ellsworth: I agree. And I want to thank both of you for being here today, for sharing this. For what you give back every single day to this industry, in helping contractors be proactive, and have successful businesses. Thank you so much.

Trent Cotney: Thank you Heidi.

Alison LaValley: Thank you for having us. There's not a better industry Heidi than this one.

Heidi Ellsworth: Nope.

Trent Cotney: [crosstalk 00:59:15].

Heidi Ellsworth: Roofing rocks.

Trent Cotney: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Heidi Ellsworth: So I want to also mention that all of this is on Roofer's Coffee Shop. So if you go to the NRCA legal directory, which is showing on the screen right now, you can see everyone who's speaking, all the classes, the times. You can hit the registration button. So, there are just so many ways to get to that registration page, you will be shocked. I also want to mention on Roofer's Coffee Shop, Cotney Construction Law and Trent, they have so many articles on there for us. They contribute monthly on influencers, NRCA contributes monthly with McKay, and Alison has been an influencer. So there's just this great information that can be found. So please visit the Roofer's Coffee Shop on the directories for NRCA, for Cotney Construction Law, and check out what they have there too. Next week, or actually in two weeks on October 22nd, we're going to have Will Lorenz. And if you don't know Will, he is amazing. And he is the president of the Roof Coating Manufacturers Association. And what we're going to be talking about in two weeks, is how roof coatings are disrupting the roofing industry. Because they really are. On how that changes your business, how it can differentiate. And really, how important that segment of our industry, roof coatings have become during COVID. So join us in two weeks. Thank you, Trent and Alison, and thank you all for getting up early for Coffee Conversations. We'll see you in two weeks. Thanks.

Trent Cotney: See you.

Alison LaValley: Bye. Thanks Heidi.