S1:E8 Stories From the Roof - PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of an interview with Mike Pickel You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast here.

Heidi Ellsworth: Hello, and welcome to the podcast series Stories From the Roof. This is one of our favorites here at Roofer's Coffee Shop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth and the interview today is going to be with one of our roofing influencers Mike Pickel of Texas Traditions out of Texas, which makes sense. But Mike has been working with us and he is awesome. And okay here we go, Georgetown, Texas and Texas Traditions has been in business for six years and as I said Mike is an influencer with us. Mike, welcome to the show.

Mike Pickel: Hey, thank you, Heidi. It's a pleasure to be here.

Heidi Ellsworth: It is so great to have you and you know these 12 questions that we're going to go through today to build the Stories From the Roof, your story has been around roofer's coffee shop for quite a while. Vicky Sharples came up with these questions and we love to ask you this. We like to find out more about our roofing contractors. So Mike, thank you so much for sharing your story.

Mike Pickel: Thank you. My pleasure.

Heidi Ellsworth: Okay, so here we go. We're going to start with the 12 questions and that first one which I just love this question. So Mike, who taught you to roof?

Mike Pickel: My dad taught me to roof. He asked if I wanted to roof a couple of his rent houses in the evenings while I was doing my regular job and I said, "Well, I don't know anything about roofing dad." And he said, "Well, it can't be that hard." And so I did and we got on our first roof and he and I were both sitting there reading the back of a package of shingles trying to figure out how to start the whole process. And so, we did the first roof and that didn't leak and so we figured we were on a roll and so we ended up doing two, three, four more and then neighbors started asking me to roof their houses and people at church and it just grew from there.

Heidi Ellsworth: Man I love it. I love how those, it's the American spirit, let's just go try it and do it. I love it. So from that what was the most valuable lesson, you learned about roofing?

Mike Pickel: Well, as I continued the process and running the business one of the first things I learned is don't tear off a roof if it's going to rain, that doesn't end well.

Heidi Ellsworth: That's so true.

Mike Pickel: So, all you have to do is replace one ceiling and realize yeah you need to watch the weather a little bit more and don't believe everything they tell you. And then, the other thing it's easy to be a shingler but it takes commitment to the trade to understand what a roof needs to protect the building for the life of the roof. It's not just about laying shingles but you've got to really understand what you're doing and how the flashing and how it all just interlaces together. So many when I first started dad and I up on the roof I'd lay a shingle, lay the other one over it and put a little caulk on it in a couple of places and you're good. It is so much more than that. So, and just continue to learn the craft. You never know it all. I've been doing construction for 42 years, you just never know at all.

Heidi Ellsworth: I love that. I love that. And I think that's so true because we're just constantly working on sharing the professionalism and the what we call roofing respect and it is a craft and we have craft men and women out there doing some amazing things so I love that answer that's very cool. Before we ask this next question tell us just a little bit about Texas Traditions. So everybody knows about your business and what you specialize in and give us just a little bit of an overview on that.

Mike Pickel: Well, Texas Traditions roofing started six years ago. We started out with a primary focus to do residential for the first year and then to branch into commercial construction very strategically. And six months after we started that plan went out the window because somebody I'd worked within the past asked if I would be willing to bid a commercial job. And we did that and won it and we've been pressing hard in residential and commercial ever since. Prior to this year, our commercial to residential ratio has always been in the 60, 40 range, 40, 60 it'd bounce back and forth. This year with the hailstorm that we've had it's going to be considerably more residential than commercial.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. And that weather keeps playing with us across the board although obviously for roofing it can also be very profitable and good. So, I've been lucky enough to know you since you started and we talked and met at a show and I know you started the Texas Traditions and your business has done just extraordinarily well. What is the most valuable lesson you learned about being in business?

Mike Pickel: You need to know where your cash is and where it's going and where it's coming from and it's three completely different pieces you need to pay attention to. It is real easy to go out of business when you're extremely busy like we are in this hailstorm because you can just get overextended to your creditors. And if you're not managing that collection component of it to keep refreshing the pot that's paying out you can get upside down so fast and I've heard of people going out of business that don't watch that that were sizable companies. So, it's probably first and foremost on what I didn't realize but you learn it real fast.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's for every business especially when you get into these moments of economic growth and then you're just like, "Yeah, go, go," and then all of sudden you're like, "Whoa, what are we doing?" So yeah, I totally get that. And what do you think the best thing you ever did for your business was?

Mike Pickel: I stopped trying to handle everything myself. We hired good people for a reason and it was just hard to let go of this or that but you can't manage the business if you're micromanaging what your people are supposed to be doing and plus it defeats them and their feeling of ability to have a role in the company. And so, when I got bashed over the head with a two by four and finally learned that one it has been freeing for everybody in my company and myself as well.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. A lot happier employees huh?

Mike Pickel: Oh yeah. Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth: That's what I find too, same thing. Well, this next question Vicky's been asking like I said for years and that boy I don't think it's ever been more relevant and this may take a little bit but what are your biggest concerns about being in business today?

Mike Pickel: For me it's probably not what you would expect. A lot of people are concerned about the COVID and just the economics and I mean to me economics is every day. Construction can fluctuate so fast. Every four years when it comes election time it fluctuates because people are concerned about the next president coming in. And it's just so much that that fluctuates in our industry of construction and roofing. My biggest concern is maintaining our company's reputation. I have to be concerned about that and am concerned about it every day because I am one client away from ruining my reputation. I'm a month away from having multiple clients complain about us and what we're doing or how we're doing it or how we treated them and you can't get that back. And so, it's what we focus on and we're not always successful but it's our focus is, that's my concern is losing that reputation.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah that's really good. That's really wise. I think that's so true because I think too in today's world there are things you can control and there's things you can't control. You really can control your own reputation and your own business and I think that is a nugget right there that everybody should be listening to, I love it. So you talked about this a little bit before about letting go so what, in one word just some trait in an employee for you?

Mike Pickel: Humility. I've tried to figure out ways to, how can you put customer service in one word or how can you put being conscious in one word and I never could get there but what does a client want? They want you to listen to them, they want to be heard and they want to know you care. And if all you're concerned about is your time, or running to the next client, or I'm running behind and I don't have time to be here and I need to move on, or your complaints not valid I just put myself over them and now they're not as important as they need to be. And so, when you have that humility to me that just seemed to wrap it up in a nutshell is you've got to focus on that client and it takes humility to do it.

Heidi Ellsworth: That is excellent. That is excellent because I agree 100% that we don't always listen enough in this world. In fact, we don't listen, we have to listen more and care about helping our customers and helping our employees and helping each other.

Mike Pickel: Yeah. Well, everybody thinks what they have to say is important and in everybody else's eyes it's not. It's just important to us so.

Heidi Ellsworth: Exactly, that's great. So, moving on to that bigger industry view on question number seven of 12 do you belong to any associations related to your business and if so tell us about that.

Mike Pickel: Yeah. When we started the very first year the first one we joined was Roofing Contractors Association of Texas. We wanted to find a place that we could learn. And you get a bunch of roofing contractors in a room and they're going to talk. Usually they're going to talk about how great they are. And so, you grab those nuggets, there's good stuff in some of what they're saying. And then when you can get a cup of coffee in them or a couple glasses of tea they loosen up and it's like, "Yeah, we really stink at that." And so, it's really nice to surround yourself with other contractors that are dealing with maybe not the same problem that I am but a problem I'm going to encounter down the road. So, that was our main focus, "Man, we've got to get into that one." And it's been great, we attend almost every year. We had to miss this one because of an incident. But then the second one we joined was the National Roofing Contractors Association. The classes they do every year is just phenomenal it's worth every penny that we spend on that. And then, you walk through the trade show and it's just so vast and massive. We just pick up nuggets. It's just a great association. Then we joined Better Business Bureau locally, we did that as soon as we could. I think we had to be in business a year before they'd let us in. And so, we work hard to maintain that every year. And then we joined another one, National Federation of Independent Business, a smaller, I don't know if that's the right word, small organization. But it's an organization focused on small businesses, that's what it is. And they do things at the legislative level, they keep us posted on things that are affecting small businesses. Yeah it's all four of those are great and we really enjoy being a part of all of them.

Heidi Ellsworth: That is great. And you know what there's another nugget is the small business, getting involved because sometimes I think Mike and it sounds like obviously the same you can learn things from outside of the roofing industry and bring it back that is just so valuable to your business.

Mike Pickel: Right. Well roofers, what do we talk about? Roofing. "I had this problem. I had that problem." Every small business has the same issues, employees, cashflow, insurance, lack of, rent. Yeah, you can learn a lot from other people if you just be quiet and listen.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. I love that. I love that. Okay. So we're going to go back. For question number eight we're going to do something, we're going to go back a little bit more about you but we would love to know the best boss you ever had taught you what?

Mike Pickel: It's not about me it's the client. Some things you don't want to confess on a podcast but I guess I might as well. I got fired from a job when I was a mere lad in high school and I couldn't tell you this guy's name but it has been the most profound lesson I've ever learned. And he fired me on the spot for not treating a client with a yes attitude. And I wasn't rude, of course a teenagers rude, right? But it was just, I'll never forget he pulled me in the back office and he said, "You're not going to understand it for a while but you're going to thank me for this and I'm going to let you go." And it was out the door, no discussion, done. And I'll tell you I wish I could find that guy just to thank him because that's the best thing I've ever learned and nothing has impacted my business more than learning that lesson. It's not about me it's about the client.

Heidi Ellsworth: I love that. I love that so much. You know what? You told us that story at the influencer breakfast this year at [inaudible 00:16:34] and I love that and I love the fact that you share it. Thank you for sharing that on this podcast again because that I just think is so important. And I think it also really says as bosses sometimes we have to do hard things to help people to really help them understand. And that was extreme but obviously you've carried it through your whole life so pretty powerful.

Mike Pickel: Yeah. It was what was needed and he was spot on yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth: I love it. So what makes you smile when you think about your job?

Mike Pickel: Knowing people trust us enough to allow us to serve their roofing needs every day in this community. I mean, we'll do a house and then they'll tell their neighbor and they'll tell their neighbor and you just you get a reputation and I love that.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah that's awesome.

Mike Pickel: It's just a joy to know you get to do that and people keep saying, "Hey, you need to check out these guys." It will give you a lot of pride.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah being someone trusted within the community and I mean what's more important than to protect your family with shelter so.

Mike Pickel: I mean, when insurance is paying it's one thing they just have to pay that deductible but if it's not an insurance replacement and they're having to shell out $15, $20, $30,000 out of their pocket and they're willing to tell you, "I trust you, go fix my house," and you do it and they're happy at the end of that that's just a great joy.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. That is awesome, very cool. So if you were going to do it all again what would you do differently?

Mike Pickel: I had to think about this one a long time. I heard there's a lot, it's a long laundry list, but I'm going to keep it to one because I thought this was the most important is we would get into social media immediately.

Heidi Ellsworth: Oh, great.

Mike Pickel: I didn't understand social media and I'll tell you Heidi I still don't get it. Why somebody wants to look at pictures and see what somebody if doing that we do as a roofer just blows my mind but they do. And it really helps boost your business, your name. They get to see some cool things that you get to do when you're posting pictures. And it just helps spread the word about you. And so, I would do that the first week and learn how to focus on it and make it happen because it's crazy.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah and this next generation they just know how to do it, they just know, they just know, they know how to do it and all these young entrepreneurs who are coming into the roofing industry and starting businesses they don't even think twice about it it's immediate from day one it's social media.

Mike Pickel: Yeah it's just their life and you get an old guy like me and it's like, "Why are you doing that?" [inaudible 00:20:11]

Heidi Ellsworth: And sometimes our privacy comes in we're like, "We don't want everybody to know what's going on."

Mike Pickel: Yeah that's right. Well so yeah, if you've got to hire somebody hire somebody young let me tell you. You can eliminate that learning curve all right there just give it to them.

Heidi Ellsworth: I love it. So speaking of the young people any tips for the new guy or gal starting out in roofing? What would you share with them?

Mike Pickel: Kind of what we talked about earlier is don't just be a roofer. There's shinglers out there all day long. Be a professional in the trade, look professional, act professional, talk professional, be professional. Don't try and sell a job in shorts and tennis shoes and set yourself apart. Find a way to be different than the other companies in your area. You don't have to come up with something new, there's thousands of roofing companies across the country on the internet. See what people are doing in other parts of the country and bring that into your area that's different than everybody else. Set yourself apart. Keep an eye on the books financially and know what they're telling you. If you don't understand it learn it. Money, you will go out of business so fast doing more roofs than you ever thought you could because you're not focused on watching where your money's going and where it's coming from.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah and is it profitable work you're doing.

Mike Pickel: That's right. That's right.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah that's so good. That is so excellent. And our number 12 question I think is probably more relevant than ever with all the craziness going on in the world but how do you stay motivated to keep moving forward?

Mike Pickel: I do two things. We go to the international roofing expo, the IRE every year and that gets me excited. I look forward to that event to one hear what the speakers have to say, what new something can I learn and then what new something can I bring to my business. What new thing is in the expo that I can do that other guys aren't doing in my town? What's that new gadget? What's that new gizmo? What's that thing that you could tell a client, "Yeah, we do this. Have you ever had anybody else tell you about that?" "No, I don't know anything about that." And so it's just to me that's exciting to be able to try and find some new gadget, gizmo or way to do roofing. And then we also joined a peer group with seven other roofing companies and we meet once a quarter and usually we'll travel to someone's office and they're all over the country, they're not in our roofing market. So, when we get together whatever Joe says and whatever Dave says and whatever Mark says, and I used aliases there so, whatever they say I'm not going to infringe on their business. And so, they'll share freely what they're doing in marketing or what their installers are doing or what their sales guy found or whatever. And it's refreshing to get with guys that'll just open up and talk about roofing and try and... None of us wants to see the other guy fail and so we'll say, "Watch out for that. Have you guys heard this from that source or this from that source?" And so you're talking about things that maybe I haven't run into yet that they just found and so now I know to dodge that bullet. And if we have a problem when we're not meeting any one of us can call any one of the other seven guys and say, "Hey, have you ever heard of this? What is this that's going on?" Or, "I've got this problem, how do you deal with that?" And that just motivates me to just keep going and just keep learning, make it better. It makes it exciting.

Heidi Ellsworth: I agree. I think that's excellent and what a great, another nugget of getting involved with a peer group because it does motivate you. I'm big with National Women in Roofing and these ladies motivate me every single day to do better, to be more involved and to run my business better. And so, I just think that's an awesome piece of advice for everyone listening, find your peer group, find people who can help you become better and be even more motivated for further success.

Mike Pickel: That's right.

Heidi Ellsworth: That is great. Well I have a favor, be sure to share with your peer group, all those aliases, about Roofer's Coffee Shop and maybe we can interview them someday about Stories From the Roof yeah.

Mike Pickel: I'll do that.

Heidi Ellsworth: We've got to spread the word.

Mike Pickel: That's right.

Heidi Ellsworth: Well, that's great. Well Mike, thank you. I love this. This is such wisdom and so much fun every time. Like I said I heard one of those stories before but there's so many things that you shared that I'd never heard before and I just think it's awesome that we can share this with the industry and really give people this idea. And so, if some folks out there who are listening to this maybe they want to touch base with you and network how do they find you?

Mike Pickel: They can find me at texastraditionsroofing.com. They can reach out on my email there and give me a call. I'd be glad to talk to anybody about anything roofing related. I don't do marriage counseling.

Heidi Ellsworth: That's good you're safe. You're a smart man, smart man. And I would also say for all of you listening if you want to hear some more wisdom, some more thoughts and ideas that Mike can share he writes for our influencers, the roofing influencers on RCS every month. So we have a lot, you just go to the influencer section of Roofer's Coffee Shop under news and you can see, I mean I think we have 10, 15 articles in there from Mike talking about these types of things, talking about the subject of the month and really trying to share his wisdom. So, along with this podcast you can also find him in the directory and on the Roofing Influencers site in the new section of Roofer's Coffee Shop. So Mike, thank you again so much for being here today.

Mike Pickel: Thank you Heidi. It's always a pleasure to visit with you.

Heidi Ellsworth: Always. I love it. And thank you everyone listening today, this series, Stories From the Roof, I just think is so inspirational and such a fun way to connect and really celebrate roofing respect. And if you didn't hear a lot of roofing respect from Mike today you weren't listening very well. So thank you so much for being here, thank you for listening and we'll see you next time with Stories From the Roof.