Revit Tech on the Roof With Hunter Panels! - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Luke Gower and Heather Thompson from Hunter Panels and Matt Wunch with Autodesk. You can read the interview below, listen to the podcast or watch the webinar.

Heidi Ellsworth: Good morning, and welcome to Coffee Conversations from Roofers Coffee Shop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth, and today we are here to talk about Rivet and them. I tell you what, this is a topic that I have just loved my whole career, talking to architects, talking to all the technical, Autodesk, you name it. And so Hunter Panels has brought the experts from Hunter Panels and also from Autodesk to talk to us about this great topic today. So Megan, we're going to go ahead and start going through those slides.

So thank you Hunter Panels so much for being our sponsor today. This is an amazing topic. Housekeeping-wise, as you all know, this will be available on-demand within 24 hours. So be sure to share that with all of your friends and all of your roofing professionals out there. This is an important topic to help grow your business. Also, the chat is open, so be sure to let us know. I saw Brian already come in. Good morning, Brian. Please let us know where you're located, what type of business you have. We'd love to know commercial, residential manufacturing. And be sure to make comments and ask questions all the way through this Coffee Conversations. So let's get started with our esteemed panel. First of all, I would like to welcome Luke Gower. Luke, welcome to Coffee Conversations.

Luke Gower: Good morning, Heidi. How are you doing this morning?

Heidi Ellsworth: I am doing great. If you could introduce yourself and also tell us a little bit about Hunter Panels and what you do there. That would be awesome.

Luke Gower: Yeah, sure. Thanks Heidi. My name is Luke Gower, I'm the technical and taper design manager here at Hunter Panels. Our job here is really to take the mystery out of everything tapered polyiso insulation, with clear designs, accurate quoting and architectural assistance. And things just like this, presentations and just knowledge, getting knowledge out into the industry about tapered polyiso insulation.

Heidi Ellsworth: Excellent. That is great. Welcome to the show, we are so happy to have you on here. And I would also love from Hunter Panels to introduce Heather. Heather, if you could introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about Hunter Panels, that would be great too.

Heather Thompson: Yeah, sure. So I am the CAD specialist here at Hunter Panels, which allows me to sort of dip my toes into a bunch of different aspects of the business, which I've really enjoyed my entire time here. So as we're about to talk about some of the programs that, again, that we're about to talk about, are near and dear to my heart and I can't wait to share it with you.

Heidi Ellsworth: Heather, thank you so much for being here. I love the fact that you are a CAD technician and that you're leading that technical department. That is so cool. So thank you so much for being here today. And last but certainly not least, I am so excited to introduce Matt Wunch from Autodesk. Matt, welcome to Coffee Conversations.

Matt Wunch: Yeah, thanks for having me. So I'm a solutions engineer here at Autodesk, but I have been in the AEC industry, both the horizontal and the vertical spaces since 1992. Back when the little save icon on all of our applications was an actual physical object. I don't know if that's just dating myself or not, but that was r10 DOS for AutoCAD. So I've been in the industry for longer than I'd like to admit, but 30 some odd years.

Heidi Ellsworth: I'd love to have you... And Megan, if we could progress that slide. Everybody can see Matt on there, that would be great. So folks, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for those great introductions. We're very excited about this. And I really want to start out with the basics, because I think there's a lot of people who would just like to understand. So Matt, would you mind talking about what is BIM technology and how does Revit play within it?

Matt Wunch: Yeah, absolutely. So I like to use it as both a noun and a verb, right? So BIM is building information modeling as a verb, or it could be a building information model, like a noun, right? So I tend to use it interchangeably all the time. But essentially, BIM allows multiple disciplines to produce a digital representation of an asset across its life cycle. So from planning and design, to construction, operations, all the way through. Revit is that solution that helps pull all of these teams and stakeholders together, allowing them to see that project coming to life digitally in the cloud, regardless of wherever they are in the world. And unlike 2D CAD, where only a single person can work on the drawing at any given time, the entire design team can hop into a Revit model, work on the same area at the same time.

We were kind of chatting a little bit before everyone came on, but I believe the days of BIM or I believe the days of charging extra for BIM as a service are long gone, right? It's no longer a nice-to-have option, it's really to be expected. Just walking into a Starbucks and hopping on their Wi-Fi is to be expected or being at a sports stadium. Or at a hotel room, which is where I am right now, being able to hop on that Wi-Fi, right? It's no longer that nice-to-have, but really a need-to-have. We all live in a 3D world, so why shouldn't we be designing and modeling in 3D as well?

Heidi Ellsworth: That is so true. Now that we know where we're at and we know what that is, we want to also... And sorry, I've had a little technical difficulty here. Hold on. There we go. We also want to kind of talk about overall where it is in the industry. Kind of to your point, Matt, of it's a given. But there was a recent Autodesk survey that showed the use of Revit and BIM with architects and the industry overall. Can you share some of that with us?

Matt Wunch: Yeah. I mean, seeing those trends, I believe this is from the Dodge report, right? From 2021, I think it was. But yeah, those trends are just constantly going, right? People are realizing that it's no longer that nice-to-have, it's a must-have for projects. And really ensuring that everything can actually be built the way it's being designed, which is kind of a challenge when it comes to the 2D drawings, right? You have to draw everything separately. You got your plans, you got your sections, you got your details. They're all part of that project, but they're also all very disconnected at the same time. Whereas Revit is a central database essentially, of information, of that geometry. And being able to take that model and slice and dice it any which way, being able to see where things are.

And we're just seeing that trend going upward as people are realizing the benefits of having that model upfront, before everything goes out to the field. And then they start to realize, "I can't actually build this because it wasn't coordinated correctly." Right? So having that model allows people to do that. Which ties into all sorts of other aspects of sustainability and not having to rip something out, ship it back to the site, rebuild it and all that. There's a whole slew of added benefits to having that 3D model. I'm sure we'll get into that as we progress here. But yeah, I mean, those trends are just going to continue upwards as people really latch onto this.

Heidi Ellsworth: And Luke, as you're looking at the Dodge report, you were the one... You guys track this a lot because it really affects everything in the construction industry. What are some of your insights on this most recent report?

Luke Gower: Just kind of piggybacking off of what Matt just said, we've struggled as an industry to move from 2D to 3D. We've been dealing with drawing roof plans in two dimensions, and then using CAD to draw roof plans in two dimensions. And we've always, as a Hunter Panels team, looked at innovation as a necessary in the industry and for our company and our department. So we're trying to push the envelope. And these are the kind of things that we're looking at as, okay, how can we take this 2D drawing, make it 3D, be able to look at that in multiple different angles, make sure that, like Matt had just said, that there's no issues between the different trades on the job sites.

And looking at this report, when we got it in '21, it just really solidified the idea that we were headed in the right direction. That the innovation and moving from 2D to 3D was the right move. I think there's a couple of graphs in that report, that Dodge report that show architects that use BIM on 50% of more of their jobs are moving from the forties into the sixties and seventies or eighties and nineties. And same with construction, construction is going the exact same way. So contractors are using it on more and more of their projects. Again, in the next couple of years, and that's actually right now, because this report we came out in '21, they're looking at 60 to 70% of all contractors utilizing Revit in some capacity on their larger projects.

Heidi Ellsworth: Well, when you see the construction companies up there under the types of companies, construction company and then also the users, construction professionals are second. I mean, I realize that's GCs, that's all the trades, but for roofing just really shows how important it is.

Luke Gower: Absolutely. And that's why we're here today, is we want to get the message out and really highlight the fact that this is where the industry's going and we want to be on the front of that curve. And we want everyone else to be on that curve as well and come along for the ride.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, exactly. And Megan, I'm not sure, I think there's a... And as everyone can tell, I don't have control of it today, but yes, I thought there was a next slide here too. So as you're looking at this, Luke and Heather too, let's talk a little bit about the top internal benefits for improving ROI on BIM and also that expectation and satisfaction with BIM skills of each company type. Luke, let's start with you. Can you address some of this?

Luke Gower: Well, I mean, just taking a look at this when we read through it, there's a huge amount of positives that you can gain from moving into utilizing BIM and utilizing a software like Revit. Some of those could be the productivity of the internal folks, the productivity of not as much rework. This is more Heather's world, so to speak, because she's living it in every day. But as a designer, working with a contractor or an architect or consultant, going back and forth, having multiple conversations, multiple revisions to drawings and the like, this BIM and being able to work collaboratively like this really increases our productivity overall.

Heidi Ellsworth: And Heather, maybe you can talk a little bit to this too, because I find the expectations of and satisfaction with graph so interesting, because you can see architects, structural engineers, they're pretty much, they've been using this. Especially trade. So it's at that 50% there. I mean, they're on and they're definitely starting to gain. What are you seeing?

Heather Thompson: Yeah. So having sort of rolled out this new, I guess, CAD program, which is Revit, to our own folks internally, has really given me an insight into probably the industry at large. There's definitely people who are more comfortable with legacy programs, things they have been working with for years. And I think there's a good deal of hesitation to sort of dive into a new program because, I don't know, I think you feel like if you don't know every part of it, then you don't know the program and you can't make that claim anywhere. So we've sort of, I guess, supported that, as far as our internal people go and the people who have really glommed onto it, that's not really the right word, but have really benefited from learning these things.

And I think that's probably why you see some of those columns being shorter in some of those fields, because we're still in that transitionary period where people are starting to use it, people are starting to be comfortable with using it, even if it's only a little fraction of it. I mean, what we have done is really just a tiny fraction of what Revit can do. So I would just urge everyone to not be afraid of sort of embracing any part of Revit that works for you.

Heidi Ellsworth: Right. Well, and you are the leader in this. In fact, I think you're the only ones using Revit for the most part out there.

Heather Thompson: We've got a few of our folks in the department who are coming up after me to...

Heidi Ellsworth: Bring it all. I love it. So Megan, I believe we have another slide. So now we are really going to get into talking more about that. And so before we dive into exactly how it's working with the tapered systems, I do want to talk a little bit first, and Heather, I'm going to start with you, on what type of contractors should be looking at Revit and who are you working with in the industry?

Heather Thompson: So, this was a great question for us when we first started as well, it's who is going to be interested in working with us on this? And we've sort of grown our list of contacts that know that we're using Revit and use Revit themselves, which has been really wonderful. But we're still sort of on the getting things together stage. So we're more than willing to work with anyone at any level of Revit experience for that matter.

So we've definitely just seen that this makes a difference in contractors who are bidding projects. Especially if they can show this as sort of a final visual to the client, it makes it much easier to understand. And, as we'll get into in a bit, tapered insulation on a roof is probably one of the hardest things to sort of visualize in three dimensions, but it's vital to how it works. So this was sort of an ideal forum in which to try this out. And it's really been great for architects as well. Again, anyone who works with Revit already, to be able to work within the same file and basically incorporate our designs into their plan set has been really wonderful. And I think for both of us, it's been a benefit, as far as making connections go. What else? What other contractors?

Luke Gower: Yeah. I mean, I think, just to further that train of thought, the larger contractors that are working with high-profile projects and high-profile architects, they're the ones that are already, for the most part, going to be utilizing Revit to some capacity and collaborating with those architects. We've seen quite a bit of usage on the smaller contractors or where we've had a difficult situation on the roof, but they've come up to an area where they don't know exactly how the drainage is supposed to work, and we're able to go in there, show them a 3D model of how that water is going to efficiently get to the drainage points, show that there's going to be positive drainage in the cricket valley slope, et cetera, those kind of things. And really makes their life a lot easier when they're on the roof and they can actually see, in three dimensions, how that's going to work.

So I think it's great for larger contractors and larger general contractors, but it's also useful for smaller contractors that just are in a bind and want to see something in three dimensions. Or those up and coming contractors that might be a little bit younger on the spectrum, that come into the business. Contracting and roofing is kind of an older generation, but we're starting to see that influx of younger folks come in that really embrace technology. And again, that's where we want to be on that cutting edge.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. First of all, I have to say, Stan, good morning, I love your comments. As we were talking about just this is part of the new age of technology, he said, "Like Google Docs." And then also, "Thinking 3D is imperative when designing a tapered system for a roof. It comes second nature to roofers to understand the water flow." Stan, right on. And I think this is going to seem really elementary, but I'm just going to bring it up for those folks who may be listening to this in the future and who maybe are new to the industry or anything. But really, what we're talking about too, as we're talking about the Revit and the BIM, and it is a majority low slope. But I'm going to ask the question, can this be used on steep slope, because it's just the whole building? And how much are you seeing that? I mean, I know not with the tapered system, but overall, let's talk a little bit between low slope, steep slope and the BIM capabilities. Maybe Matt, you could talk a little bit about that.

Matt Wunch: Yeah. Honestly, it could be used for anything, really. Whatever you can dream up, Revit can most likely handle it. It doesn't have to be really flat, really 90 degree walls, things like that. It's really up to you and the limit of your imagination.

But I want to go back to something Heather said earlier, and she mentioned working with directors, with architects. I think that's really important here, because the folks at Hunter Panels, they know their systems, they know how they're supposed to operate, how they're supposed to be built, taking into account the slope, for example. If you give that to an architect, they might get it right eventually, but Revit allows for the architect, the structural engineer, Hunter Panels, everybody to be in that model at the same time, working on and focusing on what they're good at, what they know, inside and out.

So just working with those other partners early on is, I think very critical to having a successful project. Rather than coming in late in the game and then trying to fix something that wasn't quite designed in accordance to the specifications or with the right slopes, for example. So partnering with those team members on early is going to be extremely beneficial to the success of the project.

Heidi Ellsworth: Well, and I also, I think that's perfect because Heather also said something about... And maybe, Luke, it was you, I'm not sure. But that when you are presenting your proposals to a building owner, to the general contractor, to working with architects, however that may be, that is really key in... Thank you, Megan. That is really key in being able to differentiate your business. So if you have your own department with your own AutoCAD or Rivet designers, that shows obviously the scale that you're at. But even as a smaller contractor, to your point, if they work with someone like you, like Hunter or their manufacturers, to provide these kind of plans that we're seeing right here, that makes a huge difference in the sales process. And Heather, you're nodding, let's talk about that for a minute.

Heather Thompson: Yeah. Again, I think the biggest benefit of all of this is that ease of communication and really sort of translating what you're planning on doing into visual information that anyone, like a layman can understand, which is most of us at the end of the day here. So yeah, I can't say enough for the collaboration part of this.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Go ahead, Luke.

Luke Gower: Oh, no, yeah, I completely agree there. Matt was spot on, working directly with an architect. I mean, architects have so much to learn through their schooling and then throughout their careers. They have so much to work on. The roofing aspect of it is kind of an afterthought. We've all seen the plans, and this isn't saying anything disparaging about architects. Like I said, they know everything about the building. The roofing is a little bit of an afterthought when it comes to that for a lot of them. And being able to partner with someone like Hunter Panels, that can take their model and really put the tapered insulation into their model and collaborate with them directly. Look at things like, and we'll probably get to it later, but something like clash detection, mechanical units, piping, that sort of thing on the roof, and make sure that all these things work together in the environment. And then, having that as a visual representation to the general contractor, to the building owner, saying, "This is exactly how your roof and your building overall is going to look," just puts them a notch above everybody else in the industry.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. I really see it as speaking the same language. That the contractor now... Before, maybe the architect, the GC, the other, we're all talking the same language and the roofing contractor may have been left out. Now all of a sudden, using Rivet and BIM, you are now talking the same language, everybody is seeing the same thing. So let's go to the next slide and talk a little bit about that 2D versus 3D models. Let's just kind of talk about when they're used, by who on the job process. So Megan, if you can switch the slide.

Thank you, Stan. "Most architects I have worked with don't want to be the designer when it comes to tapers, and I also don't feel they see the ultimate importance of proper slopes." So this is how you talk, this is how you communicate. Thank you, Stan. Please everybody, continue questions, comments, this is perfect. So Megan, if we could switch to the next slide, please.

Perfect. So let's start with you Luke. And just talking about the difference between the 2D and the 3D models, and where they're used and when. What's your thoughts?

Luke Gower: Yeah. Well, the slide you have up here is more of a mechanical type situation, but if I just look at it through the roofing lens, through tapered systems lens, we've always done things in two dimensions, right? And that's great and it's been great and it's worked. But as we look at three dimensions, we really come to realize, as we've integrated using Revit in our designs, there's a lot of holes and a lot of issues that crop up when you're only dealing with two dimensions, right? You can lay out a tapered design to efficiently move the water off the drain. Yet, when you really look at that in three dimensions, sometimes the slopes don't interact correctly or sometimes the slope is pushing against a penthouse or another obstruction on the roof. And you don't really see that in two dimensions as much as you would in three dimensions.

Once you start taking that, putting it in a three dimension, start to rotate that, you really see that there's some issues with the slopes going on that contractors are going to look at that drawing that you provide them, that 2D drawing that you provide them, and they're going to lay it out according to that drawing as best they can, and sometimes that runs into some issues. So, as I see it, moving from 2D to 3D really accentuates those points of error that you can have on a roof.

Heather Thompson: You cannot model in 3D an impossible roof, but you can absolutely do it in 2D.

Luke Gower: Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth: So, Megan, let's go on to the next slide. And along to that point, we're talking about the need to... Again, how does this help, where does it help, kind of setting that stage. So when you're looking at how 3D modeling, to your point, Heather, can improve your win rates on projects, this is really interesting. So Luke, why don't we start with you on this Dodge report again. And kind of walk us through some of these results on really how it's helping people.

Luke Gower: Yeah. So I mean, one that really jumped out to me when we looked at this was improved win rate, which is at the bottom right-hand corner of the screen right now. And this question is really for contractors that are using BIM medium to high levels, right? So if you look at this 80... oh, sorry, 78% of those contractors are using it medium to high and are seeing a big benefit on improving their win rate on jobs just by using BIM. So really jumped out to me. Improved quality design, client satisfaction, all these things are huge to that win rate and providing a service to the building owner, to the client, to the end user of that. Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. And Matt, as you're talking, I mean, you talked to so many people who obviously are using Autodesk and using all of these products. What do you hear back from more specialty trade construction, specifically roofing if you can, but on how this has helped them by bringing this into their business?

Matt Wunch: Yeah. I mean, I think this slide pretty much nails it all, right? So I think Heather mentioned reducing errors in rework earlier, right? So when we're looking at that entire 3D model and you modify the roof for example, that's automatically going to adjust the schedule of materials and quantities, area calculations. All these things are just tied together so you don't have to manually go through your separate files and maybe Excel sheets, and things like that, and transfer, copy, paste whatever, to get from one file to another data stream. It's all just interconnected inside of that single Revit model. So, like I said, I think this slide really just kind of nails on all those really key benefits there.

I would add sustainability to that, because that's a huge topic of conversation these days as well. And I mentioned it earlier, being able to ensure that everything can be built the way it's designed to be built and not have to redo some of that work out in the field, which results in possibly ripping stuff out, cutting more materials, pulling it, bringing it on site, everything related to it in terms of carbon emissions and everything else there. So I would add that. I'm actually kind of surprised that's not on this list here, but that's huge as well.

And for those of you who are still kind of on the fence with 2D and going to 3D, keep in mind that the 2D, if you need it, is really just a byproduct of that 3D model, right? So if you need to push that file out to 2D, for someone who's still working in CAD, you do have that ability. Obviously it's not going to be fully three-dimensional, parametric, et cetera. But again, it's a byproduct of that 3D model. Just however you slice and dice it horizontally, vertically, whatever, you can get that particular view and then set it up for that person who's still working in the Stone Age with their rock and chisel and whatnot. But hopefully, that kind of helps encourage them to move into the 3D world as well.

Heidi Ellsworth: I think that's a great point, Matt, is that by making this move to 3D, you're able to still work and function in all worlds. Because sometimes it's like you get the new phone and you're like, "I can never go back to my flip phone." But this allows you a little bit. As we're talking about this, and I do want to let everybody know... First of all, I wanted to read Cassie, thank you. You made a really great comment earlier thanking us for this, so thank you. But you said, "Sometimes it's the case that architects don't always know the best way to get positive drainage. So taper designers are able to help create the best drainage and proposals for such." Perfect. Perfect comment. It leads us right into the importance of communications on the job site and how this facilitates that.

And so we have a new slide here really talking about the different activities by company type and activities by BIM usage, how that's the communication. So let's start with Heather, you brought this up earlier, but really how does this technology facilitate that communication and help educate all parties, help educate those architects on the importance of drainage?

Heather Thompson: Yes. So one thing I wanted to sort of emphasize was something Matt said, which is that Revit is a parametric program. So not only do you input data and create things, but you can actually extract data as they're subjected to various things, whatever you're looking at, analysis, we'll call it. So I don't know if any of you have heard of digital twins, it's sort of a rising field within construction and building maintenance and things like that. So at the root of that is a 3D model often made in Revit. And so as we've been saying, it's going to have everybody literally on the same page looking at the same data. And it's going to be accurate, at least as far as you've put it in correctly. So it's sort of a baseline that everyone can refer back to at any given point, regardless of what field you are consulting in, for example.

I've noticed personally that the designers, the taper designers who have embraced Revit really have a much more innate or true understanding of what they're modeling. So they really get the three-dimensional thing in their brain, as they're doing it. And it really helps to sort of understand the whole process in general. So I think, again, having everyone on the same page, given the same data and being able to extract data that you didn't necessarily know when you made the model is also really important.

We often get little problems, problems in a certain building, maybe there's a height restriction or just a weird arrangement of things, it's much easier to sort of try it out ahead of time. And you can put multiple options on the table and look at all of them. And it really does help everyone communicate within the project, because before this, it was, as Matt said, a million people basically touching it at various places, trying to put their things back to the master file and everything. Every one of those is a place where you can make a little mistake, which can turn into a big mistake down the line.

Heidi Ellsworth: Right. And you know what, I am going to circle back around, because we always like to be on the forefront. So for those people who may not know, including myself, what are digital twins?

Heather Thompson: Do you want to do this, Matt?

Matt Wunch: Honestly, there's so many different definitions out there. I think it really kind of comes down to what your particular need is for a project. But essentially a digital twin is a full digital representation of a built asset. So let's take a factory and it's got the roof, and that factory could have IOT sensors in there. It could have rain gauges that are being monitored. And being able to tap into that information at any given time from just your phone, right? So being able to get that insight into that digital twin is huge, right? Especially when it comes to maintenance and predictive analytics and things like that. When is this pump possibly going to fail? The maintenance was done on it five, six years ago, right? So having all that information in there is key.

And I saw Cassie through a question in the chat there, "And is more information needed for the 3D model than just a typical roof plan?" Yeah, I would say absolutely, right? So looking at the roof plan, for example, you've got the various layers, various materials. What's the thermal resistance on this material? What color is it? How does that all play into the analysis of the building? Is that building going to perform the way it's intended, designed to perform in the conditions where it's being built? All of this extra information might seem a little ridiculous to put all this information in there, but that information can be built into those object types from the get go, so they're always available for every single project moving forward, right? So it's not something that you're going to be doing over and over and over again. You do it once and then you just use it throughout.

So yeah, absolutely throw in as much information as you can, because you never know when you might need this particular piece of information for analysis or this for a report, or whatever the case may be, right? So the more information you can put in there, the better.

Heidi Ellsworth: The better. I love it. And I love Brian, your comment on kind of circling back around to. And really, how this is tying everything together. And I think contractors, in listening to this, and correct me if I'm wrong, but contractors really need to be aware of that you're going to be using this technology in new construction, but it's being used all the way through the lifecycle of the building now. And so that, I love the comment from Brian, essentially tying into tandem, moving into the facility management side of the building lifecycle. So I would think some contractors may think, "Well, I only do reroof, it's not going to matter to me." It is going to matter to you. These buildings are smart buildings, and it's being done in such a different way. And Heather, I love your nod. And is this what you're seeing out there?

Heather Thompson: Yeah.

Luke Gower: I mean, the point that Matt brought up, or the word that's really important there is information, right? You can put all different types and flavors of information into that model and then being able to be able to extract that. So I'm just looking at this slide that we have up on the screen here, and it's material managed by classification code, right? So you're baking in that information, whether it's a coated glass face material, what psi insulation it is, those sort of things. What membrane it is, what the vapor barrier is. You're putting all this information in there and that communication flows all the way through from the architectural process all the way to the contractor side of the business.

And that way they're making sure they're getting the right materials at the right time, exactly as they expect it to be. And there's not, going back to that sustainability, we're not transporting material back and forth to the job site, having overages or shortages of material. All that information is there and is readily accessible to utilize, whether you're the architect, whether you're the contractor or the building owner in the lifecycle of it, looking at, "Oh, when is this? Oh, my roof was done 28 years ago. Well, I'm looking at my warranties coming up in a couple more years, and now we really need to start looking at those things." Or whether it's an HVAC unit or whatever it is on the roof and then the building, that stuff is readily accessible to you through the use of BIM.

Heather Thompson: Yes. And I wanted just to add that as BIM sort of... well, as the industry progresses with BIM, some of these models are very rich with information. They come with R-value, with critical parameters that are important to builders, that are important to the specs, for example. So as we continue to increase our collective BIM library, actually in the world, really, it's going to allow, really, people that are not jacks of all trades, so to speak, to have that expertise coming directly from the experts, but basically just downloading it right into your project. So definitely another way of [inaudible 00:39:34].

Heidi Ellsworth: It's going to really differentiate contractors who are using this and who are moving there, to that next level. So Megan, let's go ahead and go to the next slide. I just want to make sure that where we are at. And yes, this is exactly where I was hoping we were at, because I'm sure there's a lot of people out there right now who are just saying "How? Right, okay, I get it, this is the future, we need to do it. This is everything. So how do we start on incorporating this technology?" So Luke, let's start with you just on how can roofing contractors start.

Luke Gower: Yeah. So I mean, really, it's working with us and working with the architects that's utilizing BIM software already, you already utilizing Revit. But if you're not, we can provide things for you, such as on the screen here at the top left, you see it, like Matt had mentioned earlier, it's a 2D drawing, really, but it was created out of a 3D model, as you can see with the shadowing and et cetera on there. Gives you a much better idea of how that roof is going to get laid out, how that water is going to efficiently move to the drainage points. So working with us, getting these models, getting these... Really, if you're not utilizing Revit and you're not in that space already, you can still utilize-

Heather Thompson: AutoCAD, anything. Like Matt was saying, you can export these into a DWG file format. So basically, we're going to try to meet you wherever you're at. As I said before, there's a huge range of involvement from the various contractors. And maybe you don't do anything with 3D anything, but we're still going to provide you with the visuals to show to your client, for example. Maybe you're just dabbling with Revit, in which case we can sort of have a back and forth about how best to incorporate our designs with yours. What?

Luke Gower: Yeah.

Heather Thompson: Yeah. So it's, of course, as people get more comfortable with it, we're hoping to get more people who are already using it. But again, don't hesitate to reach out or make use of our services or Revit or BIM in general just because you don't know everything about it.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. And let's talk a little bit about your services. I think we talked about Hunter Panels, but let's just talk a little bit about, I think there's probably people out there thinking, "Wow, I can come in here and you're going to help me with Revit to get my tapered system and to figure out my installation?" Talk a little bit about how those services work. How do people reach out? Let's be honest, they may be buying installation other places or through some of their manufacturers. How do they start connecting with you and doing that?

Luke Gower: Yeah. I mean, so you can go right onto our website. You go right onto our roofing section on our website, go into the tapered section. Has a request for a tapered quote right on there, but it can also be a design assist. So if you're looking at a roof and you're not exactly sure how that's going to be laid out with a tapered installation system, we can do that for you. We can give you the design and then you can decide if you want to go down that path, get a quote, get a piece count, get a bill of materials and then ultimately purchase that material from us in that design.

But really, we kicked the use of Revit off, kind of starting with the architectural community, working with the architects, working with their Revit files and then kind of transitioning that and saying, "Okay, our deliverable to the customer, to the contractor is going to be..." What they used to do, that 2D model, that 2D drawing, but also, "Hey, we're going to give you some three-dimensional snips to really show you how that's going to operate in real space," to wet their appetite, so to speak.

Heather Thompson: And hopefully differentiate ourselves from the competition.

Heidi Ellsworth: Right. I love it. Okay, so Matt, there's contractors out there listening to this right now who have not done this at all. I mean, they do not have any of this, but they want to. They want to get Revit, they want to start working within this world and having... So talk to a little bit, how do they start? Not just go and download it. I mean, what are some of the advice that you would give on how they can start bringing this into their company, and then having that department working directly with someone like Hunter to be able to send files back and forth to each other?

Matt Wunch: Right. Yeah. So the advice I would provide, what I would suggest is start slow. Don't try to go all in right away because, honestly, it's only just going to lead to frustration and you just kind of throwing your hands up and saying, "Forget it, I'm done." But start slow. Work with either a partner, reseller or there's a whole series of authorized training centers. Get some basic training on Revit, because it is different from AutoCAD, for example. It's totally different file format. It's, like I mentioned earlier, it's like a database. Everything is in that single file. So the workflows are a little bit different.

But just start slow. Take those baby steps and really kind of focus in on what's important to you, in terms of your workflows, your particular job. Because Revit can really do everything, right? It can do the architectural, the mechanical, the structural. Do you necessarily need training on all those other parts? Probably not, right? So really just kind focus in on what's important to you. Go slow. And it's been mentioned a number of times before, there is that ability to kind of bail out, if you will, and go to 2D DWGs to finish out that project, right? So throughout that learning curve, that time that it takes to get ramped up, you do have that sort of emergency eject, if you will. You can always go back and finish it out in AutoCAD, where you're still very familiar.

But ultimate goal is to get to that 3D level, right? So being able to produce something like you see on the screen here. And then take it a step further, take all that information, those models out to the field on your phone. Instead of lugging around a giant roll, giant set of 36 by 48 sheets over your shoulder, you just take your tablet, take your phone out there and just scroll through the drawings, through the models and see everything right there. So we've all got one, right? So why not take advantage of this horsepower and save a few trees and not have to lug around all those sheets out there.

But yeah, ultimate advice is take it slow. It's not going to be a quick change, it does take a different little bit of a mindset. But work with partner resellers, and then you get to that point where you start working with Hunter and you collaborate on those models together and let them do what they really specialize in and you can focus on the other parts of it. And really, just making sure that everything comes together the way it's supposed to.

Heidi Ellsworth: Well, and I'm going to ask some simple questions, because I think there's probably some people... I'm guessing there's some people thinking the way I am too. And Brian was reading my mind, "My established contractors would probably benefit from bringing in experienced talent." So, simple question, if you already have Autodesk, then that's a step you can take to Rivet, right? From Autodesk and incorporating Revit? Is that correct, Matt?

Matt Wunch: I'm sorry, I was getting caught up reading the... I saw a Q and A come in and it's a pretty lengthy one. Can you repeat the question?

Heidi Ellsworth: Oh, I need to get my Q and A. Okay, we'll bring that up. But just, if you already have Autodesk, it's just one step up to going to Revit. And you can already bring that in for the most part?

Matt Wunch: Right.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. But if you don't have Autodesk, I mean, maybe I'm getting confused here with the terminologies, but just for a contractor, if they go from 2D and then they want to go to 3D, but can they just go, if they have nothing, just go directly to 3D if they bring in just hiring some experienced talent out there, to Brian's point?

Matt Wunch: Right. Yeah, I mean there's always that option as well. Whether you hire someone or you outsource some of that work as well, there's definitely that option. And one thing I wanted to mention too is as you're getting into the Revit application, you can import those 2D DWGs and sort of use them as a background, a little bit of a reference to kind of start your design. Again, just in that ramp up process, getting your feet wet, getting familiar and comfortable with the application. There's a lot of that bidirectionality between the 3D world and the 2D world.

Heidi Ellsworth: Perfect. Okay. And you're right, we just had a Q and A come in and it is rather lengthy. And thank you. They work for a manufacturer of roofing membranes. I'm not going to read this whole thing, but I think you have Matt, right? Do you...

Matt Wunch: I'm still trying to get through it.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. "So basically, I can simply offer BIM data of the products we manufacture along with their physical properties, hyperlinks to the product pages, et cetera and lead the designer to assemble the roofing components themselves and BIM to meet their project's specific needs. Is my thinking correct?

Luke Gower: Yes, a hundred percent.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes. So Luke, can you talk to that?

Luke Gower: Yeah. That's one of the things that we're looking at doing and are doing now and are going to be building upon that. And that's kind of what Matt had mentioned it earlier, we talked about a little bit, is that information that's in that model. Just baking in all of the specs for that product, the hyperlink, all of the materials, physical properties, all those things are going to be baked right into the model for you. So as you extract that data, gives you a rundown of all the information and all the materials that are on that job site, that make up that roofing component system. And yeah, it's extremely powerful. And that's the question, I believe if I understood it correctly, is exactly what we want to do and what we can do, and what BIM can do, and so much more than that.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes. I love it. Okay, so now you have your... And some of this is confusing. I probably am confusing some of it too. And so be sure to get with the experts. And I just saw Harlene Pine came in and she put her information in on help. We have both Heather and Luke and Matt who can help with all of this, because that's really, at the end of the day, getting this, I think we've established the case, right? We've established the fact that this is where people need to go.

Now, how it works for each one, whether you're a manufacturer, a contractor, whoever you are, architect, how it works for your company, whether you're going to outsource it, whether you're going to... I mean, I think the fact that Hunter is offering to work with people and send those drawings that they can then use with architects, let's talk about that just for a second, because I really feel like that is the number one starting point. Luke, why don't you just... I know you said go to the website and stuff like that, but if they have a question and they want to get it into submittal, they just start working with you, right? And then that can go into their proposals.

Luke Gower: Yeah, absolutely. We'll treat that just like a typical quote that they would get from us for the tapered installation, but it'll be the next step-up for that.

Heidi Ellsworth: Right.

Heather Thompson: Not totally like a quote because we're not really interested in the price at that point. So it's all about the design, and that's sort of the difference between what we call design assists and our regular quotes. So we expect to sort of go back and forth with the customer a little bit with those design assists to incorporate all of that, sorry, information that they've got.

Luke Gower: Yep.

Heidi Ellsworth: And so, for people who are really out there going, "Okay, I'm ready for this next step." Maybe that's you, Stan Robinson. Or maybe you already have it. But there is an Autodesk University that is coming up, I think, Matt, you said within the next three or four weeks. And that's where you just dive into the deep end of the pool. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Matt Wunch: Yeah. Autodesk University, that's November 13th through the 15th, coming up really soon. But yeah, there's tons of courses for design, manufacturing, media and entertainment, professionals as well, so they kind of run the gamut of solutions and offerings. I think it'd be best just to kind of throw the link into the chat here, and I'll bring that up just a moment here. But yeah, if you have the chance and your company is willing to send you to Las Vegas, because that's where it is and that's always kind of a point of contention. And, "Why are you going to Vegas? You're just going to drink and gamble."

Heather Thompson: Yeah, [inaudible 00:53:44] little button at the top of the screen that says, "Convince your manager."

Matt Wunch: Yep. Yeah, absolutely. I just threw that in the chat.

Heidi Ellsworth: And Heather, you are going.

Heather Thompson: I am. Right.

Heidi Ellsworth: And Luke, you're going too, you both are going?

Luke Gower: I'm not. Yeah, Heather brought it to me a while ago and I was a hundred percent on board. We've been using Autodesk products, CAD, what have you for a long time. And introducing Revit to our department, really utilizing that, getting familiar with it, rolling it out. It's a great resource and it's going to have a lot of information that Heather is going to go absorb, bring back to the team. So I'm really excited about that. Think of it like an IRE on steroids or [inaudible 00:54:37] back on steroids, right? That's really what it is. It's a show you get to go, you get to meet the Autodesk vendors, a multitude of different people and then also have a ton of information in class that's available.

Heather Thompson: When they say a ton of classes, like over 600 in three days. So I mean, that's incredible.

Heidi Ellsworth: Wow, that's incredible. And so Luke, there's people out here listening. So this really, I mean, I'm going to put this out there, probably not for the owners, unless you want to do that. What you need to do is empower, whether you've hired some folks into your design teams, however you're doing that, send those employees to really be able to absorb and bring back all the information and understand it.

Luke Gower: Yeah, a hundred percent. You want the frontline people that are actually utilizing the software every day to be at this kind of event. You want the people that are going to be bringing this back to the company, training other individuals up to really progress. And again, I mentioned at the beginning, stay on that leading edge of the curve of technology and the industry. That's what we've wanted to do here at Hunter Panels, is we've wanted to innovate and be at the forefront of things that are happening in the world. And we want to make sure that we're providing that service. We're there first. We're providing that service to the contractors, to the architects and ultimately, to the construction industry.

Heather Thompson: Yeah. And I also wanted to just give a little shout-out to Autodesk in general, who really partnered with us in the beginning of this. And there was a lot of wonderful exchange of information and they really stayed in the loop with us as we were learning this. So I would definitely put them forward as a great resource for anyone looking to get involved.

Luke Gower: Hundred percent.

Heidi Ellsworth: That is excellent. And I do want to make sure on that one point that you just had, Luke, Hunter is the only one who's doing this right now in the industry?

Luke Gower: As far as we know. We have not seen anybody else provide this kind of information and these kind of plants out there. We work with hundreds and hundreds of contractors, subcontractors, hundreds of architects, other consultants, and we haven't seen this from anybody else.

Heather Thompson: Yes. As far as BIM goes though, we do have people in our partner companies, such as Brian Rivera there, at Carlisle Construction Materials, and they are doing a lot with BIM in their product lines. So something to stay tuned for, for sure.

Heidi Ellsworth: That's great. Well, congratulations. This has been amazing. I've learned so much. And I think we're just at the very beginnings, at the tip of the iceberg, so there's a lot more to come on this topic as we go forward. And we know where the experts are. So thank you both and thank you Hunter so much for sponsoring this. Thank you all, Matt, Heather, Luke, thank you again for being here today.

Matt Wunch: My pleasure.

Heather Thompson: Yes.

Luke Gower: Yes, our pleasure. Thank you so much, Heidi.

Heidi Ellsworth: Thank you. And thank you all for listening, again. Thank you Hunter Panels for sponsoring this. If you have questions, you know where to reach us, Heidi at Roofers Coffee Shop. You can get with the folks at Hunter, we can get you to Matt. There is a lot of good questions that we can help you answer afterwards for follow up, so don't hesitate at all.

And please join us in a couple weeks, November 9th. We are going to be having our next Coffee Conversations, and it's going to be on our trends report. We are so excited. So we have some amazing data and analytics that have come out of our trends report that we'll be sharing out, and that is sponsored by Beacon. So thank you Beacon so much for helping us really listen to the voice of the industry. I want to thank everybody again for listening. This will be available on demand within 24 hours. And be sure to stay with us and check out all of our Coffee Conversations on both our website and our podcasts. So we will be seeing all of you. Thank you again, Luke, Heather and Matt. And we will be seeing all of you in a couple of weeks for our next Coffee Conversations. Have a great day.

Matt Wunch: Thank you.