Representing Excellence – The Gottron Family Legacy - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with the Gottron family of Duro-Last®. You can read the interview below, listen to the podcast or watch the recording.

Intro: Hello and welcome to Coffee Conversations. My name is Heidi Ellsworth and we are live at the Duro-Last headquarters in Saginaw, Michigan. We have been looking forward to this Coffee Conversations for so long. We are going to be with one of the legacy families in roofing and really talking about what it means to be families in roofing, to be at the top of the sales chain and really what's happening out there. So before we get started with some very special introductions, I want to go over a few housekeeping. First of all, this is being recorded. We're happy to have you out there. As always with these Coffee Conversations, we want to be very interactive. So please join us in the chat, let us know who you are, where you're calling in from or watching and also what kind of business you have. And throughout the entire conversation, please let us know what you think, share your comments, ask questions.

We have people, Megan Ellsworth, our producer, is monitoring the chat. We also have some folks out there, Karen Edwards and I know there's a few others, so be sure to be active and they'll yell out some of those questions for us. Also, again, this is being recorded and it will be available within 24 hours on Demand, so be sure to share it out to everyone. So let's get started with this live Coffee Conversations. First of all, the title of this Coffee Conversation I think is so perfect and it's called Representing Excellence: The Gottron Family Legacy. And let me tell you, I've spent the best morning so far with this family getting to know them. So I want all of you to meet them and really see how special this all is. So gentlemen, hello.

Jeff Gottron: Good morning, Heidi.

Chris Gottron: Good morning Heidi. How are you?

Heidi J Ellsworth: So excited to have you all here. Let's start with some introductions. So first, Jeff, if you could introduce yourself, tell us about your company and what you do with it.

Jeff Gottron: All right, so I'm Jeff Gottron, started with Duro-Last in 1983, along with my father, Joe and I live in Fenton, Michigan and represent Duro-Last as Engineered Systems of Michigan, independent representative.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I love it. Mike.

Mike Gottron: Yep. Mike Gottron. I live in Columbus, Ohio. I started with Duro-Last representing them in 1985. I actually worked for them as an employee, their first national sales manager in '84. And happy to be here.

Heidi J Ellsworth: So happy to have you. Bryan.

Bryan Gottron: I'm Bryan Gottron. I live in Dayton, Ohio and I started in 1996, co-independent rep for Duro-Last in Ohio with my brother Mike. And yeah, happy to be here. Thank you.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Excellent. And Chris?

Chris Gottron: Yep. Chris Gottron, I live in Columbus, Ohio with Engineered Systems, joined Engineered Systems and the DL team in 2018. And yeah, excited to be here as well.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I know. It's so great. Trevor.

Trevor Gottron: I'm Trevor Gottron. I live here in Michigan. I'm a sales rep for Jeff Gottron in Engineered Systems of Michigan as well. And I live in Fenton also.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And Austin.

Austin Gottron: Yes, I'm Austin, happy to be here. Also rep in Michigan, independent rep with Duro-Last and Engineered Systems of Michigan, also Gottron Consulting Group, if you look online for marketing purposes, but just happy to be here.

Heidi J Ellsworth: So really when we were getting ready talking about this Coffee Conversations, I was really excited because after 30 plus years in the roofing industry, you have to know that manufacturers reps are really the heartbeat.

They are the heartbeat of our industry. They know everybody. And so it's been fun. We've been kind of sharing, "Do you know this person? Do you know that person?" And really looking at this. And so Duro-Last wanted bring the Gottron family together to really show how important manufacturer's reps are and share some wisdom of what's going out there, because Duro-Last has some of the most loyal, motivated, successful reps in the industry. So today, that's what we're going to be talking about. Be sure to ask questions as we go along, but first, as we always like to do, we're going to tell some stories. We're going to hear a little bit of the history of the Gottron family. So Jeff, let's start with you. Loves to tell a story. I've already figured that out, but what I would love to hear is how did the Gottron family get involved with Duro-Last? How did it all start?

Jeff Gottron: Well, it all started in May of 1983. I was supposed to go to work for Ohio Bell, which was, it was Ohio Bell and AT&T. And I had an internship with them the summer before, and they offered me a job and I was so fired up getting ready to go to work for them. And about a month before graduation in college, the government stepped in and divested. They were the last of the monopolies. So all of a sudden, they put a hiring freeze on. I no longer had a job. And back in '83, it was the Jimmy Carter era where the interest rates were about 20% and nobody was hiring. And so I didn't have a job. So my father called me on a Tuesday morning after a poker game on Monday night. And this guy, Bob Pitts, who was one of his best friends, he was the largest independent rep for pool liners.

So he was selling all kinds of pool supplies, whatever. And he was just at a national seminar with John Burt who owned Tri-City Vinyl, and he was representing John Burt with the pool liners. So they were together and John was trying to talk him into becoming the first rep in Ohio. So Bob was too busy. He had 13 states with pool liners and all kinds of pool supplies and things like that. So he told John, "I'm too busy to represent your roofing product, but I got a friend that I think would be great for you." So he told my dad. So I get a call about 6:00 in the morning on a Tuesday, and my dad called and it was the first time he ever called me at college. Usually, it was my mom, right?

Heidi J Ellsworth: Back in the day before cellphones.

Jeff Gottron: Dad calls and I thought something happened to mom. I go, "Is mom okay?" "No, no, she's doing fine. But I was with [inaudible 00:06:50] last night, he's got this great opportunity and I'm thinking it'd be fun. You're getting ready to graduate." And dad was unemployed at the time and he's like, "Let's go check this roofing company out of Saginaw, Michigan and see if we can be the first reps in Ohio." So I go, "Okay, let's go up there this coming Friday." So dad and I drive up to Saginaw. We met John Burt and if you ever met John Burt, first thing he's going to tell you is his dreams of making Duro-Last the world's best roof.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I remember that. Let me tell you, great marketing.

Jeff Gottron: And at the time, there was 84 different roofing companies and we were number 84 out of 84, but he was so convincing and so passionate about the product, we thought, "Man, we're going to take this to the top." So we decided to take the line on June 1st, 1983, so dad and I started together in Fremont, Ohio and John Burt was a big hunter and fisherman and dad had a fishing boat and had a marsh for ducks and geese. So John, who was a World War II pilot, had his own Cessna plane. He would fly down and we'd do sales calls in the morning and we'd either go fishing or hunting in the afternoon depending on what the season was. And so after, from June to, we get towards about November, John's like, "Hey, you guys are doing really good. We're starting to set up all these contractors and got things rolling in Ohio." He goes, "I think you ought to move to Michigan, leave your dad down here and you need to do the same thing up in Michigan." So it was kind of funny because mike wasp

Heidi J Ellsworth: Now wait, I'm going to hold on, because I want Mike to tell his story right now. This has been so much fun. Okay, so did you go to Michigan?

Jeff Gottron: Yes.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yes.

Jeff Gottron: I moved up to Michigan January 1st, 1984. And John's like, "Hey, Mildred, we got a place in Florida, so she would spend the winter down in Florida." He goes, "You can just live with me until you find a place."

Heidi J Ellsworth: Okay, I didn't hear that earlier. Okay, then Mike, where were you in this whole story?

Mike Gottron: I was living in Houston, Texas. So my background is HR and I was hiring people for Tenneco Oil, one of the top biggest companies in the country. So Jeff and dad were pretty excited about being associated with Duro-Last and I was going to be coming home for Christmas to visit the family from Texas. So they said, "Any chance you'd come up to Michigan and just see what we're doing?" So I came home Fremont, Ohio, we drove up to Saginaw, we did a tour of the facility and like Jeff said, spending time with John Burt, he starts telling me his vision and, "What do you do, Mike?" And, "Well, I hire people for oil industry and this and that." And he goes, "Why don't you come to work for me and become our first national sales manager?"

Heidi J Ellsworth: And your dad's like, "No, no."

Mike Gottron: Yeah. I was dating a girl down there who had given me a plane ticket to come home for Christmas to see my family. Next thing I'm calling her saying, "You're not going to believe this. But I got offered a job in Saginaw, Michigan." She wasn't real happy, but she said, "Hey, do what you think you should do." And believe it or not, I went back and gave my two weeks notice and moved to Saginaw, Michigan. So it's kind of crazy how life works. But I think the other funny thing is these guys made like $11,000 commission their first six months and they're so excited that they're doing this, but John's vision and the way he could make you believe was pretty much part of the reason I did it.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I love that. Okay. And Bryan, how did you come into this great opportunity to join? They're all wheeling you in, right?

Bryan Gottron: Exactly. I'm the youngest of seven kids and I'm way younger than everybody, way younger. So I was 10 years old when all that started in '83. And so I kind of grew up a little bit just kind of watching everything that they were saying as far as them going out on sales calls and contractors coming by or Mr. Burt coming by and all that kind of thing. But I never really gave it any real consideration as a career. I was interested in engineering. I went to Ohio State to study civil engineering, and I co-opted doing all of that. And I got several offers to do structural engineering. And towards, the 11th hour when I was getting close to graduation, I remember Mike, he was living in the Columbus area at the time and he reached out, said, "Hey, I'm going to be down your way. You want to go grab lunch?" And we had lunch together and that was kind of when he said, "I really think that instead of going that route, I could really use your help. Dad's about 65, he's doing a lot more hunting and fishing than he is selling."

Heidi J Ellsworth: This is just afternoon to that point.

Bryan Gottron: Exactly. So obviously, it was a tough decision because I was thinking about being an engineer all that time up to that point. And frankly, I kind of avoided things like public speaking and things that might actually be part of the job description, which tells you how desperate Mike was for help. I was like, "You really want me to come do that?" But I made the decision. I said, "I guess I could always go back to engineering if I don't like this. I'm going to give this a shot." And so I graduated in March of '96, started with him April 1st of '96 and we've been working together now for 28 and a half years. So it's been great.

Mike Gottron: Yeah. Pretty cool.

Heidi J Ellsworth: We're going to talk a little bit about that too. What does that mean? What the family and working together and laughing together, and I'm sure sometimes a little annoyed with each other, but you wouldn't have seen that, let me tell you, at all so far. Okay, now the next generation. So how did you get into all this?

Chris Gottron: It mirrors much of that story in a lot of ways, but I grew up kind of in the business, if you will, but arm's length, it would be weekends of cleaning out the back storage room or inputting business cards or anything to kind of just help things along. And so I went to Ohio State for finance. I graduated, joined Nielsen, Nielsen TV Ratings, great company, great people and learned a ton. I worked with them for about four years and got to travel much of the world, much of the country for work. And so we were on an assignment in San Francisco and my dad calls me at 4:00 in the morning and goes, "Hey, you got a minute?" "I go, well, it's 4:00 in the morning, so I've got a few minutes."

He goes, "I don't know if you've ever thought about it, but it would be great if you would come into business or if you'd be interested at all." And so I thought about it for a little bit and I said, "Let me get back to you when it's normal hours." And I called him back a couple of days later and I go, "I want to do this. I'll join you, but I'm going to put a two-year stipulation on it and that way, if it's not going well, I'll just bail out and no harm, no foul." And he goes, "Great, that works for me." And that was June 11th, 2018 and it blew by and it keeps becoming more fun each year. But no, it's been a blast and it's been fun to work with family either loosely through Michigan, but also directly with these two and it's been awesome.

Heidi J Ellsworth: That's awesome. That is so, so great. And it's definitely been more than two years.

Chris Gottron: Definitely been more than two years.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I've heard some of those too. Trevor.

Trevor Gottron: So kind of like Chris, grew up around Duro-Last my whole life. I mean, he's a passionate individual. He's been with the company for 41 years, so grew up in the backseat with insulation in the backseat, poking holes through, playing with membrane [inaudible 00:15:10] Duro-Last screwdrivers [inaudible 00:15:12] as you can say. And it's funny, I went to Northwood in my community college for marketing and it's funny how marketing sticks with you and that kind of stuck with me my whole life. So I've been working with Mikey the past five years and he's been bugging me. "I really think it'd be great if you join and work for me. I'd love it." And finally, it finally worked this past year when I started in March. So it's been an incredible opportunity. I see why he's so passionate about it. But it's been awesome getting to see my family and why they're so passionate and how much respect they command from this industry and how hard they've worked to be where they're at. So it's been an incredible opportunity so far.

Heidi J Ellsworth: That is a great point too, that legacy. It's how we started talking about this legacy. I love that. Austin.

Austin Gottron: Yes. Yeah, it truly is an honor. I mean, going back there and seeing John's old Rolodex with your guys' name in there and grandpa's name in there, it's crazy. But yeah, I mean, I joined just this past year and had some roofing experience on a crew as an estimator years ago and then got into sales with power tools and technology and went down to Texas and met Bella who helped us put all this together.

But always had Duro-Last in the back of my mind, was obviously very fond of Duro-Last, but got going with my career and was just doing what was working and had some great experiences, met some amazing people and just worked out where just this year, where we're talking and he had asked me to come work before and I had just gotten some different opportunities, but man, timing just worked out and it's been so fun to work with my brother and get to be closer to family all the time. And it really is an honor to be able to learn from these guys and learn from the best really, and also be able to carry on that legacy. And we're really not the only people that have been so loyal to Duro-Last. I mean so many people around the company been here decades. So it really speaks to Duro-Last.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I mean when you think about that and with Duro-Last and with your dad and grandpa, Joe Gottron, with you two starting... And I want you to tell just a little bit of the story about how you started bringing in everybody around you too. I mean some of your best buddies, that passion spread obviously to the family, but overall, this industry, roofing, is all about family. I mean it really is family. And so when you have this kind of family, you want to work for people who appreciate or represent people who are family, which obviously Duro-last and the birth were family, but also all the contractors out there, multi-generational family, it's everywhere. So how was it when you first started bringing people in and working with all these passionate families?

Jeff Gottron: Well, since Mike was the first national sales manager, he was kind of in charge of recruiting people. So what's funny, he's reaching out to his friends from college, people that he knew. One of my best friends from college is Buddy Wilson, who's been a legend in the Duro-Last family. He was working at a car dealership in Columbus and I was down for a football game and went to visit Buddy and I was so excited about getting things rolling. And Mike had just started with Duro-Last hiring people and said, I go, "Buddy, you need to get a state." I said, "We're going to be the world's best roof." I said, "We're going to be the fastest growing company out there." And he goes, "Well, can I get a state?" I go, "Yeah, Mike's the new sales manager."

Heidi J Ellsworth: Twist my arm.

Jeff Gottron: He goes, "What state can I get?" I go, "Anything but Michigan, Ohio or Wisconsin." So Buddy pulls out a map and he goes, "Man, Texas looks big." So sure enough, Mike ends up hiring him and Mike and I go down to Texas to train him. And then Mike hired some of his friends from college and it was really great because we're starting this thing out and anytime I didn't care if it was 1,000 square foot, 2,000 square foot, whatever, I sold another one today. And we're keeping each other motivated. And it's just fun working with friends and family and keeping each other motivated because-

Heidi J Ellsworth: Putting it together.

Jeff Gottron: ... it's kind of lonely driving. You put a lot of windshield time out there driving all over the state and your area, and there's a lot of alone time. But if you can phone a friend-

Heidi J Ellsworth: Bring in a friend. Well, and Mike, you and I were talking about this a little bit earlier. As you start your own business, and I've seen this with the RoofersCoffeeShop, people will say, "Oh, don't hire family, don't hire friends, don't do that. That's bad business practice." But roofing just seems to totally ignore that. We really believe. So as you were hiring all these friends, today, you look at the dynasty of the Duro-Last rep organization, you all created a lot of that and talk a little bit about that, going around and bringing people in.

Mike Gottron: Well, John Burt had a policy where you couldn't rep any other lines, so it was kind of somewhat limiting in terms of income and all that kind of stuff. So I had to call people at 6:00 in the morning before they woke up and see if I could talk them into it. But no, I think one of the cool things looking back, a lot of the contractors that we signed up at those times are still with us. And it's kind of like working with these contractors that are just good down-to-Earth people, but they're out there trying to build success for their family. And I've always been of the mindset like Zig Ziglar, I always refer to him. But if you can help people that you work with be successful, it comes back tenfold for yourself.
And it's just cool to look at the relationships that we've built since 1985 in terms of these roofing contractors and they're still with us, and now-

Heidi J Ellsworth: They're friends.

Mike Gottron: Yeah. Now, we're dealing with their sons and that's cool about with Chris and Austin and Trevor, it's kind of like now they're the same age as the people that we started with. And it's just really fun to be working with that second generation and see how successful these contractors have become and we've been successful because of them.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I want to follow that line because Chris, as you're working and meeting some of the probably young people who you grew up with as friends and family, how do you see this generational switch going and happening between contractors, rep groups and just... That's not always easy, this succession?

Chris Gottron: Sure, it can be complicated at times. It's funny, it depends on the dynamic of whichever company we're talking about because people are often saying, "I can't wait until I can control the whole thing," or whatever it may be. And people are like, "When's your dad going to retire?" And I go, "I don't know, but hopefully never."

Heidi J Ellsworth: That's nice.

Chris Gottron: Honest answer because honestly, I have a ton of fun with both these guys. And it's funny that you probably had to pull off to the side of the road to make those calls. And if you asked my now wife, Alice and she's like, "Who's he on the phone with?" "Probably his dad 17 times a day." But all that to say is some people can't wait to control the thing. And frankly, it'll be great when that day comes, but at the same time, I don't want to give up the fun period of right now of... My buddy, Kevin, actually convinced me, he goes, "Hey, do you and your dad get along?" I go, "Great." And he goes, "Okay, is he competitive?" I said, "Yeah." And he goes, "Is he good at business?" I said, "Yeah." He goes, "Don't you want to know that side of him too?"

And so I feel very, very lucky to have an experience that most kids don't have, get to see your parent in a professional manner, both parents actually, shout out to mom, that lady that gave him the ticket in Houston. "[inaudible 00:23:54] Why'd you bring that back?" She was not happy at the time, but hey, shout out mom. But all that to say, I feel very lucky. And the common thread of when I talk to others is, "Hey, I'm not here to change things. I'm hopefully here to enhance things and bring things that we've all learned from our different roles." I wasn't in marketing, I wasn't in sales before this, so I brought my skill set from finance for better or for worse. I was a computer nerd, so I brought some of those processes and systems in and hopefully, that's been helpful. It's not without growing pains for sure, but at the same time, I think the team that we've built is the best one we've had yet and loving every second of it.

Heidi J Ellsworth: That is so cool. And Austin, I just see you. You're over there, you're just nodding. So how has that experience been similar?

Austin Gottron: Yeah, it has. I mean it's really exciting. I think what he said resonated really well with me, was being able to see your dad or your family, your uncles in a different light a little bit, kind of being able to see really what they've built and see them in their element truly. So it's really exciting.

Mike Gottron: I'll tell you, if I could hop in one thing, I think one interesting dynamic is your son or your brother see you when you're happy, when you're not happy. They see every part of you. And I think some of that can be a little scary, right? But it's cool that we have the relationship that he'll go, "Dad, you're getting a little too excited." Or there's things he brings up of things that I don't get done or things I should do, but it's a healthy relationship and I think that's what makes you better.

Trevor Gottron: And to add on to what Mike said, and we've had a conversation, it's like you do have to have tough conversations. It's not always easy, but to be able to have that transparency with your family, it's a beautiful thing. And like Chris said, it's not always easy, but at the end of the day, those conversations need to be had and that's what pushes us forward.

Heidi J Ellsworth: We're a family business and we find the same thing. One of the things, and I'm really curious, there's going to be some questions on here that they don't even know I'm going to ask because I just... So Bryan, I'm going to ask you this. How are family gatherings? Do you only talk roofing or do you have any rules around that?

Bryan Gottron: No official rules. One of the many cool things about Duro-Last, they have an unbelievable national sales seminar and it's a great way for us to be able to interact with contractors who've had amazing years and celebrate them. But it's often very much like a family reunion at those things, which is a lot of fun. So we are from a big family, so getting everybody from our family together is challenging to do. So whenever we do get together, it kind of feels like the party is on. My dad was very much that way. His house was kind of just a very social gathering house. There was people that would come often and he loved to just celebrate life with people. And we don't have rules per se about talking. We'll probably chit-chat a little bit about business at social gatherings, but for the most part, we're trying to get around everybody and see what everybody's up to.

And I was going to say, just to kind of share a little bit about what was just talked about there about family is I can see how if people don't get along well, how family businesses could be challenging. And we're just really, really blessed to have a family where everybody enjoys being with each other. So I do run into contractors who have some of those combative relationships within their company and they say, "How do you work with family?" And I don't have a answer or solution for them. I just say it works for us and we're thankful for it. But I could see how it would be challenging for people if you genuinely don't get along with your family members. And we're lucky that we do.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Well, and like you said, Trevor, I mean being able to have those conversations and what I've seen here this morning is a lot of respect, a lot of respect and a lot of laughter, which I think goes a long way. So one of the things that... 1984, right? That's a long time ago. I know where I was and I was there a long time ago in 1984. What things have you seen change in the roofing industry? It's going to be two phrase, kind of like what things have you seen change? And then what are some of the trends where we're going? What do you think is important to the contractor? Especially, I mean, that's a long time, 41 years and a lot has changed. What do you think?

Jeff Gottron: Yeah, because back when I started, I mean build-up roofing was still the major player in the game. It was more than 50% of the market, probably more like 75% of the market. So when I'd go and visit contractors, they pretty much laugh me out of there. "What's this?"

Heidi J Ellsworth: "What's this?"

Jeff Gottron: "Smells like a shower curtain." And they'd laugh me out of their office and I just had to keep knocking on doors. And it was before cell phones, so I had to go get a lot of quarters and use the pay phone to call Yellow Pages until somebody would give me the time to listen. And so it was pretty crazy. And so we started in 1978, Duro-Last and back in '78, there was hardly anybody using single-ply roofing, right? So EPDM was just coming out, right? Trocal was like the big player and they were from Germany, and then they had all kinds of problems, which gave PBCs bad name, but it was non-reinforced, so they had the issues because of that. So things have evolved big time from that to now, where now, single ply dominates the market and build-up roof has gone by the wayside. Modifieds were in there for a while doing quite a bit, but there's the downside of that. So it's changed dramatically in that era.

Heidi J Ellsworth: When I think about the change from VUR to where we're at today, not only with single-ply, but prefabricated and that's such a huge thing. And that in itself with how the market's changing with labor shortages, everything else, in so many ways, Duro-Last was way ahead of its time. And so you guys, I've been in this... You're selling something and contractors are just looking at you like you're a little bit crazy because you're ahead of your time.

Mike Gottron: I think that's where John was a visionary, was the prefabrication, especially with flashings and everything associated with it. And I look at the other manufacturers kind of following behind because labor's probably the biggest challenge for every contractor. So John having prefabricated stacks and flashings and wall flashings and all the curve flashings, things like that was just really ahead of the time. So that was the big thing that we thought was a differentiator for Duro-Last. But I would also say technology just going from... I remember when I got my first fax machine, thermal paper and I got to save a three-hour trip because I could just fax it to them.

But stopping at pay phones and waiting at gas stations for phones, and I think that's one of the things that Chris has been able to bring to our company with just technology and how can we do things more efficiently? And I think that's where contractors that are successful using technology to help and then finding ways with labor. Back in the day, no one used subs and now, everyone uses subs and it's kind of like trying to find subs and the challenges of that. So I think that's-

Heidi J Ellsworth: And training there.

Mike Gottron: And training there. Yeah.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Okay. I just have to ask a quick question, did you have the big box with the phone on top?

Mike Gottron: I had every type of phone.

Jeff Gottron: The bank phone.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Big box. Yeah, the bank phone. Yeah. Sorry. Now, we're really going back.

Mike Gottron: Well, I'll tell you one other quick thing, roaming, I mean, my cell phone bills were $2,000 a month. $2,000 a month just for my cell phone usage. That's how expensive it was to have a cell phone. It was crazy.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And Bryan, you came in right around that time when cell phones actually... Because I remember I was getting the cell phone going, "Oh yeah, this is great." But what have you seen change since? I mean you grew up in it too. I mean, watching your brothers and then coming into it, what were some of the things that you saw that were kind of differentiated what you all were doing?

Bryan Gottron: Yeah, it's a good question. When I started in '96, I remember I'm still using paper maps and trying to figure out where places were. There was GPS, I had a beeper, a pager and a calling card. And so it'd be like I'd get something pop up on my pager to call so-and-so, so now I'm looking around where's the nearest pay phone so I can go? And it was just a different pace of expectation too. So I kind of learned in '96 kind of by the way these two did it. And when we were trained back then, a lot of it, we kind of referred to it as loyalty building activities, but most of it was spending a half day or a full day with one of our contractors in their truck riding from job to job to help them measure things and meet with customers and explain the differences about Duro-Last compared to other products.

And through that, some incredible relationships are built when you're basically learning about the challenges that they're going through, that you learn about their family and their things that they like to do in their personal life. I feel like as things have gone through time now, there's a little less of that, which is disappointing just because I think the pace of things or the expectation of things are just so fast that I would love to spend a half a day with a contractor. But the reality is they would probably say, "Hey, we got 40 minutes before we got to get this thing measured and done and whatever." Everything is just faster now.

But I think at the end of the day, I think consistency is probably all of our best attributes, that if one of our contractors calls us up and says they'd like to see us help them measure 1,000 square foot roof and it's a two-hour drive to get there to do it, we're going to say, "Yeah, I'll be there first chance I can to help you." And it doesn't really matter if it's a huge building or a small building, the reality is we're going to be there to help our customer. And I think that's where a lot of relationships have been special and that part hasn't changed.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I was just going to say that part hasn't changed.

Bryan Gottron: I agree.

Heidi J Ellsworth: That's the thing that hasn't changed. Okay. So future trends, what you're seeing out there in the industry, what are some of the things that are important to contractors today that maybe is a little bit different generationally?

Chris Gottron: Oh man, that is an excellent question. I would actually argue the opposite in that a lot of what they've already said still holds true as the number one thing today. And it's the relationship. You can be the fastest, you can have the coolest spreadsheets or software. At the end of the day, they want to know who they're buying from. And getting out and being that reliable resource is absolutely fantastic. There's nothing that will replace FaceTime, in my opinion, no technology. But at the same time, we're seeing different softwares pop up. We're seeing different ways to put down the material.

I mean, shoot, when I joined the business, Walker Welders were pretty common for me. But for these guys, that's pretty new type of stuff. So all in all, that's where the prefab sheets were always so much faster, so much faster. And then Rolled Goods came out and Walker Welders. And that's going to keep progressing, especially with all the technological advances that we've had recently. There are going to be more machine robotics, there's going to be more ways of doing takeoffs, there's going to be all different stuff that is wonderful for the industry. And I think the first movers and first adopters are going to have a massive advantage. I don't know how you guys feel about it, but the adoption tends to be relatively slow in the roofing industry for whatever reason. But no-

Heidi J Ellsworth: Always has been.

Chris Gottron: Yeah. Adopting to new things is not always the roofing industry's best trait, but at the same time, going with tried and true makes a lot of sense at times.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Well, and when you really think about it, Duro-Last was for progressive contractors. It was something to do prefab, to do white, to do all those things. So the contractors and who you're working with, especially the loyal ones, tend to already have a little bit of that mindset. And Trevor, what do you... I mean, taking that same thing down, you're right, it's a little slow, but automation, robotics on the roof, the new types of automated machines to the labor, what are you seeing?

Trevor Gottron: I mean, yeah, I think Chris hit the nail on the head. The contractors and companies that are going to be able to integrate the new technology are going to have a huge advantage. But it's not always easy, especially if they're making a profit and they're doing well with what they're doing, they're not going to be so susceptible to change, especially if it's working. But I do think, and honestly Chris is right, if they don't trust you and they don't trust the relationship that you've built, they're not going to listen to what you have to say. Even if you are promoting new technology or ways to help them, they're not going to listen if they don't have the respect of you and if they don't have the respect and trust of the manufacturer. So I think that is the most key development part of a relationship with a contractor.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I think so too, trust. And I want to come back to that because that is a key... But I would like to hear what are some of the trends, things that you see, Austin, are important now as you are out there in the field and you're talking... And you're brand new. I mean, how many months?

Austin Gottron: Yeah, just since April.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Since April.

Austin Gottron: Yeah.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah. So just in this time, although growing up in the family and in the business, but what are you seeing that this next generation is really caring about and that we need to be aware of?

Austin Gottron: Well, the end of life of your roof, being able to recycle your roof and turn it into other products, turn it into more roof, just save on your dumpster costs at the very least from a contractor perspective. But that's definitely one. But kind of piggybacking a little bit on that, something that is really important to contractors that I hear is just a manufacturer and a rep that answers the phone.

Heidi J Ellsworth: There you go.

Austin Gottron: At the end of the day, a person that answers the phone and Duro-Last is a prime example of that, but that's something that I don't think is going to change. Technology and everything, but the ability to get somebody on the phone be consistent and help, I think is the big one. But yeah, recycling and of course all of our Duro-Tuff colors is the biggest trend in roofing.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Okay, good. See, nice. This is sales organization. Let's talk about that. Hey, we have some questions and comments that have come through. So gentlemen, what is your favorite way to recruit new people? So new people into either your business or new contractors. So how are you recruiting?

Jeff Gottron: I go to my recruiting specialist, human resource manager.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And is it harder today with what you're seeing?

Mike Gottron: Yes and no. I think our best people come from people in our organization to refer their friends. And so we've had some success with that. We just hired a person that came from a referral from within our company, and it's kind of funny, a few years ago, we had one of our guys, Cory, that recommended his best friend Josh, which was a compliment that he wanted his best friend to work with. This was for Engineered Systems. But after we hired him, he goes, "Do we have a referral program where you pay us?"

Heidi J Ellsworth: I like it.

Mike Gottron: I called Chris, he goes, "Yeah, we should have one." So we said, "Yeah, we have one." So anyways, we gave him enough. I said, "If Josh stays on six months, we'll pay you." So we did that. But I think contractor wise, you've had some success as far as looking for people that fit in with Duro-Last.

Jeff Gottron: Right. And I'd say that we've probably had the most success of younger contractors that have very successful, let's say, shingle companies and they're looking to get into the commercial business.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I love that.

Jeff Gottron: And they know how to sell and they want to learn that the flat roofing, and Duro-Last has an exceptional in-house training program. And we also spend 40 hours out in the field with these new contractors to teach them the Duro-Last system. And then by having every job inspected by our... We have seven full-time quality control inspectors just in Michigan that go out and inspect every single job. So they're not only checking the jobs to make sure that they're done right, but also if they see something that they need a little more training on or they're giving them tips on each job, how to get better.

Heidi J Ellsworth: It goes back to that relationship and the training. It seems like that helping... You've already said it a couple times, but I just love this. Helping other people succeed makes your success. And that's really that contractor being able to get those contractors in. Bryan, you're like, "Yeah."

Bryan Gottron: Yeah, it's a fun process because the way I take a look at the west half of Ohio, I'm evaluating what types of contractors I have in each region. So some contractors like to go after large public projects, some might like new construction, some might like restaurants, some might small type projects. And what I'm trying to do is find the right balance of contractors. So in every part of my territory, I have contractors that are interested and qualified for all of those types of things so that we have good coverage that way. But one nice thing about Duro-Last is they don't care necessarily what the size of a company is, what we're looking for, are they good people that know how to install a good roof? So quality's important, obviously, are they going to pay their bills and are they the type of people that we can grow with?

And it doesn't matter if they're a million-dollar-a-year company or a $5-million or a $200-million-a-year company. If they fit those other things of quality and good people, then we're interested in talking to them. And another thing I'll add is when I started in '96, it felt like it was a lot more work to go out and try to sell contractors on why they should become Duro-Last dealers. And now, we get a lot more people reaching out to us saying, "We've heard a lot of great things about Duro-Last. How do I get signed up?" So now, it's kind of flipped to the point where we have to be a little bit more discerning about making sure that they fit the right criteria to join the family because we take signups seriously. We want to make sure we're adding good people that are going to carry on the name well if we're going to decide to move forward.

Heidi J Ellsworth: The common theme I'm hearing here, and we talk a lot about culture in a company, the culture of Duro-Last company, the culture of your companies, but there is a culture that also I think goes around contractors who are loyal to a manufacturer. And so the cultures have to fit across going from the manufacturer to the reps, to everyone in the field and to the contractors and in some way, to your clients, to the building owners who care about this. I know there's one more question I want to get here because I want to make sure we're answering all your questions [inaudible 00:43:51] come back. The next question is what is the most common objection to getting new clients? And hopefully on this question, we're going to say new clients are, let's say both, whether it's the building owners, the final or the contractors. Let's start with you Austin. What are some of the objections that you hear out there and how are you overcoming those?

Austin Gottron: I think a lot of times, it's just a lack of knowing what Duro-Last does and why Duro-Last is a little bit different. I think that's a big one. And just simply educating people on why Duro-Last is different, how Duro-Last partners with contractors directly and tries to make it a team effort all to deliver the world's best roof and vertically integrate the... All the different things that Duro-Last does, people don't know. And so I think that's just a big one, just a matter of people not knowing. And then also, like Trevor said, people having success, doing what they're doing, what's working is working. So why change if you're having success? I think it's just a matter of not knowing that maybe there's a way to be a little bit more profitable and save your guys a little bit of time.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Again, helping to win. Trevor.

Trevor Gottron: Yeah, no and I would say the biggest objection is their why, why did they want to put a Duro-Last roof on? Is it just because it's back Duro-Last and they have to put it on, or is it because they've heard what Duro-Last is and they're inspired by the product or they believe in what it is? So I think it's kind of figuring out why that contractor wants to be a part of the Duro-Last family, and if it's a good fit.

Chris Gottron: Honestly, a lot of it comes down to pre notions, if you will, where when we're walking into either an owner or a GC or a contractor, almost always somebody has heard of Duro-Last in some way, shape or form. With the contractors in particular, I can usually tell almost immediately if they're going to be able to work well with it or not, because they pull out their TPO or EPDM spreadsheet and they start plugging it in and they go, "Man, you guys are expensive." I go, "Well, you're not factoring in the things that make us different in apples to apples. We're lose that battle 10 times out of 10 if you keep using that spreadsheet."

And I said, "Okay, with your penetrations, how long does that usually take you?" They're like, "Two guys, two hours. It costs me about 150 bucks or whatever per penetration. And those are usually our leak points." I go, "Wouldn't it be easier if you knocked it down to one guy in 15 minutes per penetration?" And when that math starts to recalibrate, they're like, "Holy cow, you guys are cheaper." And we're like, "Yeah, you're comparing sheet to sheet. But if you got to compare the whole project..." And unfortunately, the industry has been trained like, "Hey, what's my sheet cost right now? There's a lot more to the project than sheet cost."

Jeff Gottron: Square foot price.

Chris Gottron: Square foot price, and total install comes down to it. And frankly, the thing that I think the best contractors understand is, hey, that time savings is big for that job, but if you can get to two more jobs a year, think of how much more profitable you could be. So it's nice to be like, "Oh, we got off that job two days early." What that actually translates to is more jobs per year, more profit per year. And that's the missing link oftentimes.

Owners and GCs tend to have [inaudible 00:47:28]. And oftentimes, those two talk to the contractors that are putting on TPO, use that spreadsheet that already puts us behind the eight-ball. And you're like, you're listening to the wrong group, but no harm, no foul. They're good contractors, they just don't understand our system. And then unfortunately, I'll even bring back what you said, where everything's happening faster and faster, is we'll work with an architect and a job will go beautifully and then the next job will come out and we'll see the same TPO spec from two months prior to that job. And we go, "Hey, what happened?" And they go, "We just don't have enough time to go and change on every job, so we're just going to copy paste it." And I go, "I can understand your hardship there, but at the same time, did that job go pretty well?" And they're like, "Yeah, it's just not worth our time type of thing." And trying to bring that value prop through on a consistent basis is what we try to do day in and day out. But sometimes, it takes, sometimes, it doesn't.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And there's so much going on right now. I love that upfront, really understanding that bigger picture. And then at the end of life too, with what you're doing with recycling and what the Duro-Last roofs can be recycled to really understand that and the longevity. I mean, there's just so many factors across the board. We could go for three hours. I'm telling you right now. I haven't even hardly gotten through my questions, but that's okay because this is so great. But there is one story and it comes down coming back to culture, to that progressive mindset. And Bryan, you were really nodding. So I want you to start about that one particular customer and how taking care of them, where it's led to.

Bryan Gottron: I'm going to let Mike tell it because actually, I was probably 11 years old or 12 years old when this actually happened, but it's a pretty legendary story and I love hearing it told, so I'm going to let... I'm not going to steal your thunder. Go ahead, Mike.

Mike Gottron: Well, it was in 1985 and I had just gone from working at Duro-Last to becoming the rep in Ohio with dad. And it was in Columbus, it was for Wendy's International. It was our first job with them, and it was in Columbus. And so we had a contractor order the roof, and they hadn't had a lot of experience using our product and got a call from the owner saying, "This doesn't look like I thought it was going to look." And so I called John Burt and John drove down, he was there the same day. We went out on the roof and he said, this is terrible. And he basically said, "I'll get you a whole new roof, but we're going to get a different contractor to do it so it's done right." And we did that. And since that time we've done 8,200 more [inaudible 00:50:23]. He took care of it.

That's where we got into better training and working with our contractors to show them. But we're still working with Wendy's. I was involved with getting that relationship started, and I'm very proud of the fact that the first three customers that we started with in Ohio, we're still working with them. And I think that says a lot about, just like you said, how Duro-Last does things, but how building that relationship with a customer but standing behind it, being there when they need you, those types of things.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And you all are Duro-Last, right? That's the thing that is so multiple... How many awards have you won? A lot, right? Between this group awards and the Duro-Last family, just on sales and leading it and putting it together. And so that says so much about what you're saying about Wendy's is it's the people who are around and having that company that backs you.

Mike Gottron: Right. Exactly.

Jeff Gottron: What I'm most proud of is we have a bunch of contractors that we've given 40-year awards to.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Wow.

Mike Gottron: Yeah, that is cool.

Jeff Gottron: Which is amazing. And so many over 30 years and whatever. So that's the funnest thing about my job. And everyone's like, "Hey, when are you going to retire?" It's like the guys that I work with, my contractors, are some of my best friends. So it doesn't even feel like work. It's like I'm going to visit a friend and they've become successful and because they're successful, they've made me successful. And it's just fun to work together and it's a win-win situation, right?

Heidi J Ellsworth: I love those. Yes.

Chris Gottron: One thing that is funny though, you brought up awards and awards are nice, they're fine. But I will say the one thing about our family is although we get along great, we're very competitive people. Very competitive people. And I learned quickly when I was riding with him and trying to learn the business a little bit, the first two questions at the beginning of every month were, "Where are our numbers at?" And, "Where are Jeff and Buddy?" Because we didn't really care if we were winning the award. We wanted to beat those two. And so it was simple like, dang it, they got another one. All right, we got to get out there. So it was just one of those where every single month, the same two questions come out, "Where are we at, and where are they at?"

Heidi J Ellsworth: And thus success.

Mike Gottron: But that's a fun competition. And at the end of the day, it is cool that when he's rep of the year, Buddy's rep of the year and it's been a great network of reps. I feel we have some of the best reps in the country, but we can all learn from each other and try to get better. And that's what we try to do.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Well, we only have a few minutes left. Like I said, we could go so long. So what I would like to end this with is a little bit of a speed round and it's going to be on your advice to contractors. From 2024 going into 2025, what's your nugget that every contractor watching out here right now can take home on what they should be doing for their business? Just however you want to do that. So Jeff, I'm going to start with you.

Jeff Gottron: Well, I still think it all comes down to quality. So contractors don't make any money on callbacks. So I think what Duro-Last has going more than anybody else is our quality control department and having a full-time inspection. We check every inch of every scene on every job, and Duro-Last is the one standing behind the warranty. So these guys are out there to make sure that that job's done right to eliminate the callbacks, which ends up saving them money in the long run. And it helps the reputation because you're going to get referrals off of good jobs. And that would be my advice.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I love it. No callbacks.

Jeff Gottron: No callbacks.

Heidi J Ellsworth: No callbacks. I love it. Mike.

Mike Gottron: I think mine is working together is better than trying to figure it out all on your own. And my goal is to try to be a consultant to figure out how can I best help you to achieve your goals, and where are your weak points and how can we help you? But I think that Duro-Last and even Engineered Systems, we're a sales organization and our strength is helping sell with them. So if we can work together, I think it's going to be better for both of us.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I love that. I love that. Bryan.

Bryan Gottron: Kind of stole my thunder there. I was going to go there.

Mike Gottron: Just glad I got go first.

Bryan Gottron: Yeah, there's a lot of incredible people in the trades. I have the utmost respect for roofing contractors and all contractors, and many of them know their trade really, really well. Many of them have not been trained necessarily in sales. And what I often tell my contractors is, "Isn't it a much more powerful chance to sell the project if I'm there at your side, helping you with the sales process so that I can be there to let that building owner know about how the warranty works, how we're here to support you as a manufacturer," and he's there obviously to make the recommendations for hopefully our product for that application. And it works really well.

I call it the power triangle because you got the building owner, the manufacturer and the contractor all seated at the same table. So you can have a conversation about what the concerns and issues and challenges are. We can all talk, and hopefully at the end of the conversation, we can ask for the order and do business together. So I just think to your point, working together is far more powerful than trying to do it on our own. Right?

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah. So it's so good. Chris.

Chris Gottron: Most people in the industry already know this, but for every two contractors coming into the industry, there are five leaving in the next couple years. So what I will say is to a degree, overpay, over take care of your people, retention is huge because that knowledge loss is more than any dollars and cents and the time away to recruit. The people you have on your team, take care of them. I mean, authentically take care of them because you're only as good as your team. And if you don't have great people, you're bound to fail.

Heidi J Ellsworth: That's excellent. Very good. Excellent.

Trevor Gottron: Stole my exact answer, but I had a backup one. No, to add to what Chris said-

Heidi J Ellsworth: I love it.

Trevor Gottron: ... good people are hard to find. So once you have them, keep them and take care of them and take the time, be patient. It's not an easy industry to break into. Be patient with them, develop them. And then my next one is for all the sales people out there in the contracting world, follow up on your leads. Whether it's the person that went out to the call or it's another person calling on that person's behalf, a lot of people just fail to follow up on your leads. So that'd be my simplest advice.

Heidi J Ellsworth: That's great. Okay, bring us home.

Austin Gottron: I mean, I don't think I have anything to add to all that. I would say just call us. That would be my biggest advice to contractors. Call us, leverage our help. We just want to help. And it's really exciting to be a part of these projects and see literally roofs go on people's buildings and really help people out.

Heidi J Ellsworth: You brought us perfect right around where we started. And that is your manufacturers reps are your greatest friends. They are the ones who can build your business, can help you maintain your business and go to that next level. And here is when the two leading groups in the industry. So gentlemen, this has been amazing. Thank you so much.

Jeff Gottron: Thank you.

Chris Gottron: Thank you.

Austin Gottron: Thank you.

Mike Gottron: Thank you.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Thank you. And thank you all for watching. I have to say we will be doing more of this. And I want to thank Duro-Last for sponsoring this, for making this happen. Talk about progressive. From the very beginning, you've heard it here and now, live Coffee Conversations. This will be available on Demand, so be sure to watch it and share it out with everyone, friends and family. And also be sure to continue to follow us because from here, I have to say, RoofersCoffeeShop is going to Innsbruck Austria for the IFD, International Federation of [inaudible 00:58:49], competition of 28 and younger. We will be live-streaming starting Saturday as we travel with the three teams that are going to be competing for the first time in this international contest. So stay tuned, get onto YouTube, subscribe and ring that bell so you don't miss a single moment.

Also, next week, Coffee Conversations will be bringing bringing you the 2024 trends report on... Hey, contractors from all over the country are answering this trends report. You are going to see it first next week, so be sure to join Karen Edwards and Lauren White as they bring this to you while Megan Ellsworth and I are in Innsbruck, Austria live-streaming from the competition. Thank you all and we will be seeing you on the next Coffee Conversations.

Mike Gottron: Great job.

Outro: Yay.