Patrick Fingles - Building Trust with Technology - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Patrick Fingles, CEO of Leap. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Intro: Welcome to Roofing Road Trips, the podcast that takes you on a thrilling journey across the world of roofing. From fascinating interviews with roofing experts to on the road adventures, we'll uncover the stories, innovations and challenges that shape the rooftops over our heads. So, fasten your seat belts and join us as we embark on this exciting roofing road trip. 

Karen Edwards: Hello and welcome to another episode of Roofing Road Trips from Roofers Coffee Shop. My name is Karen Edwards, and today's episode is gonna be a really fun conversation with Patrick Fingal, who is the CEO of Leap, to really examine how technology is reshaping trust in the roofing industry. And I'm looking forward to this conversation. Patrick, welcome. Thank you for being here. 

Patrick Fingles: for having me. 

Karen Edwards: So, those listeners who might not know, can you give us a, a, a quick few pointers about what LEAP is? 

Patrick Fingles: Yeah, so I always start with this though, 'cause I think it's important, especially for people to listen to this. So I, I was a roofer and window guy first. So I owned and operated a pretty good size mess. Started it and when I was probably 23 and ran that business for 20 years, and then most recently sold it like a lot of other companies are doing now. But new Look, home design was my baby. We started in Maryland and uh, we grew that to five states. We specialized in roofing and windows and siding, and we were not a storm, uh, but we did a little bit of storm, but mostly retail. And, you know, we grew the company like, you know, at our peak we were about $40 million in annual revenue. And so the LEAP is a software that was built inside of that company to solve particular pain points within our business. 

Patrick Fingles: Like a lot of good softwares, it, it started not, we didn't want to go build software for a, uh, an industry. We wanted to just solve our own internal problems. So we built it internally and then it took about four or five years and then we pivoted it out. And at its core, it's, it's really grown a lot since we pivoted it out in 2017. LEAP has been a tremendous success and it's one of the major platforms that's utilized. You know, we, uh, we work with obviously roofers. Where we really do well is we support Beyond Roofing. Um, so a lot of roofers are now adding alternative products like Windows or siding or gutters or, you know, doors or sunrooms. And so we support that process really well. And we support everything from, you know, from when the homeowner calls and you wanna schedule that appointment, you wanna dispatch it. We're very strong in the point of sales. We have a tool called Sales Pro that you use in the house your reps use, and then it comes back in. We host the full production management and reporting and financing integrations and the whole kind of kit and caboodle. So it's kind of a soup to nuts platform that helps you manage a project from kind of beginning to end and through all the point of sale. 

Karen Edwards: I think, you know, having been a contractor, so many of the, the tools that we have in our industry today that are, you know, top notch were those that were developed by a contractor to solve a pain point or a problem that they were having. And it worked so well that it ends up, you know, getting rolled out to the industry and helping others. So I love that. I love that background. And I wanna, I wanna touch a little bit though on, you know, technology, technology is, plays a huge role in everything we do, but it's really important not to lose that human touch. You know, we talked about trust and relationships and maybe we can talk about, remember when, was there a simpler time in home improvement? 

Patrick Fingles: Yeah, yeah. So that was kind of like the core focus. So like, you know, when we were selling, like, I had this epiphany, and I speak on this a lot, it's on brand. And I was watching one of our television ads actually one day, and it was our television ad. We were looking at, you know, we were saying all the same things. There was deals say 40%, no payments, you know, best service, better Business bureau company. And like I realized in that moment that everything that I was saying, this is about 2012, the company called, call it 10 or 15 years old. Everything that I'm saying is nothing that a company that started and opened their doors that same day couldn't say like, you can start a business tomorrow. You can offer those discounts, you can offer financing, you can get a better business bureau, you can offer a lifetime warranty. And I was like, there's really nothing unique about what we're saying. And, you know, I really wanted to try to carve out a different voice for us, really a different brand. And, uh, so we started like looking at the process and I was like, well, you know, this is a staggering statistic, but eight out of 10 homeowners would not recommend to reuse their contractor. Wow. 

Karen Edwards: Eight outta 10. Wow. 

Patrick Fingles: So it's a really high number. And so I was looking at it and I was like, well, all these people, like including myself, we all offer better Business Bureau lifetime warranties, Angie's List Super Saver Awards. We use the best products. Every one of us has the best product. And like, I'm like, and all that. The result of all that is an 80% dissatisfaction rate with your contractor. And I think when people hear that number, they're like, really? And especially when contractors hear it, 'cause they don't think 80% of their customers are dissatisfied. But I always kind of spinning it around. I say, do me a favor. Don't be a contractor for a second. Be a homeowner and think about all the times that you've hired a contractor to do a project in your home, a kitchen or a bath, and think about whether or not you would recommend or reuse that person. 

Patrick Fingles: And what percentage of the time would you recommend or reuse. And then it becomes a little more apparent. You could see it's like, oh yeah, most of the times, like, I went to hell and back trying to get my kitchen redone. Like, right. You know, I mean, it was like, so you start thinking about it from that lens and you're like, oh, I could definitely see how 80% of homeowners are dissatisfied. So I'm on tv, we're saying all this stuff. And like, you know, 80% like the customers, like it's not 80% of customers file a complaint against you. It's just like, if they had to do it again, would they do the same thing? And it was like, no, 80% of the time they would reuse somebody else. So I was like looking at that in the society, and I was like, and I went back to like, I tried to go back in time. 

Patrick Fingles: I was like, well, let's fix, let's not worry about how we got here. Let's rewind time and go back to when that wasn't true. And like, you have to, you go back to like 1940s, 1950s, like Americana, you know? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And like, so I always tell this story. I'm like, what are like, like, let's think of two names. Like, let's just try to take everybody there for a second. It's, it's 1950s. It's a small town somewhere. Right. And we got Mr, what's her name? What's his name? Like, if you come up with like two fun names, right? Like, maybe she's Joan. Yeah. What's his name? What's a 1950s male name? Like, you know Joan and Herb, right? Joan and Herb. Yeah. Like Joan and Herb living in a small town. And like one day, you know, they wake up and like Joan says to Herb, she's like, Hey, the, the toilet's leaking, you know? 

Patrick Fingles: And he was like, oh, call Martin. You know, and Herb leaves and Joan calls Martin. He's like, Hey Martin, you know, the toilet's leaking. And Martin's like, I'll come right over Joan. No, no problem. I could be there after lunch today. And he comes over and you know, he walks in the house and he brings his little tools, he says hello, and he is dressed nice. And he's, you know, he shakes her hand and she knows him and he knows her. And you know, she asks about the kids and his wife and he fixes the toilet. And like then, you know, she makes 'em a glass of milk, I envision or something like that, and maybe a sandwich. And he drinks it and, and she says, what do I owe you? And he is like, don't worry about it, I'll catch up with Herb later or whatever. 

Patrick Fingles: And he leaves. And you know, you know, later that day, herb gets home and oh, Martin came by and you know, herb goes over and he drops off $20 to Martin. And Martin says, thank you so much. And like the whole thing was negotiated without getting three estimates, without getting a price guarantee, without the Better Business Bureau. Right. And it was just like, it was this simpler time, you know? And I was like, well, how do we recreate that now? Like if you fast forward to today, I'm like this idea of like, people getting three estimates and like how it's evolved from that simple, like, call this one person in town that can do this project. You know? And now it's like this competition, it's competitive. So like, that's part of the evolution process. So, you know, it was like, you know, how do we, how do we get from where we were back then to where we are now? And like, do people like that? Like why do people get three estimates? And it's like this thing, it's like people get three estimates 'cause there's no trust, 

Karen Edwards: Right? 

Patrick Fingles: Right. And so that, the epicenter of that is price, right? Like there's no trust in price, right? So they get three estimates and like, pick the one in the middle. And like now it's like people are so brainwashed. Like homeowners are, like, homeowners are like, we, we, we have to get three estimates, or we wanna get three estimates and nobody wants to go to three grocery stores to get a gallon of milk. 

Karen Edwards: <laugh>. No, 

Patrick Fingles: Nobody, you wanna go to three stores to get a pair of pants that fit. It's like, no. It's like, we wanna do things that, like we wanna walk into the store and right there in the first rack is like the most perfect pair of pants, and it's like less than we thought it was gonna be. And like we put 'em on and they fit like a glove and we go on about our day. Like, that's how we wanna buy things. So we started thinking of like, how can you, how could we say that? How could we move to something like that? And, you know, that was really the epicenter of like the technology and how we kind of glued those things together of like, you know, how do you start to create trust in this environment of non-trust? And how do you start to create reliability in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a area of unreliability? And we, because we can't go back to like 1950s, but we can learn from the past. And we know that trust was the core element. So then we started looking at like, what do people trust today? Right. You know, and so like, you know, not like, I think the best example of that would be like a, like in modern day, like I think Uber's done a great job with that, right? Like, you take Uber's 

Karen Edwards: Oh, all the time. Yeah. I just was in one Saturday on my way to the airport 

Patrick Fingles: <laugh>. Correct. And like, did you take cabs in the past? Did you ever, were you a cab person before Uber was around? Or did you just rent a car? 

Karen Edwards: No, I have taken taxis and you know, they, they're never very clean and it just wasn't always a great experience. Right. 

Patrick Fingles: Yeah. Yeah. So I think, I think taxi cab drivers and if contractors are very similar and trust me, I, I am a contractor, so I can say this like, you know, we take great pride in like lettering our vehicles, like the taxi cabs, like all lettered up. Yeah. We put our licenses on display. Like we always show that we're like a licensed and bonded contractor. And when you get the cab, what do you see front and center like in the little placard is like that information, right? Yep. And like the cab de cab drivers got like the bulletproof class with like the, the thing for transparency on the screen with like the, the, the meter or whatever. So you can watch it, but at the end of the day, like it, you know, it was one thing to go out and like catch a cab in a city, but if you lived anywhere rural and you like, called like your local cab and said, Hey, can you come get me? Like, it could be anywhere between 10 minutes and like two hours, or they never came. 

Karen Edwards: Right? 

Patrick Fingles: Right. Like it was a really terrible experience and you had no idea what the ride was gonna cost. So it was kind of like, once I got home, I understood how much the ride was gonna cost. Right. But there was like a total lack of transparency there. You know, when you look at what Uber's done is like, Uber didn't change it. Like, we still get in a car with a stranger and we go from point A to point B and we pay for it. But like when you drop an Uber pin, like, you know right. Where your person is. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. 

Patrick Fingles: Like there's no, like, you don't wonder if the Uber, like every once in a while an Uber will cancel. Like, it's very rare, but majority of the time, like you trust it pretty implicitly, even to the point where it's like now, like you don't wanna drop it too early. Like when you come off the airplane and like you're going to like find where you get picked up from Uber's, like you drop it like he's only three minutes away. So I don't wanna drop it till I'm there ready to meet him. And it's, it's become a really reliable experience. And if you think about it, it's the same thing. You're going from point A to point B with a stranger in their car and paying for it, but like it's so, there's so much trust around it now. And how did they do that? They did it through technology. 

Patrick Fingles: They're like, we just want to take away all the pain. So like what we did is we did the same thing, like as our company. We were like, Hey, we wanna take away all the uncertainty and all the unknowns. So like, you know, the contractor, like, you know, like the homeowner's, like, we'll be there between one and four. We're like, we don't wanna be there between one and four. We wanna be there at two on, on the dot. We want 'em to know with a hundred percent reliability that we're gonna be there and we wanna show 'em that. Like we're coming at two. So we need to like automate that. We want them to know who's showing up, we want them to see a picture of the person. So we need to automate that. So when you dispatch a sales rep, like it shows 'em who's coming out. 

Patrick Fingles: We wanna give a little bio, right? And like, so it's like started with like this kind of like just taking all the areas. Like when, you know, when you, when you get your kitchen done, just imagine all the things that you're not privy to as the homeowner and saying, Hey, how can we give total transparency in those areas? So the technology was really built around all of that, right? It was like pricing transparency. Like a homeowner should know exactly what they're gonna pay. There shouldn't be change orders and things like that. Like total transparency around what you're paying and like line by line pricing so you know exactly what you're seeing and what you're paying for. Like, done are the days of like vague estimates where it's like, I can do it for 12,000. It's like, no, we didn't want that. Like we wanted the homeowner to see like the receipt that said like, it's $11,396. 

Patrick Fingles: So anyway, I, I'm really big, you know, the kind of like one hand kind of wash the other of like, if you take everything from the homeowner perspective that's not working for contractors, and you look at other case studies like Uber and you're like, well, we can use technology to bring them into the know where they are in their project. We can make buying decisions easier and we can make project management easier. And believe it or not, it's this huge homeowner benefit to that, right? So that's really what we focused on and, and I think that that's the future for contractors. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. Yeah. I I love, really love the Uber example because I'm thinking about it as you're describing the experience for the homeowner was the sales rep and their bio. And you know, when my Uber driver accepts the ride, well, first of all, I know what it's gonna cost it, they tell me. And if I need a bigger, you know, SUVI know that what that's gonna cost. You know, all the different options. And then when my driver accepts, I can see my driver's rating. I can go in and read about my driver and, you know, learn a little bit more before they even show up. And so I can, yeah, I can really relate to that. And I love that the transparency that technology brings, and I think that that, that helps me understand how yeah, this technology can create trust. So yeah, I think that's, that's, that's a fantastic story. And you've obviously been successful because you know, you're getting more contractors using the platform for that very reason. 

Patrick Fingles: Yeah. And it's just, it's just, it's iteration after iteration. Like when you say the review thing, like all contractors capture review and now, like what you wanna do is you wanna take that further and you'd be like, I wanna capture those reviews, tie them to a particular sales person, and then tie those reviews to a pre-sale email that goes out. So I can see that Mike, the guy that's coming out to giving me my estimate has four and a half stars and these are the reviews of the customers that are most relevant to me. And it's like, so here's the jobs that Mike's done. Like if you're a nationwide company, you have 3000 reviews. Like that might be good, but how relevant is that is me? Like, I wanna see the reviews that came from your area, right? So it's this, it's this constant iteration and and every time we think we, we like have it, like there's like five more things that come and you're like, oh, this is exciting, new things to build that just further provide that. 

Patrick Fingles: But like, I'm waiting, like I am as, as both as a consumer and a contractor. I'm ready for the days that the three estimate things goes. Bye-bye. Not because as a contractor, I don't wanna compete against two other people, but as a consumer, I don't wanna have to get three estimates, like plain and simple. Like from the consumer standpoint, how glorious would it be to be able to like, you know, say I need to get a new bathroom done, I know who I'm gonna call, I'm gonna trust the process and it's gonna be exceptional. And like, that's super easy for me. And it doesn't mean it's somebody that I've worked with in like established trust. It just means it's a business that's so buttoned up that like all the t's are crossed and all the i's are dotted and I know exactly what I'm gonna get out of the process and that's when that's where it needs to go. 

Patrick Fingles: You know? I just don't think, I think it needs to get back to a simpler time and simpler times through technology. So I think there's, there's lots of little things that we can do. And just for somebody that knows this, that this work, you know, one of the things that we really did to scale the company is like you can go on new little home design website right now and you can pull up like old YouTube, or not old, not old, but like YouTube videos of like the TV commercials that I did. And you know, like I, we changed everything. Like we would go on television and again, you can look at these and I would be standing there and I would be like, I would have like, you know, my ads instead of being like, Hey, we're licensed, we're bonded, uh, we can save you 40%. 

Patrick Fingles: It would be like, you ever have a contractor come out to your house and he walks around and he looks at it and he says, how about $10,000 <laugh>? Imagine if you push your grocery card up to the, imagine if you push your grocery card up to the register and the the the check here said, how about 250 bucks? Like, I, you don't want that. You want them to scan every item, you know, you want that receipt and you wanna look at it and see at new look, we use line by line pricing and it would go to like a graphic on the screen and we literally show our quotes and our estimates on an iPad, like how we did it. And we were like, we give you line by line pricing so you know exactly what you're getting and exactly what you're paying for. It's a big deal. 

Patrick Fingles: It's a big project and you know what you're getting. So we called it like TPT Total Pricing Transparency and like that called wildfire. Yeah. And people wanted to hear that. Mm-hmm. They wanted to hear that. And we thought like from a differentiation standpoint, like we thought that that was like a, a real differentiator. That's something that we could say that our competition couldn't. So remember the moral of the story is like me watching this thing be like, man, it's all air time and it's all leave costs. Were just getting so exorbitant they were going higher and higher and higher. I was like, we gotta find a way to cut through the mustard and what are we gonna start saying if 70% off instead of our competitions got 50% off, like at some point that's gotta stop. Or you end up like, Hey, we're 90% off. 

Patrick Fingles: You know, and it's like, you don't make any money <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. So we wanted to like cut through and we would say things like, you know, in new Look we give you, you know, you all your data's stored on a website, so you're not left looking for e through emails for a contract. Or he said, he said, she said, you know, what was included, everything is stored on our website that you have access to in your customer portal. You can communicate, ask questions, access all pictures and documents. Right? So it was like your to starts with like TA really detailed estimate and then the accessibility to that, so I don't have to look for it or find it. And if you have a service order or a service complaint or something's gotta be fixed, you can do that online too. So it was like, it was this constant thing of like just trying to, to show them that we use the technology. 'cause I think that's what people trust. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. I 

Patrick Fingles: Really do. You wish they would trust like the handshake, somebody will listen to this and be like, I don't wanna live in a world where you can't trust a person's word that you can only trust technology. But then I would encourage them to like go to the bank and be like, Hey, how much my balance in the bank says, I can't show you anything right now, but trust me it's, it's 350 bucks. 

Karen Edwards: Trust me. Yeah. 

Patrick Fingles: But like, you know, it's like these are big purchases and they're big projects and they don't know us from Adam. And like, you know, as a homeowner, you know, I trust black and white. I trust what I can see, you know? Yes. I trust what you're telling me, but I want that backed up in, in black and white. And I think that that's the, I think that's the big lesson. I think that, and I don't say this like self-serving, anybody that's ever heard me speak or talk, the last thing on my mind is selling software, right? It's the last thing. Like I think about how the, the how we're changing, how the industry's evolving. I think from a consumer, I think from a contractor, and the thing that I want to do is I just wanna evolve and support the process, but I wanna pay homage to all those things that worked in the past. 

Patrick Fingles: Like, I like coming out to somebody's house, I like sending them a picture of who's showing up. I like sending them a bio of who's showing up and maybe some reviews on who's showing up. I like sitting down at the table with somebody and going over samples. It's a big purchase. Sometimes it's a hundred thousand dollars. Right? Right. So I think there's value in that, but I also like putting all that in black and white in a very detailed contract with pictures on the contract and samples on the contract and colors on the contract and, you know, so that makes for a really good project. So I think it's a, I think it's a combination of both. 

Karen Edwards: Why do you think that that contractors are still resistant to that transparency? You know, is it just we're stuck in, we've always done it like this and that's how we're gonna keep doing it? Or are you seeing more of a shift toward that transparency? 

Patrick Fingles: Well, I, I, I think like it's, I think it's twofold. I think change is hard. So, you know, if things are working today, why change them? You know, change is gradual. It's like the housing crisis in 2008. Like, people saw that they knew where they were coming, they just didn't change. They just didn't do anything. They're like, we'll change when we walk off the cliff. Right? So like, I do believe like as a society, we don't want to deal with change. We really want to deal with like, wake up today, do what I was doing yesterday. It's worked for me for years. Kiss my kids, Hugg, my wife, live in my house and like go, this is our vacation. And like we just, as a society, I think we like to move forward and we don't like obstacles. We don't wanna have to make a left or a right. 

Patrick Fingles: So I think to a detriment as a society, sometimes we'll move forward, walk right off a cliff. Right? <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. Like we did in 2008. So, you know, I, I think things are slow. I, I think that you'll be able to be a contractor that doesn't adopt these things that I'm saying and doesn't do technology and you'll still be able to sell jobs for the next 2, 3, 4 decades. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. I mean a lifetime. But I do think a greater and greater and greater a percentage of jobs will be sold using the techniques that we've discussed here today. So I think it's just where you wanna participate in it. You know, adopting technology be hard. Change can be hard. And if you don't feel it's absolutely necessary, you know, I just don't think people do it. But when you think about it logically, like if you wanna be maybe a more forward thinker, you want to try to advance the business beyond what's imaginable. I think those, you know, I think that's always fun too. You know, it kind of breaks up the monotony. You know, people always talk about like transformation. And I went through a leadership training a long time ago and they said that, uh, you know, does anybody know what the difference between transformation and change is? Because people use the word, oh, we've transformed as a business 

Karen Edwards: <laugh>. Right? 

Patrick Fingles: And like they said, change is something that you can imagine and change is something that you can do. Like, Hey, we're gonna change it. We're gonna start doing digital estimates. Like, that's just a change. It's not transformation. You could see it, you know how to do it. We're gonna buy this software, we're gonna stop handwriting, we're gonna do this. We changed our process there. Transformation is like when you think about something that was unimaginable actually happening, that's a transformation. Right? So, you know, when you think about it and you're like, you know, like EI think Elon Musk does a lot of like transformative work. Like, like him or not like him, but he is just somebody that's relevant right now that I can think of. Yeah. But like, if you think Transformatively and you think about how people are gonna buy and sell and get home improvements done in the future, like are you one of the people that pictures like robots in the house, like installing cabinets and roofing shingles and things like that, you know, and it's all e-commerce and like, I didn't never even talk to anybody. Just my roof got done. It was like this super futuristic process. Or maybe they shipped a, maybe they shipped a, a VR headset to my house and like they walked me through my kitchen on a VR headset, which is really cool. Like yeah. If you think transformatively like that, the thing about transformation is it seems so far away and it seems hard. Well it's, it's not like the best way to explain transformation is like when you have a baby and you kiss 'em, you can't really envision them as an adult. 

Karen Edwards: Right? 

Patrick Fingles: And then one day you just kind of see 'em as an adult and you're like, oh my God, like you've transformed in my front of my eyes. Like 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. 

Patrick Fingles: And so like when we look at like children as a good example, like we always kind of see the same person. It's not until we look at a picture of them years before that we're like, oh my god, you've grown so much. So the point that is is every day that person changes a little bit and then all those changes equal a big transformation. So I think any contractor that's listening to this podcast can sit down at a round table and throw out ideas of what they think buying a roof would look like a hundred years from now. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. 

Patrick Fingles: Right. And it'll be this super like, transformative thing, but they just, they're waiting for it to happen, but they don't participate in it. But what they need to realize is it's the same as that child growing. It's a thousand little changes. 

Karen Edwards: Mm-hmm <affirmative>. 

Patrick Fingles: Equal that future vision and those changes are gonna happen over the next 20, 30, 40 years. 

Karen Edwards: Right. 

Patrick Fingles: So yeah, it starts with a small change, like a digital estimate. And that goes to, you can get an estimate online, you know, then it goes to, we actually don't do site inspections anymore. We use satellite for all that. Right. Or drone footage. And it's like, and it's, you slowly walk towards it and the next thing you know, just like you're looking at your 30-year-old daughter, you know, you're like, when did you become a woman? 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. 

Patrick Fingles: Right. Yeah. <laugh>. And it's like, you just, I never saw it. It's just 'cause it was spread out over so long. So I do think if you wanna be part of that transformative work, you can do it by doing all these little things, right? You just change one thing every day for the next 10 years. And trust me, you would've transformed your business. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. Yeah. No, very, very well put. That was really insightful. Thank you so much, Patrick. This has been a really, really great conversation. I just wanna encourage anybody that's listening that wants to start maybe making some little changes to reach out to Patrick. I know LEAP has a full directory on Roofers Coffee Shop. You can get all their information and contact information there and your website 

Patrick Fingles: Patrick, uh, leap to digital.com. 

Karen Edwards: Leap to digital.com. Awesome. 

Patrick Fingles: And just saying, uh, the name Leap, like where does it come from? Yes. 'cause it's not a small step. It is a leap. It, it is, it's supposed to represent the transition because what I've been doing for the last 20 years work, you know, we like our dry erase boards and our magnets and our file folders and like it works. We provide good service. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. 

Patrick Fingles: Like, I got this guy telling me I need to change my business. No, that's not it. It's just, it's a bunch of little changes that'll help you transform. So Leap represents that Leap Two digital represents the leap that it takes to move to digital. We know it's not easy, but I think it's, it's like climbing a mountain, you know, the, the way up is kind of hard, but the view from the top is just righteous and beautiful. So 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. Yeah. I would 

Patrick Fingles: Encourage anybody that hasn't explored it to explore it, whether it's with us or some other digital partners. 

Karen Edwards: Right. You know? Yeah. And I know you have a, you have a super team. I see them at the trade shows and they're just so helpful and willing to make that change a little less scary. 

Patrick Fingles: Yeah. We, we focus on it, we understand it. It's in our core brand values. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. 

Patrick Fingles: You know, so like we understand the challenges that contractors face in these changes and in, in moving times. And we didn't even talk about ai, which we're not going to open that 

Karen Edwards: Up <laugh>, that's another episode, right. <laugh> 

Patrick Fingles: Episode. Like, Alexa, gimme a new roof. Like, oh God, I don't even think about participating in that. What's gonna happen? Right, right. So, you know, so just don't worry about the transformation, think about it, you know, ponder it, have your focus groups and, and brainstorming sessions and talk about it. But it's really a bunch of little changes that will equal that transform transformation, you know? 

Karen Edwards: Excellent. Yes. Very well said. This was a great conversation, Patrick. I wanna thank everybody out there for listening. And as always, we encourage you to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform because we wanna see you on a future episode of Roofing Road Trips. Thanks everyone. Thanks Patrick. 

Outro: If you've enjoyed the ride, don't forget to hit that subscribe button and join us on every roofing adventure. Make sure to visit roofers coffee shop.com to learn more. Thanks for tuning in and we'll catch you on the next Roofing Road trip.