Luke McCormack - People Make Roofing - PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Luke McCormack from McCormack Partners. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Intro/Outro: Welcome to Roofing Road Trips with Heidi. Explore the roofing industry through the eyes of a long-term professional within the trade. Listen for insights, interviews, and exciting news in the roofing industry today.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Hello and welcome to another Roofing Road Trips from Roofers Coffee Shop. This is Heidi Ellsworth, and I am so excited for this podcast. I have to tell you, we are going global. I am road tripping over to Scotland with my friend Luke McCormack with McCormack Partners. Luke, welcome to the show.

Luke McCormack: Heidi, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here with you and I'm looking forward to getting into it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I have to tell you, from the minute I've met you, I was like, wow, this is so cool. Roofing Global, you've introduced us to so many people in the UK. I feel like something has really started to happen and it's been really exciting and fun to get to know you. So I want everyone else out there to know you and your team and what's happening.

So let's start out with introductions. Can you introduce yourself and talk a little bit about McCormack Partners?

Luke McCormack: Yes, certainly. So I am Luke McCormack, the CEO of McCormack Partners, an introduction on myself. So I was brought up in Glasgow, which the Glasgow is representative of 50% of the most deprived areas in the UK.

So I'm just a young guy that has global ambitions and I'm someone that's realizing my ambitions. I'm a very lucky man that's got great people around me, a great business, great clients, and I'm in the process of embarking on the most exciting chapter of my life as we completely moved the business from the UK to the USA.

McCormack Partners, we are the only company in the world who recruits exclusively in the US commercial roofing industry. My father, I followed my father into the industry. He had his own contracting business, and then he went on to work in manufacturing sales. So from very early on in life, I was aware of the greatness of the roofing industry.

My bedroom looked onto the garage and it had a sedum blanket, a green roof, vegetation, and this was like 10 years ago. So from a very early stage in life, I was able to see the beauty and what roofing can do. We had brilliant slates on the building of the house. We had the vegetation on the garage.

My dad was bringing home architects, general contractors. When had his contracting business, I could understand why a project manager exists, why an estimator exists, and I basically just noticed a gap in the market that there was no company set up to service the commercial roofing industry.

So McCormack Partners, we are the only recruitment provider within the NRCA, the only recruitment provider within the Institute of Roofing, the NFRC. About 90% of our work is in the USA from the east to the west coast. 10% is in the UK. We help contractors who are struggling due to the effects of the skill shortage, the generation gap, and the aging workforce. And we help these commercial contractors source specialist staff members from managerial to executive level, from within the US commercial roofing industry.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow. And you know what? We need that now more than ever. We need help on bringing more people to roofing, finding the people out there who want to be in there. So recruiting services right now is so important.

But as you and I have kind of talked about, you've taken it one step further in that you are really looking at not only bringing more people into the industry, but building the respect, and as we like to say at Roofers Coffee Shop, roofing respect, for the industry. And you have this really cool initiative, People Make Roofing, that I was lucky enough to be on one of your video podcasts earlier and it just is telling the story of roofing professionals everywhere. I would love for you to share how you started that initiative, how it works in with what you're doing, just kind of overall, what is it?

Luke McCormack: Yes, certainly. So for the roofing business owner right now, the prices of materials are going up, the availability's coming down, the price of labor's going up, the availability's coming down, the price of trucks, fuel is going up, there's more paperwork codes, regulations, margins are getting tightened. So it is hard out there.

But the biggest issue that I see that affects the growth of our industry is the perception issue. The perception that roofing is dirty, unsafe, no career prospects, and also the perception that the roofing industry only has roofers in it. The People Make Roofing campaign is our way of trying to be part of the solution of professionalizing the industry and bringing new blood into the industry.

Where I grew up, Heidi, it was a deprived area and I was lucky not to go down a bad path because I had good people around me. A lot of the young people that I grew up alongside, they weren't as lucky and they fell into that vicious cycle of poverty where this goes from generation to generation and it's drugs, it's addictions, it's poverty, it's gangs, and it can really suck you up. A lot of the young people that I grew up alongside, some of them have been murdered, became murderers, became drug dealers, drug users, and that sort of vicious cycle of poverty just gets passed down from generation to generation.

When I get into the roofing industry, I've seen how hungry the industry was for the younger generation to join, and I've realized that the gap was education. I knew that these young, underrepresented, underprivileged young people, they maybe weren't as academically advanced as others.

But I knew from people in the roofing industry that if they completed their apprenticeship, the world is their oyster. They can become a CEO, a project manager. They can get into sales technical, the associations. What the campaign can do is turn tax absorbers into taxpayers. It can stop that generational poverty going through as the roofer, the person, can bring stability to their family, but also they can work on projects that will last the test of time, that will be here longer than you and I, and they can travel the world.

In roofing, there's the skill shortage, the generation gap, the aging workforce. I believe that for every 10 people that retire from roofing, only one new person joins. And I've been speaking at schools, colleges, universities since 2021 about the roofing industry.

But I'm only one man and I couldn't do it all myself. So my non-executive director and I, David, started the campaign and since then, the campaign has been backed up by associations, contracting firms, manufacturing firms, and what the purpose of it is to shine a light on the career trajectories, the pace of what you can move up the career ladder and roofing is so much faster than most other industries, the money that can be made.

These young kids, no one at school is speaking to them about roofing. And the respective members of society that they see, first of all are school teachers, nurses, dentists, police officers. And what they don't know is that within roofing, you can make a lot more money than these members of society.

But it's not just about the young people. It's about the teachers, it's about the career guidance counselors, it's about everyone outside the world of roofing. So People Make Roofing Is where we have interviewed a lot of the key members of the roofing industry from associations, contracting, manufacturers, and we've got their story on how they got into roofing because a lot of people just fell into it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right. A lot of people.

Luke McCormack: Yeah. We've heard the story of their perspective on roofing before joining to what it is now. We've pulled the messages from the stories that they would give to the younger generation.

And we've also got "A Day in the Life Of." So what is the day in the life of a project manager? What does an estimator do? What does a salesperson do? People think that roofing is just roofers. They don't realize that someone had to design that roof, bring that concept into reality. Someone had to sell that roof to an architect and explain to the architect why it's the most fit for purpose, the best insurances, the most aesthetically pleasing. Someone had to manage a team to make sure a project was done on time, in budget, and everyone get home safely. We've got a massive array of roles and roofing that people don't know about.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Exactly.

Luke McCormack: So what we are trying to do is get away from this old outdated perspective of roofing and shine a light on the reality of the array of roles, the career trajectories, the money that can be made, but most importantly, the people that make roofing.

And we are shining a light on men, women, people from all levels, people from ethnic minority backgrounds in the UK people think from outside the world of roofing, it's just roofers and it's mainly white men. That is not the case. There's so many women who are roofing business owners, who are heads of associations, CEOs that have started from the bottom and climbed the career ladder. There's so many people from ethnic minority backgrounds that are extremely successful and accepted and roofing. And from what I've seen, not too many people know that.

So the purpose of the campaign is to shine a light in all these aspects. And our end goal is in May 2024, we have the Roofing Careers Hub. And the Roofing Careers Hub will be the lighthouse, if you will, for everyone who maybe doesn't know about the industry or wants to know. And it'll be a free educational hub to be given to schools, to teachers, career guidelines, counselors, parents, everyone outside the world of roofing, so that they can see the money that can be made, the career trajectories, the projects and the people. And it's our way of doing the right thing, profit with a purpose, our way of giving back.

And we have been speaking at schools, colleges, universities, apprenticeships, centers. We have brought new apprentices into the industry, but not just that, we brought professionals from other industries into the industry because of our knowledge. So we brought people in from the masonry sector, people from peating, people that were in general construction into roofing. We've seen people who are PG tour golf professionals come into roofing.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow.

Luke McCormack: We put an English teacher into a graduate project manager role. When he got the job, he said it was the best day of his life.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Love it.

Luke McCormack: So we are given collateral to associations, businesses, people that they can share with others, and we're giving people a platform to speak to the younger generation about roofing. And I know that there's so many people just like you that are real ambassadors, they're people to be proud of to be in roofing. So anyone that wants to have their story heard or to give a message to the youth, then reach out to me and we will interview you. We'll interview your staff. We will give you free collateral to put out because it's all come under the one banner of professionalizing the roofing industry and shining a light on what it's truly like.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And so many people, once you're in roofing, you understand that and you see how amazing of a culture we have in this industry. But you're right, other people who haven't been involved don't know.

And so I love the fact that you're doing these videos and sharing them with teachers and counselors and parents because when someone comes home and says, "I want to go into roofing," parents might be a little bit like, "I'm not too sure about that." But when they get to see all these videos and see all the people, and I think there's so much more out on social media, there's good and bad, but there's more good than bad. And so these are the types of stories.

I love what you're doing, and just because we're both kind of doing the same things, what do you see? Today it's video. Video is having this great effect on people. So what do you see or hear from people who do watch those videos and how does it change their perspective about roofing?

Luke McCormack: I'm glad that you've said that because this is my life, the business, the campaign. I live and breathe it. So I'm sharing this with my girlfriend's mom and dad, her cousins, my gran. I'm sharing it with people that don't know anything about roofing. And they're absolutely shocked. They're like, "Oh, my god, roofing can be seen as the dirty cousin of construction." But this has shown them that it's actually the best kept secret in construction.

So people are so surprised the type of people that are in the industry, the success within it. And I think that they find it quite refreshing to know that this career path exists for their kids or that could be a career change for them. So everyone that I have shared it with, they've said to us that it's engaging, it's actually keeping their interest, and it's given them points that they can then share with others, which is the purpose of it. So the response has been amazing.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's great.

Luke McCormack: I don't think there's many industries where CEOs of massive organizations, massive associations, would actually give up their time to do it. And so many people, almost a hundred now have given their time. They're not getting anything in return other than being part of the solution to the betterment of the industry. So the response that we've had over the last few years has been amazing, and it's really picked up a lot of traction in the last year or so, and everyone just wants to be involved.

So it's something that I'm very proud of. And to have the Careers Hub ready in May, I think that'll be our next milestone where people can actually see it all in one place and use it to give to others. So yeah, it's been great.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right, and I agree. To have that all in one hub is going to be so powerful. Right now, if people go out and they do #PeopleMakeRoofing, you'll find it and it will go to your LinkedIn. And that's where most of the videos are. It is great. And we also of course have that on Roofers Coffee Shop, so you can find it. We're going to have a directory for People Make Roofing, and you'll be able to find all the information there too. But I just think, I don't know, it's just heartwarming and it's so important for the future of our industry. I love it.

But I really want to also talk, Luke, because I'm always a little bit enthralled when we have companies from other countries come into the US market because there are cultural differences, and I'm very impressed. I would think it's a lot of work. So I would love for you to share as you are bringing McCormack Partners and also People Make Roofing to the US, talk to us a little bit about your entry into the US market, and you've been really active with NRCA since you've come on over. And so talk to us a little bit about that.

Luke McCormack: Yeah, certainly. So I had the opportunity to move to America about seven years ago. I had a job offer. I'd made the company, the staff, their suppliers. I literally had everything on a silver platter to be given to me, and the company's headquarters was in Vegas. I would've been given an apartment in San Diego. My first month of training would be in Miami. I absolutely fell in love with the people and the place.

But at this point, I was a year into start my own business. I had just hired my mom. And all my friends knew this was my dream since childhood, to grow the business in America or to be doing business in America. And I turned down that job offer because I didn't want to leave my mom and I didn't want to be there working for someone else. I wanted to get to America in my own right.

And now I've closed that loop. We're now in the US market. My mother is the operations director for the business, the headhunters within the business. They're like brothers to me, sisters as well. And to close that loop and come over with my own people, it's the best thing in the world. The warm welcome that we've had from the US roofing community is second to none. We were introduced to the NRCA from the CEO of the NFRC. So I spoke to John Evanche, spoke to Jeff Jarvis, MacKay Daniels, Reid Ribble, your good selves, people like Kelly Van Winkle from King of Texas. There's too many to mention, but every single person, the community of the US roofing industry have letters in with open arms.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's so great.

Luke McCormack: When we were at the NRCA's midyear in Chicago, we met everyone. We were wining and dining, having a great time with everyone speaking about the betterment of the industry, the image of the industry, how we can improve it. And then Reid Ribble's a great example. Reid's traveled two hours from his house to come and meet us at Martin's Barbecue in Nashville. He gave me an hour and a half of his time. He's introducing me to other people. Steve Little, him and his wife are in Glasgow next week. They're coming to the office, we're taking them out for dinner.

And it's just amazing to be brought into a community of like-minded people that have all got the same goal of the betterment of the industry. So for me, it's absolutely heartwarming and we're so grateful for the help that we're getting and the people that are bringing us into their communities, into their network and the NRCA, what they're doing for the industry, what they're doing for their members, what they're doing at Capitol Hill. It's inspiring and it's effective. And I think it shows that the industry is protected as well in its governing body.

So our entry into the US market has been phenomenal. And it's the people that make roofing and the people have been, they've been amazing. So yeah, I'm got a shiver as I'm saying this, honestly.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I know. I know. I've got a little bit of goosebumps myself. I love it.

Luke McCormack: It's just to find a community that has brought you in, whose values mirror your own, the betterment of the industry, doing the right thing, helping each other. That's what life's all about. And I feel that we've found our home in the US commercial roofing industry, and we're about a year in, and it's only the beginning. So very grateful to be part of it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Well, we are so grateful to have you. We are so thrilled that you're a part of Roofers Coffee Shop, I can tell you that right now.

And so I always love to talk business, Luke. So I want to talk just a little bit about your business model, because like we talked about earlier, it's needed. We need labor, we need recruitment into roofing. So you have a really cool... It's actually trademarked. It's signed method, so unique Search to Signed method. I want to make sure I say that right. And I'd love for you to tell us a little bit about that and kind of just your culture of McCormack Partners and how you go about the recruiting. So what's your secret sauce?

Luke McCormack: Yeah, listen, I'd love to share that. So the roofing industry is a very intricate industry to recruit in because there's so many small differences. So if a standard recruiter, if you ask them for the project manager, they'll give you a roofing project manager. But that doesn't always match up. What you want to match up is this a re-roofing person, a new construction person? Is it a service person? Is it steep slope? Is it low slope? Is it commercial roofing? Is it industrial? Is it solar? Is it vegetation? Are these major projects? Are they high volume lower projects?

So with having such a deep understanding of the industry, we are able to give our clients candidates that are specific to their unique market and their unique business. Our methodology, the Search to Signed method, it's completely different to what other recruiters have. Most recruiters, we'll get you a CV, we'll send it to you after reading your job description, and hopefully that matches up.

We've got a very unique methodology, which is specific to the roofing industry, and there are three stages to the method, discover, search, and deliver.

So the first stage, discover, every business that we partner with as McCormack Partners, we don't work off of a job description. I will have a one-hour Zoom call, or one of the senior leadership team will have a one-hour Zoom call with the client, and we fill in what we call the Search to Signed Form.

So within this, we take a deep dive into the business to find out the history of the business. Where did it start? Where are we now? What is the vision for the future for the business? What markets are you in? Is it reroofing, new construction, service? What products do you install? Where do you install it? Who do you install it for? What are the size of the projects? What is the volume of the projects? We want to know about the people in the business. We want to know how long they've been there for, examples of personal development. What do you do together out with work? What are you doing to give back to your community? What is your mission? What is your vision? What is your values? What are the key personality traits and characteristics that people that last long in your business share? What awards have you won? Who are your competitors?

We want to find out everything so that then when I obtain this information, when the headhunters are speaking to candidates about your business, they're not just saying, "Do you want to work for Murphy Roofing? They're recruiting for the PM." They're saying, "This is a special opportunity here with a business that started back then who have done this, who are doing that, where you can make an impact doing this."

And we'll also get the minimum requirements from the client. So say it's a PM. It's a good example. What is the minimum years experience you need them to be working in new construction with GCs or working in reroofing with blue chip end users or with multifamily units? What is the minimum experience that you need this candidate to have with products? What is the minimum experience of management? Do you need someone that's managed a hundred guys, ten guys? Do you need someone that's worked on £3, £4, £5 million project, million dollar projects, or do you want someone that can run $50,000, $100,000 projects? We want to get these intricate details so that every candidate that we bring to you matches up.

And with the search... So discover, we find out all of that. Search, it's then a 30-day process where we will create a candidate pack, which shows them the history, the vision, the people, the culture, everything about the business so that you know that your employer brand has been held to the highest regard.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Love it.

Luke McCormack: We've got artificial intelligence that has the entire US commercial roofing industry mapped out. So we can quickly have a hit list of companies to go at to obtain the staff, and we'll find someone who maybe they want something closer to home, or maybe they want a step up, or maybe they're in a business that doesn't have the best culture, or maybe they're looking for more money.

We'll find someone, we'll get all their details, we'll check their references, we'll vet them, and we'll provide very intricate notes, which covers everything that I've said. So you know from a first glance that they suit your business, that's the delivery. And you'll see your testimonials, you'll see what our clients say. Every resume that we bring to the table, we've got at least three paragraphs of notes as to why they suit, why they hit the ground running, and why we have chosen them from every candidate that we've spoken to.

So with this process, our clients, hundreds of roofing contractors that we've recruited for, 98% of the roles that we are given are filled. 96% of the candidates are still in situ after 12 months. And as a safety net for the roofing business owner's investment to be protected, we offer a free replacement up to 12 months so that you know you're getting the best service, you're getting the best candidates, and you're protected.

For us, it's not about a quick fee. It's about a long-term relationship, a long-term partnership. We are governed by the NRCA, the same governing body for the majority of our clients. So the trust factor is there. People know that we are not going to risk losing our reputation by doing something wrong. So the values of the business, number one value is integrity. It's always do the right thing, have the client's best interests at heart.

The second one is intelligence. Now that's market intelligence that we know the difference between a premium contractor, a storm chaser, a chuck and a truck. If you are a premium contractor, you want someone from a premium contractor. So we've got the market intelligence, the artificial intelligence, and the emotional intelligence to get people that fit the culture as well. Integrity, intelligence.

And the last one is innovation. We are using the most cutting-edge AI that exists in the market to be able to quickly get these candidates and quickly provide them to our clients. And we found that that's what helps the best, because what people need is specific candidates that fit their niche quickly.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Quickly. Yeah.

Luke McCormack: And we find that that sort of covers all of that. So if anyone is struggling with recruiters who don't understand their market, or they're struggling to find staff themselves and they want access to eclairs that they can delegate effectively to, that can basically help their business grow, that can get them as a business owner off the front lines.

Then the Search to Signed method is there for those roofing business owners. And it's a method that we have adapted it over seven years doing this, and it is a method that works. And you can read about it on the website, on their LinkedIn, and if anyone needs our help, then I will have a Zoom call with them and explain what to expect when working with us, which is reiterating those points there.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Yeah, I love it. I love the process. I love really understanding the culture and fitting employees to the company's culture I think is so important because that means long-term retention, which, it is not worth going through all that to hire someone if it's not a good fit. So what a great opportunity to have that vetting done even before the interviews.

Luke McCormack: Yeah, it needs to be done because it takes years to build a reputation and minutes to destroy it. So our clients need to know that if we put our name on that resume, we know they're the best in that area. We have checked the reference details, they fit your market and the cultures and values, so they'll last.

And the thing is that sometimes it's the fear of the unknown. People don't recruit because they don't have the time to do it, but the negative effects of not recruiting, if your business is tripled in size in terms of revenue, but you've got the same staff members, that's put a lot of pressure on them that's bringing down their mental health, which affects the culture. That means that they're not as effective. They'll make mistakes. It could be breaching health and safety. It's bringing down the end result for your client.

It also means that right now in roofing, there's so many opportunities, and companies, they're in arm's reach, but they can't take the opportunities if they don't have the right people. I also think it's a statement to the industry, if you're hiring A players from within the industry that can come in and mentor your other staff members, that can help you bring the younger generation in because you've got that knowledge base. But also as a roofing business owner, you shouldn't be running the business on the front lines. You should be growing the business, and you should be able to delegate effectively. And if you don't have the right people in the right seats, you can't delegate and your business becomes stagnant, and no one wants to work at a stagnant business, and everyone is competing for the same staff. So your own staff end up leaving and then it's all downhill.

So I think it's vital that roofing business owners are proactive and they're on the front foot of determining what is our culture? What is our employer brand? What are our gaps? What do we need? And we can consult with them through that entire journey as part of the process.

So yeah, it's needed. It's important. And with everything that we do, our clients' best interests at heart, we are not taking someone else's project. It becomes our project. It's our reputation, it's our project, and we want the best results for them. Because when it's the right thing to do, that's how you get repeat business. That's how you grow a business. That's how you grow the industry, and it's needed. And we love what we do as well.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Exactly.

Luke McCormack: Yeah.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It works. Wow. Well, Luke, thank you. Thank you. This has been so insightful. We've learned so much about People Make Roofing and about McCormack Partners and what you're doing for the recruiting. Welcome, welcome to America, welcome to the US commercial Roofing market, and more than anything else, welcome to Roofers Coffee Shop. We're so happy to have you. Thank you so much for being on this podcast today.

Luke McCormack: Thank you, Heidi. Thank you very much. And shout out to Roofers Coffee Shop because since we've joined, how responsive you guys have been, how helpful that you've been, how much you've helped us get our employer brand out there. It's massive and we're very grateful.

So if anyone isn't a member of Roofers Coffee Shop, it's money well spent. And we're in the attention economy now. So you need to be putting yourself out there. You need to be being proactive and a vehicle to get yourself out there is Roofers Coffee Shop, and we're very grateful to be part of it. So thank you, Heidi.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Thank you. Thank you. You make my heart warm. That is wonderful. And I just want to encourage everyone to check out the McCormack Partners and the People Make Roofing directories on Roofers Coffee Shop, plus obviously this podcast. Share it with all your friends, let everybody know what's going on. This is great stuff. This is new, inventive, and we're really excited to help bring it to the market. So one last time, Luke, thank you. And we'll be seeing you again.

Luke McCormack: Yeah, thank you, Heidi. I look forward to it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love it. And thank you all for listening. Here we go again. We're bringing new things, new solutions for your businesses as all of our podcasts do. So check them all out under the Read, Listen, Watch Navigation under Roofing Road Trips or on your favorite podcast channel. Be sure to subscribe and hit those notifications so you don't miss a single episode. And we'll be seeing you next time on Roofing Road Trips.

Intro/Outro: Make sure to subscribe to our channel and leave a review. Thanks for listening. This has been Roofing Road Trips with Heidi from the RoofersCoffeeShop.com.