Legislative Update - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Duane Musser and Deb Mazol with the National Roofing Contractors Association (NRCA). You can read the interview below, listen to the podcast or watch the recording.

Intro: Hello and welcome to Contractor Outlook Newscast. This is Heidi Ellsworth, and we are here to talk about what's hot in the construction industry. And I tell you right now, it's hot and it's all around advocacy and the government. So we are actually here at the International Roofing Expo 2025 in San Antonio, Texas and we have asked our friends from the NRCA, National Roofing Contractors Association, with ROOFPAC, to come visit with us and talk to us from a government affairs side to really what's happening and how it's going to be affecting the construction industry.

So Deb, Duane, welcome to Contractor Outlook.

Deb Mazol: Thanks, Heidi. My name's Deb Mazol, I'm with NRCA. I'm the director of federal relations. I came to NRCA about five years ago during the pandemic, I thought that was a great time to make a career change, but it's my home now. And before that, I worked on Capitol Hill a long time. So happy to share what I think and what I've been hearing.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: You have a wealth of knowledge for a long time, and it's so great for the industry. And Duane, we've worked together a very long time.

Duane Musser: We have worked a very long time, very productive relationship, and it's great to be here. And for those of you who don't know me, Duane Musser, vice president of government relations for the National Roofing Contractors Association, working in Washington, DC on behalf of the industry. And I've been with NRCA, it's actually 17 years now. Hard to believe. Time flies when you're having fun.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I know, exactly.

Duane Musser: And being very busy as we normally are, and especially busy right now. But a lot of opportunities and challenges for the industry right now with respect to what's going on at the federal government level, and we look forward to discussing it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, this is so important. And Contractor Outlook Newscast is really for all contractors, but you are focused into the roofing industry and have done such an amazing job with the government affairs through NRCA and then also with our RPAC, ROOFPAC, that I'm involved with, we're all involved in. But let's start with what we've seen happen since January 20th, maybe a little overview. So for those who may be watching or listening to this years in the future, we're talking about January 20th, 2025. And today is what, February 20th? So I think it's been about a month.

Duane Musser: One month.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: One month. So Duane, what have you seen since the administration has changed?

Duane Musser: We've seen quite a bit. And in fact, I would say we're one month into the Trump administration and of course a new Congress with control by Republicans, which is obviously the same party as the Trump administration. And we've seen the most consequential first month of an administration, probably since 1933.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow.

Duane Musser: 1933 was when Franklin Delano Roosevelt came into office, being elected during the height of the Great Depression. And he oversaw, in his first 100 days, a huge increase in the size of government, new programs to address Depression issues and whatnot. And to some extent, I would say and I think even President Trump right now to where he is with issuing executive orders, is rivaling the number of similar actions that FDR took.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow.

Duane Musser: And so that's almost 100 years, and I think it's historic. Whether you agree or disagree with some of the various policies, it's certainly very historic.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It's historic. And I love you bringing the history in, because I think a lot of times we get caught in where we're at right now and we don't look back and see where we've been and that this is not all new, right?

Duane Musser: Correct, yes.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: The changes, a little bit of the tumultuousness, has happened in the past many times.
Deb, what are you seeing since the 20th?

Deb Mazol: So as Duane mentioned, new Congress, new administration, lots of changes. The Senate has a wider margin of control than they had before. What we've been following since January 20th is a lot of the cabinet nominees. So they right now have about 18 of their 22 nominees confirmed, so a very quick pace they've been getting them through. They've only had one casualty. They had to withdraw Matt Gaetz, his nomination. But the rest have gone through pretty unified with a very, at times, split Republican Party. They've all gotten on board with most of the nominees. We're still waiting on the labor nominee from your neck of the woods.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes, who we visited while she was in Congress.

Deb Mazol: That's right, that's right, Lori Chavez-DeRemer. And that will be a historic one as well. And then the trade representative is still waiting to be confirmed, two key cabinet positions for the roofing industry.
We've also been following DOGE. You can't go online without finding DOGE, which stands for Department of Government Efficiency. So they're actually housed under, I believe, one of the technical offices of the executive branch. And their statute is modernizing federal technology and software to maximize efficiency and productivity. Sounds really good. They have until July 4th, 2026 to complete their mission, so they gave themself a-

Heidi J. Ellsworth: A year and a half.

Deb Mazol: ... a date, a very important independence date. But what they're mainly looking at is shrinking the federal workforce. So right now we have about three million federal workers. It goes down to 2.4 if you take out US Postal Service, which is on a different funding stream with stamps and the services they provide. And they're looking to cut that down by two million. So they're looking to get rid of about 400,000 workers.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow.

Deb Mazol: Yep. So, begs the question, who's going to do those jobs? Is it a software? Is it automation? Is it AI? Are we going to find out, "Wait, wait a second. We needed all those people. We need to bring them back"? It's probably going to be a mix of both.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: A combination.

Deb Mazol: That's right. And so most departments now have been tasked with a cadre of DOGE employees, and they're going through outside of the normal organizational chart and saying, "Okay, well why do you do things this way? Why do you do things that way?" And a lot of it, as you can imagine in the federal government, is just very outdated software that doesn't talk to one another, which is a problem.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: We see that in the private sector. We see that in roofing. In fact, that has been the big push in the last couple of years, integration between the softwares and the government's just starting to catch up or are being forced to catch up, shall we say.

Deb Mazol: Trying to catch up, yeah. They're behind.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, forced to catch up. It's been interesting because I really did think about that, and I was thinking the other day about, "Okay, all these people who are leaving the government, do we want to start recruiting for roofing and for construction?" Because we have a labor shortage.

Deb Mazol: That's a very good point.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I know. We have a labor shortage, I think we need to have a ad campaign, "Come join the construction trades. It's better than government."

Deb Mazol: I'm going to do that. I'm going to to ask McCain, yeah.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, it's better than government. So, when you guys were talking about Trump's administration, you're really talking about some primary legislative goals. I don't know, I mean, I think some of the goals were pretty much stated clearly up front, whether people believed them or not. But some of it, I think people are still like, "Okay, what's the goal?" Especially when you start getting around tariffs and some of those other things. But what are you seeing, legislative, as some of the goals in this first 100 days or even this first year?

Duane Musser: Yeah, certainly immigration and border security is a major focus for President Trump. He campaigned on it, it was a major theme or maybe even the major theme of his campaign. And I think what he is doing in that respect meshes with what the Republicans in Congress want to do. And so first of all, he established or I guess had issued nine executive orders on day one. Having the border secure was the most of any, I think, area in terms of executive orders that he issued. And basically that focuses on stabilizing the southern border with what's been happening down there on the ground, and then also combating illegal immigration within the interior of the US. And that's certainly of great interest to the roofing industry.

So administration officials have said they are primarily focused on those with criminal records, those with existing deportation orders. However, President Trump has been clear that anybody who's here unlawfully is subject to removal. So that's something we're watching very carefully. And with respect to legislation in Congress, Republicans are working on legislation that will include more funding for enforcement activities in that regard. And so that's going to be key.

Deb Mazol: Wow.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow. And what are you seeing in some of the other goals?

Deb Mazol: Yeah, some of the other goals, tax reform is going to be key this year. We have a lot of provisions that were passed in 2017 when Trump was last in office that expire at the end of this year, so that's going to be part of any large package. Tariffs will probably be less likely to be dealt with in a legislative vehicle. I think that will be more of an executive level decision. It will probably go up and down and up and down, and it will be hard to follow or at least hard to predict, I should say.

So I'm telling people, "Don't panic. Just prepare, do what you would do with your business as just a normal business decision. Diversify your supply chain, know your customers, know your suppliers and work with those relationships to try to figure out, maybe you're getting a tariff this way, but maybe there's a way to alleviate some of the other day-to-day business challenges that you have, whether it's domestic permitting, tax reform, items like that."

He didn't do any tariff announcements on day one, which was a little bit surprising, but he has gotten into those as we got a little further down the pike. And I know we'll talk about tariffs in a little more detail later. But I think that this year, the first year of any presidency is the most likely to get anything done and through Congress. It's fresh off the election. They'll either do one bill that includes immigration, defense, defense policy or reform, taxes and energy.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: All in one bill.

Deb Mazol: All in one enchilada. That's the House strategy right now, because they only have one or two votes to spare on their side. Trump has come out pretty strongly in support of the one-bill strategy. The Senate, however, is proceeding with a two-bill strategy currently. So today they're going to pass a budget that would first tackle immigration, energy and defense, which they view as some of the more, I don't know if "easy" is the right word, but something that unifies their party a lot more than tax reform, which gets very technical and very in-the-weeds very quickly.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right, right. And I know when we have gone to Roofing Day in the past, tax, taxes, Main Street tax reform or not tax reform, but continuing the Main Street has been very, very important. So with the new administration and the Senate and the Congress or the House of Representatives, where do you see NRCA and the roofing industry aligning with what's supporting some of the things that are going on? And then what are some of the areas that we need to do some strong lobbying on to help?

Duane Musser: Yeah, sure. Certainly tax is an area where we align, and Deb spoke to that in specifics. We're very much in line on that. Regulatory policy, not necessarily legislative, but regulatory policy. President Trump has issued an executive order with respect to eliminating 10 regulations for every new regulation they want to move forward on. And I think generally speaking, that'll be in line with our views on regulatory policy.

And then I think some of the challenges are on immigration, not so much with respect to what's going on in enforcement but with respect to legal immigration. We have seen the Trump administration, with respect to temporary protected status, we have a lot of employees with temporary protected status and also the DACA program, there's some challenges there as to how that's going to shake out with what the Trump administration wants to do and with what Congress wants to do. And then also, we would like to see, as we made a focus during Roofing Day, a provision, some type of visa for legal immigration to meet workforce needs.

And then also another area we think there's real opportunity with respect to workforce is the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act, which is federal legislation and a current law which provides funding that goes to state and local governments for workforce training programs. And it's different state by state, because we want states to have a role. And we've seen some of our members take advantage of these programs to address their workforce needs, but many of them have been stymied by excess bureaucracy and too much paperwork  and not effective programs.

So we've worked on legislation to reform the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act. We were very close, thanks to Roofing Day and the members coming and advocating on Capitol Hill for the last, I think, three years, I believe. And we were very close to getting a bipartisan, bicameral bill through Congress last year. Didn't quite make it, and we're going to build on that for this year. We're going to focus on it during Roofing Day coming up. It's a really great opportunity. So again, if you haven't been to Roofing Day, you're really need to get here.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. We're going to talk about that. Yeah, you got to do it. I know. Well, and it's really interesting too, do you see some of the issues that we were working on last year having a better chance this year or do you think that bill that we worked on last year is going to look a little bit better?

Deb Mazol: Yeah, I think so. They've reintroduced the Main Street Tax Certainty Act, which would provide permanency for the 199A qualified business deduction. So what that provision did was ensure that any company that's organized as a pass-through business, LLC, S Corp, they are able to have a very similar tax rate to the C corporation, to make it fair and make sure that our tax policy isn't incentivizing one type of business over another.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: We're very much in favor of that.

Deb Mazol: Yes. Yes, ma'am.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Just saying.

Deb Mazol: And we've done that for the past few years at Roofing Day, and this year the bills have been reintroduced. We blew the record out of the water for original cosponsors. So right now we have 42 in the Senate.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow.

Deb Mazol: We ended last time with about 32, so that's a big deal. And then in the House, we're up to about 170, 180.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Holy cow.

Deb Mazol: Yeah, and the last [inaudible 00:15:01], we got to-

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow.

Deb Mazol: ... I think it was 196. I was looking for those extra four to get to 200, but we didn't quite get there. So we've definitely made a difference. The biggest part now is, because it is a tax issue, and it's a little bit technical with what a pass-through business is, we just need to get in the offices and talk through and educate those staffers on what it means to our industry.

We at NRCA have participated in a handful of roundtables in Dallas, and Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Oklahoma, to really educate members right on the ground of the value of these and give them real world examples for, "I saved 100,000 in my taxes this year. We were able to open a daycare onsite for our employees." Real life examples. So, making great progress. I think that's probably our best chance. Just because it is an expiring provision, there'll be a catalyst to act.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, that's great.

Deb Mazol: And there's wide support for it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: There's wide support. And it's pretty bipartisan, right?

Deb Mazol: Yep. In the House, we have bipartisan support. I think what we've heard from when we've talked to offices one-on-one is that they do support the provision, but they have higher priorities that they would like to see themselves focus on, whether it's the child tax credit or different individual items. So they don't oppose our bill, they're just less focused on it, I would say.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Less focused, yeah. And that's why Roofing Day is so important as we go talk to our representatives.

Duane Musser: Absolutely.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And I've been talking on this topic now for the last couple of years as we go and [inaudible 00:16:33] with it and trying to get that put through.

So I want to talk about the tariffs, because we are there. Because looking down through our questions, and we've been answering our questions as we've been going, so this is very good. But everybody wants to know about the tariffs-

Deb Mazol: Let's get in, yeah.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: ... so let's talk about that. So Deb, why don't you start? What's going on?

Deb Mazol: Yeah, so I know you said, "What is a tariff? Who pays it?" Essentially, the importing company pays the tariff to the government. So if you are Heidi Ellsworth and you want aluminum, for example, you have to pay a tariff as it comes in. We do, in United States, when we send stuff out, other countries charge us tariffs to a varying degree on different products. It's usually a percentage of the product's value. So you probably heard a lot about 25% tariff on all imports from Mexico and Canada, that was an announcement in early February. The proposal was a 25% tariff on imports unless there was notable progress made on immigration assistance. So Mexico and Canada came to the table and said, "Okay, these are the things we're going to do on immigration enforcement." So those tariffs are currently paused until March 4th.

So if you get your supplies from Canada or Mexico, you might want to think, "Okay, can I get them domestically? Can I figure out a way to absorb those without raising prices on customers too much," but also making sense with your own business decisions?

Fast-forward, if you're trying to think about, "Okay, where's Trump's policy going to go next?" Before he announced any tariffs, after this Canadian and Mexico announcement, he released the America First Trade Policy. That is going to be his blueprint for where we go next. What it did was it tasked the Commerce Department, the US Trade Rep, and the Treasury Department to take a very hard look at all the macroeconomic indicators of tariffs. So what do they mean on supply chain challenges? What do they mean for small businesses? What are maybe critical components that we can only get from certain countries? And they are all putting that information together, and these reports are due on April 1st. So that's the next [inaudible 00:18:56]-

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So March 4th, April 1st, okay. And you'll all be hearing this March, 2025, this Contractor Outlook Newscast, so you'll be right in the thick of it.

Deb Mazol: Exactly. And then after the Canadian and Mexico tariffs were put on hold on February 10th, Trump ratcheted back up, as expected, his tariffs on steel and aluminum. So, his first administration, they had steel and aluminum tariffs with a fair amount of exceptions based on a case by case, company by company basis.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: [inaudible 00:19:29]

Deb Mazol: President Biden kept those in place. Now, President Trump is continuing to keep those in place, but he raised those to 25%. He also took away, or he has said, he will not be allowing as many exceptions this time around. So we'll see how that plays out. I don't know that there's been a ton of guidance on specifics, but we're watching for those.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: While we're on that one, let me ask you both the question about that. Because metal roofing, metal siding, metal buildings in general are seeing a huge increase in demand due to severe weather, resiliency, sustainability, all of those things. And so in talking to the metal suppliers, the manufacturers, there is a large concern about, "We are now seeing this high demand, yet now we're also going to be dealing with higher tariffs." Have you heard anything around that?

And you're nodding so, Duane, I'm going to start with you. That really could have some huge effects on the construction industry.

Duane Musser: Yeah, yeah. It's uncertain right now, but it's certainly going to have impacts. I was talking with a metal manufacturer just two evenings ago here at our ROOFPAC event, and he thinks it's manageable, but we don't know because this is a little bit of unchartered territory. So it's something we're watching very, very carefully and advising our members, "Plan for this, look for alternative suppliers where you can, there may be some exemptions." So there may be opportunities there, but there's a lot of uncertainty and a lot of potential impact.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So this is going to be a little bit of an uninformed question, but I am just curious. You were just saying this started actually in the first Trump administration, then Biden kept it and now we're raising it again. What are some of the drivers for focusing on steel and aluminum in that? Is it to buy American? Can we buy American? What's the driver?

Duane Musser: [inaudible 00:21:28]

Deb Mazol: Yeah, buy American, that's the main goal around it. That's the main goal around a lot of these tariffs, not only to decrease the trade deficit that America has, bring in additional revenue for the government, our budget situation is pretty dire. I think Trump's campaign promises of 10% universal tariffs and then 50% or higher on China tariffs, that would bring in about a little less than $4 trillion. So that could pay for a lot of the tax extensions and things like that. So protecting domestic manufacturing, hopefully incentivizing people to bring it back. Can we do it? Yes, but how long will it take to ratchet that up? Because now it's a different economic... It's different calculus that you have. If this is costing 25% more, can you make it here for less than 25% increase?

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right. And what does it take to get our steel mills back to where they were? I mean, obviously at one point we led with that, but is our economy, is our workforce ready for that, to be able to bring those back or just pay higher prices?

Duane Musser: That's a big question right there. [inaudible 00:22:41]

Deb Mazol: Every person will have to make that-

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I know. I know, I find it fascinating.

Deb Mazol: There is one more tariff item I'll mention, if we can.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes, please. Sorry.

Deb Mazol: No, because this is one to watch. So on February 13th, President Trump, which is similar to his campaign promise of 10% universal tariffs, he announced a fair, free and reciprocal trade plan. So part of these reports that are going to be due on April 1st, he tasked Commerce and Treasury to look country by country and see, "Okay, if we're selling ethanol," for example, "the US tariff on ethanol currently when we bring it in is 2.5, the import tariff. Yet Brazil, when you send US ethanol to Brazil, that is, let's see here, 18%." So he's going to be looking at, "Okay, how do we make those numbers equal," or how do we negotiate something with that country, whether it's a foreign policy action or a different driver of something else he's trying to get at. He's going to look at, "Okay, why are charging us 18% to sell our products into your market, but we're only charging you 2.5%?"

So my advice is, look at a country that... Say you get a lot of materials from Ecuador, for example, if you see that there's an imbalance there, you can expect that that imbalance is going to be addressed probably in the April 1st announcement.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow.

Deb Mazol: So I would look country to country on that.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And so we'll keep going on that, and so what kind of effect? So if we basically are looking for balance, that means we're going to be paying more when it's coming in?

Deb Mazol: Yep. Likely those costs will be passed off. In 2019, a report found that 132 countries and more than 600,000 product lines, United States exporters face higher tariffs more than two thirds of the time. So that's a lot of products you're looking at that could be affected, two thirds of 600,000.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It makes you think too, this is in construction, but it's also, I think, in everything, but it also makes you think about just how resilient is our consumers and how much is that going to change spending habits? Because I think certain things will go up and they'll be like, "Well, I really don't need that anyway." And I think a lot of people are going simpler, and so this could have a lot of changes.

But on the other side, and this is just my own two cents, I do feel that what we're seeing in home building and taking care of our homes is taking priority and people are willing to pay more for the resiliency, the durability and the protection of their homes. So for construction, we may be able to weather this better this time or they're going to make different decisions.

Duane Musser: I think that's a good way to look at it. Absolutely.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, yeah. That's interesting. Okay, so we talked about the tax cuts and the sunsetting, is there anything else we should be looking at? I mean, hopefully the Main Street, everything will go good, but are there any other tax issues for the construction industry that are going to be affecting us?

Duane Musser: [inaudible 00:25:43]

Deb Mazol: Yep. Buy a little [inaudible 00:25:44].

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love it. I love it.

Deb Mazol: One thing that we're looking at on the other side of extensions is, how do we keep in place those tax incentives that don't expire, but could be on the chopping block due to budgetary concerns or political concerns that, maybe they were passed under President Biden and they're not as favorable under President Trump? So we're looking at a lot of the energy efficiency tax incentives that were passed as a part of the Inflation Reduction Act in 2022. Yeah, I think it was in 2022.

There was about 433 billion of energy, security and climate change priorities. In our industry, there was, I'll rattle them off, you can look them up later, 25C, 48. 48 deals with a lot of the commercial investment tax credit, a lot of solar, renewable energy. 25C is residential energy property credit. 179D, that's a commercial tax incentive credit for energy efficient buildings. And then also 45L, which is a new energy efficient tax credit. So if you build your house to be more efficient for Roofing Day this year, which is April 8th and 9th, which we'll plug fully later... We'd love to have you. We get together about 200, 300 of our closest friends and we talk about what's important to the industry. This year in the energy efficiency space, we are going to advocate for the protection of the 179D, which is the commercial side energy efficiency as well as the... Remind me, are we doing 45L or 25C?

Duane Musser: 45L.

Deb Mazol: 45L. They're both residential. So we're doing a residential energy tax credit protection. What we've seen from the Trump administration so far in the Congress is, on the energy tax incentive front, probably their top priority is rolling back the electric vehicle credits. So hopefully ours are going to be lower on the list, lower on the chopping block, but we're going to keep advocating for the protection of those and keeping them in place.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, I think there is and I've heard that as we've been here at the IRE, people with concerns of what's going to happen to some of that infrastructure. Is it going to be pulled back? Are we going to get it? We've also... And you know what, I'm going to throw this out here at this time even though this wasn't on your questions, so-

Deb Mazol: We can take care of that curveball.

Duane Musser: Curveball.

Deb Mazol: Duane can have this.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. So one of the things we're hearing from several contractors also is concerns about the DEI changes. And so especially for minority owned businesses who do almost all federal work, is that going to change? Is there going to be changes there? And I think there's a lot of uncertainty and probably not informed information, but anything on that?

Duane Musser: We've been watching that. The administration has come in and established a policy of, generally speaking, doing away with DEI programs. Now, then you do have to get down into the weeds as to what exactly that is, because there are programs at SBA that many of our members which may or may not fall into that category, we have yet to see, because it's going to filter down. But it certainly has the potential to have some impacts. So absolutely, that's another thing we're watching.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It's been really interesting, and hearing that a lot because a lot of people have built their businesses around that federal work and they're veterans, they're women, they're different, Black, Hispanic, whatever it may be. And so I think a lot of stuff comes out that people didn't think about. And then all of a sudden now with the changes, we're seeing consequences.

Duane Musser: Absolutely. Elections have consequences.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes, they do.

Duane Musser: They certainly do.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: However, just getting your... That's why I appreciate both of you so much, wading through this, really understanding it and see what that's happening.

So let's talk a little bit about Roofing Day. Our favorite. So give us just a little bit of history on how Roofing Day started and then let's talk about what we're doing this year. Do you want to do the history?

Duane Musser: Yeah, I mean the history is we have always had some presence in Washington, but years ago we would have people come in, but it would mainly be just our board of directors and a few other leaders. When Reid Ribble, our former CEO, came to NRCA, he was of course in Congress for six years before that and he really saw, since he was in Congress, he knew what was needed to take it to the next level, which is something that we had wanted to do at the staff level. But you do need to have investments to have money to bring to the table to do that.

But we did, we ramped up what we call Roofing Day in DC, the first year was 2018. We had over 400 people come to Washington, DC. And we've been doing it every year since except for 2020 because of the pandemic.
And the pandemic set things back with respect to people traveling and whatnot. We still haven't gotten quite back to that 400 level, but we're hoping to do so or come close this year.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I'm telling you, there's a lot of interest.

Duane Musser: And we need participation. So for those of you who are out there who haven't been to Roofing Day, this is really the opportunity, to some extent, of a lifetime. It's for your industry and it's also for you as a US citizen. I mean, you should come back and see how your government works. And democracy is a participatory sport.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It is. It is, definitely.

Duane Musser: You need to get more involved. Because there's so many other interests, there's so many other industries and we're all vying for a finite amount of time of lawmakers and executive branch officials. And they need to hear from us, and they need to hear from us in good numbers.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: They do. And it is fun, and it is also so educational. You learn so much. And it's not hard. It's a little intimidating the first time, but then as you get to know it, actually working with the staffers and working with our legislators, they start remembering you a little bit, which I always find amazing.

Deb Mazol: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. At the end of the day, they work for you. And if you don't come and let them know what's going on in your industry, giving them data, giving them stories to back up their legislative goals, which are our legislative goals, you can bet your bottom dollar the industry across the street is or your competitor or someone that has a different point of view on a certain policy that might be different from your own. So as many people as we can, get to Roofing Day. Right now, we're above pace on our registration. We have about 130 people signed up, which most people don't usually focus on it until after IRE, so I expect that number to tick up.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh yeah.

Deb Mazol: Thank you for all Roofers Coffee Shop does to support us while we're there. You guys have been coming-

Heidi J. Ellsworth: [inaudible 00:32:29] more.

Deb Mazol: ... forever with a huge group, so we appreciate that. But, very simple program. You fly in on April 8th, so we have a small training program, gets you just comfortable with, here's where things are, here's how much time you're going to have. Start with an opening script and we give you all the tools. We also give you a background, which I would say is maybe a little less important, but in the weeds on the policy issues.

But they just want to hear from you. You don't need to know that Section 45L is important to you, you need to know that energy efficiency for a home is important to you.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And compared to what you're doing. And right now, I can't emphasize enough for all the people I've talked to who are so worried about immigration, as we all should be and our workforce and the people who are families who have worked in companies in roofing, now's the time to go back and tell their story. So it's not just about you going back, it's also taking your field workers.

Duane Musser: Absolutely. Yes. We have encouraged people to bring field workers. We've had a number of members who have done so, contractors and manufacturers who have brought field workers or line workers. And they talk about how the experience for them as a company is really off the chart because of the reception that they get. Your lawmakers want to hear from you. I mean, there's always a few exceptions, but by and large, your lawmakers want to hear from you whether it's at Roofing Day or whether it's back home at other times of the year,

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And they want to know what's affecting you at home. And we've seen that for our own thing in Oregon. When we talk to the legislators, they want to know what's happening in Oregon. And immigration is a huge issue everywhere, but I know it is in Oregon, very much so. So that's the time. Or energy efficient or taxes, helping us-

Deb Mazol: Something for everybody.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: ... stay fair. Stay fair. So to get signed up, how do they do that?

Deb Mazol: www.nrca.net/roofingday.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Perfect.

Deb Mazol: There might be a plug on Roofers Coffee Shop website. I'm not sure if there's a link, but you could visit there. Yeah, if you have any questions, my email is on there, I believe. Just shoot me a note and say, "Hey, what hotel do I go to? What airport do I fly into? Hey, I want to go tour the Capitol or the White House, can you do that?"

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Or the architectural walk.

Deb Mazol: Or the architectural walk. On Thursday, we do a really cool, Durable Slate-led walk. And this year is also, pro-tip, you may not have realized, it's scheduled to be peak cherry blossom season while we're there.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It's never happened the whole time I've been going.

Deb Mazol: Never happened.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I'm excited.

Deb Mazol: If the weather cooperates. We will see if it's not freezing. It's beautiful when there's the peak cherry blossom, so I think it's going to be a really nice time.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That is awesome. Check it all out. If you look on Roofers Coffee Shop in the directory for NRCA ROOFPAC, you'll find all this information or on the NRCA directory. And speaking of ROOFPAC, I would be amiss if I didn't say, whether you are a contractor in roofing or a contractor another trade, all of the construction trades have lobbyists like these folks who are supporting us and helping us with advocacy and to get organized to help with the issues of our industry. So please look for your PACs. If you're in roofing, please check out ROOFPAC and be a donor, be an NRCA member and get involved, because it's not a-

Duane Musser: Democracy is a participatory sport.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: He's saying it's so much better than me.

Duane Musser: We got to have participation. We got to have Roofing Day and supporting ROOFPAC and our advocacy program. We're there to represent you, but it needs to be all working together.

Deb Mazol: And Heidi, you are a big donor of ROOFPAC as well, so thank you very much. She's not just telling you, she's doing what she's asking.

Duane Musser: Absolutely.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: [inaudible 00:36:11] I believe in it and I love... I have to say, knowing I'm from Oregon, sometimes people may say, "What? What, part of that West Coast?" But I have to tell you, what you guys do is so focused on the industry and so wonderfully bipartisan. You just do absolutely the most amazing job and you really represent. So thank you.

Deb Mazol: Thank you.

Duane Musser: Well, we represent a great industry and so it's always a challenge, but working for such a great industry makes it doable.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It really does. We all come together. And you know what? You don't hear that a whole lot today, so it's happening in roofing. There you go.

Thank you both so much and I can't wait to see you at Roofing Day. And I also want to say one more time, thank you for really making it understandable. I have to tell you, I'm going away with a whole new view of tariffs after your guys' conversation.

Deb Mazol: Thank you. I've done a deep dive myself I didn't anticipate a year ago.

Outro: I know. I didn't know we weren't equal with the different countries. So thank you so much. Great information you can take home and help your business.

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