Jared Ribble - NRCA ProCertification Goes Metal - PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of an live interview with Jared Ribble of NRCA. You can read the interview below or  listen to the podcast.

Megan Ellsworth:
Welcome to Roofing Road Trips with Heidi. Explore the roofing industry through the eyes of a long-term professional within the trade. Listen for insights, interviews, and exciting news in the roofing industry today.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Hello and welcome to another Roofing Road Trips from RoofersCoffeeShop. This is Heidi Ellsworth and I am here today with Jared Ribble. For the very few of you out there who do not know who Jared Ribble is, he is in charge of ProCertification for National Roofing Contractors Association, NRCA.

Heidi Ellsworth:
He has done an amazing job bringing ProCertification and track the training modules to the roofing industry. And I am so excited to talk to him today about our newest or their newest in our industry newest ProCertification and that's on metal. Jared, welcome to the show.

Jared Ribble:
Heidi, you know how much I love being here. I'm so glad to get a chance to talk with you. You make me smile. Your audience makes me smile and what an honor. You've got such a great audience that listens to your podcast. So super honor to be here. Thanks for having me.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Thank you so much, Jared. I do have to tell you and everybody else out there. I just talked to a contractor who says he puts his earbuds in and he goes up on the roof and starts tearing off listening to these podcasts. So you might be on a roof right now and someone's listening to you, Jared. You never know.

Jared Ribble:
Hey, listen, if that is you, I'm talking to you installer, roofer on the job right now. I trust you're wearing your harness, I trust you're being safe and whatever it is do not, let me trip you up and distract. Right. It's important work you're doing and I can't have you falling off a roof and blaming me.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I love it. I I think they can do it. There's a lot of good multitasking going on out there. All safe, all safe since we are in National Safety Stand-Down Week. Okay, but today we're going to talk about metal. I've been super involved also with the metal, Metal Con, Metal Construction Association and watched all these amazing metal roofing and wall professionals who have been involved with the NRCA the last couple years, and really have gotten involved with you and ProCertification.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I'm excited to get there, but I want to start with, first of all, you introducing yourself and talking just a little bit about the history of ProCertification for those few people who don't know what it is.

Jared Ribble:
Sure. Well, I will introduce myself. First off, like you said, Jared Ribble and I'm a dad of four little boys and I'm a high school tennis coach, and I play drums at my church, but that's not what I'm here to talk about. I work for NRCA, I do their Qualified Trainer Conference and I'm now am the Director of Certification Development. Certification is the last stop on a worker's journey as they become professional. So you say, "Jared, what's this worker journey?" Well, literally someone who comes off the street that knows nothing about roofing, they have to get trained. They have to start getting some work experience.

Jared Ribble:
And as they become professional, at some point that professional is going to want to have their skills validated where they can stand up and say, "No, I did the training, not just I did the training, but I have the real life work experience and I can prove it." And they take a little hands-on exam where an assessor watches them work and asks them to do certain skills on a mock-up and that assessor scores them.

Jared Ribble:
And most likely if they had the training and they've had the experience, they're going to pass. And then everyone that they come in contact to, at every holiday party, at every Memorial Day barbecue. And when they are on the customer's job on the customer's building, they can say, "I am a true professional and I've had my skills verified." It's an awesome program. I think you can hear how excited I get about it. To see what it's doing in the lives of installers is just absolutely incredible.

Heidi Ellsworth:
It is something we have needed in this industry for so long. And it's just because we know what amazing craftsmen and women we have and who are doing these incredible installations out there, but to be able to hold up that certification and say, "Yes, that badge." And they're doing it in Europe, they're doing it in other parts of the world.

Heidi Ellsworth:
But thank you, Jared, for leading this you and Reid Ribble, this has been such a push and so important to have this ProCertification program. So talk a little bit about maybe just share the history of what certifications do we have so far, and then how's that leading into metal.

Jared Ribble:
Sure. So I hear your question and I'm going to actually go back even a little bit earlier than that. So we have four stakeholders within our industry that all kind of came together and said, "Listen, we've got a problem, Heidi. We've got a problem and it's a workforce problem." Manufacturers are one of the stakeholders. They're saying, "Listen, our products are good, they're not failing, and we're spending millions of dollars going out on warranty claims." And it really wasn't the product that failed, right?

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jared Ribble:
Now we have contractors as a second stakeholder that's saying, "We've got a problem. We're not able to attract quality workers into our industry. We're not able to attract that kid out of high school and he's going to become an electrician. She's going to become a plumber. She's going to become an HVAC tech." Why is this? We're not able to attract these workers. And the work is not any harder or easier. It's just, we're not able to attract the workers.

Jared Ribble:
And then of course, contractors now the other problem is so they're getting workers who aren't qualified and then they're not putting on the systems very well. And they're going back and having to fix problems. And it's just a downward cycle, right?

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yes.

Jared Ribble:
The third stakeholder that we're talking about is the actual installer, the ones that do come into the industry. We were just kind of talking about them. They have no career trajectory to point to say, "If I get to there, I can be considered an actual true professional verified." So we've not had that career trajectory for them until now. And then the last stakeholder and they are not the least is the actual building owner.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, the consumer.

Jared Ribble:
The consumer. ProCertification ends up being the largest, widest reaching consumer protection program. The roofing industry has ever seen. Heidi, just two quick stories. We're talking about history, right?

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Jared Ribble:
Two quick stories. I was on the phone, a major motor car manufacturing plant up north. Just had the roof redone. So I I don't remember how many squares, but it's an auto manufacturing plant. You know it's a lot.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right. Yeah.

Jared Ribble:
256 leaks after one year.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Holy cow.

Jared Ribble:
Okay.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow.

Jared Ribble:
So they are pulling their hair out, thinking that the membrane manufacturer they used was the wrong one and they should go with a different membrane manufacturer. Now I'm Switzerland, which companies manufactures better or worse? Like the fact of the matter is in one year there is no membrane that should be leaking at 256 spots, right?

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right. Yeah.

Jared Ribble:
Okay. So that is not a membrane problem. What is that? That is a human error problem. So one other story, big box retailer, you and your audience have all heard of them. They call and they say, "They're investing 10 million into video equipment that they're going to put on their roofs."

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow.

Jared Ribble:
Why in the world are they putting video equipment on the roofs? Because they're pulling their hair out trying to figure out why their roofs keep leaking. They spend millions of dollars on a roof and it leaks. And we have to pull them aside and say, "Listen, spend the 10 million on video equipment all you want. We can tell you why the roofs are leaking. It's not the membrane that you're putting on. It's not the roof system you're putting on. Fine, put on an old built up roof system, put on the fanciest thermoplastic system. Velcro and all the newest technologies."

Jared Ribble:
It doesn't matter if you have the human error as the installation is happening and that's really what's going on. So those four stakeholders coming together, manufacturers, contractors, installers, and the building owners saying, "Enough is enough." So how ProCert intersects with that is like I was saying, we verify the skills of the professionals.

Jared Ribble:
So that building owners, contractors, manufacturers can then say, "We want to have X percentage of the crew on these jobs be pro certified." So our skills have been verified. And Heidi, listen, our industry has tons of subcontract labor. We are not trying to box out the subcontract labor. We invite those subcontract labor crews into ProCertification for them to be certified so that they have credibility with the four stakeholders as well.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right, right.

Jared Ribble:
So subcontract labor is not going away. That is a part of our contract system. So we are now reaching down into the subcontract labor and pulling them up to the professional standards that have been set. And it's really exciting to see the tide turn in our industry. So you asked for history. Heidi, you know me and your listeners get to know me, I'm going to go off on some left turns and some right turn-

Heidi Ellsworth:
It's a roofing road trip. It's a roofing road trip. It's all right.

Jared Ribble:
So I bring it back to the history. It was those four stakeholders coming together saying enough is enough. And ProCertification hits every one of those stakeholders and says, "This will help be a part of the solution." So that's that's where it came from. And then we started to build out the certifications. What does it take to be a great, what skills does a roofer have to have in order to be a great thermoplastic installer, a great asphalt shingle installer, a great clay and concrete tile roofing systems installer, great EPDM installer?

Jared Ribble:
So we had to then sort of realize that, "Well, every roofing system requires different skills." And a great asphalt shingler may not have the same skills as a thermoplastic roofer who has to weld, has to be a great welder, know how to do inside corners and that sort of thing. So each certification is system-specific. And you ask for history, you say, "Well, what certification do we have?" We've got thermoplastic and right on the heels of that is EPDM because there's a lot of similarities, but they're all different. They do have some different skills.

Jared Ribble:
And we started on the steep slope with asphalt shingles and then moved into clay concrete tile. So those certifications, any installer who has the requisite experience can go earn those certifications. An interesting one that a lot of people actually aren't so aware of, we're talking about metal today. We have a metal flashings and accessories certification metal particularly for the commercial low slope building. So it was determined kind of early on that a great thermoplastic installer who's a great welder and great at the flashing details of thermoplastic, they're not the person that's coming and putting on the copings and the gutters and all that. And that's usually a separate installer.

Jared Ribble:
So we have a certification for those folks who are great flashings and accessories installers. So there's that certification. And then right now, we literally this month just launched their next deep slope system, the metal panel roofing system for metal panel installers. And Heidi, I am not a metal expert. And so it's just been fascinating for me to watch the pilots, we test these exams. We take installers and we put them on these mock-ups and say, "Do this exam for us and we're going to watch you. We're going to observe you."

Jared Ribble:
I'm just blown away at the detailed skill it takes to install the metal panel roof system. These installers are so impressive and it's their turn to be able to stand up and say, "Yes, I am impressive. I am really good at what I'm doing. And I want and deserve to have that pro certified installer badge." And so it's time. It's time for our metal panel installers.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Well, I have tell you yesterday, I was just on a METALCON Live with Nick Sabino and we were talking about metal installers. And he was, I thought this was kind of cute. He said, "They're like prima donnas because they just are so good." The craftsmanship in order to put on a metal roof because I asked him, I said, "Is there a hard time with labor and getting folks in?" And this is what Nick, he says, "Hiring for metal is probably one of our easier ones because it's such a craft. People are very proud."

Heidi Ellsworth:
And then we went on to talk about ProCertification and having all that. For anybody who's listening, Nick Sabino is a past chair of National Roofing Contractors Association and was right in the heart of when ProCertification was launched. So it was fun to talk to him about all of that.

Jared Ribble:
Yeah, absolutely.

Heidi Ellsworth:
But the thing, too, and I want to go back. I'm going to go back now too on that little roofing road trip, but you had mentioned, "I'm not an expert in metal." One of the things that I really have appreciated and been so impressed with by NRCA is how they've reached out. And they've reached out to other associations to really kind of bring the experts in. And I know you worked with the Metal Construction Association to put all of this together. Can you kind of talk about that?

Jared Ribble:
Yeah, absolutely. You're right on about we have to bring together the entire industry and get industry consensus on the skill sets that it takes to be an excellent metal panel roofing installer. So we did partner with the MCA and they helped us bring together experts. We need manufacturers sitting at the table. We need contractors sitting at the table. We need the installers sitting at the table.

Jared Ribble:
And literally, Heidi, I'm not kidding. We bring these folks together into one room and we say, "All right, let's start listing out what does it take to be a great metal panel roof systems installer?" And they will literally over the course of two or three days start to hash out, "Well, they have to have this skill. They have to have this skill. They have to be able to do underlayment. They have to be able to literally, physically put the metal panels on, but they got to be able to tie that into the valley. They have to be able to tie that into a head wall and a side wall. They have to be able to properly do the rake as the eave."

Jared Ribble:
This group of installers, contractors and manufacturers come together and they figure that out. And so it is great because I don't have to be an expert at it. I let them be the expert at it. And in this case, it really was great because MCA helped bring together that group for us. And it was actually chaired by if anyone knows, chaired by Dick Bus. So Dick Bus was really instrumental in helping put that group together and it is just a wide swath of that segment of our roofing industry.

Jared Ribble:
And part of that, Heidi, is so that way it's to defend. It's to defend the certification if anyone were to come to us and say, "You only had manufacturers in the room. And so this certification in the exam is skewed for what they want." No, it's not, it can't be that. It's what was good for everybody and ultimately what's good for that building owner of the consumer. So that's how they were super instrumental. We are incredibly grateful.

Jared Ribble:
And I will also say they are helping us as we launch. We have to get to, there's a magic number in the certification world, a magic number of 100 installers having gone through the exam. And why is that magic number so important? That magic number's important because we have to make sure that this test, this hands-on test, where we put the installer on a mock-up and we ask them to roof certain details. We have to make sure that that test is adequately and accurately representing what the installers do.

Jared Ribble:
Because we can sit in a room and we can all hash it out, but we got to get 100 installers to actually take this exam and get good data to make sure the exam is in fact viable.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Oh, that makes sense.

Jared Ribble:
Yeah. So MCA is being very instrumental in helping us get installers to populate that first 100. So if you are an MCA member, I shout it out to all the MCA members. Be looking for emails from them, get in touch with MCA because they are working with NRCA to populate within this first month or two with 100 installers.

Jared Ribble:
So if this is tickling your fancy here and you think that you might be an installer that would want to do this or you've got your contractor and have installers that would want to do this and you're an MCA member, they've got sort of a special deal going on for MCA members specifically so get in touch with them.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Seriously, if you're listening to this, we can get you in touch with them. We know the MCA. They're easy to find online, but we can also get you in touch with Dick Bus and ATAS and LeeAnn Slattery and all of the amazing folks over there. Jeff Henry who's the executive director. I think that's awesome that they're doing, that they are really putting together that first 100.

Jared Ribble:
Yeah. It's really actually critical to the success of the program to populate really quickly. So we make sure that this certification is doing what we all know it should be doing.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And I do know and this is probably going to be after the first 100, but I do know there's going to be opportunities for installers to do the testing at METALCON, which is going to be great because people will be able to watch and see all this and the testing that's going on. I love that stuff.

Jared Ribble:
Yeah, yeah. I want to be careful because we are going to do it at METALCON so installers will have an opportunity to come and do it there. We've got the assessors there. We've got the mock-ups there. The materials all there. So it's like all you got to do is sign up, fill out your application, which is like a couple questions verifying that you've got eligibility and then come to METALCON and take the exam.

Jared Ribble:
I will say the one thing I want to make sure is clear is while the show floor is open and people are walking around, we are not going to be doing the exams while the show floor is open. Because, frankly, just to be honest with you. This certification exam means the world to these installers.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Okay.

Jared Ribble:
This is their opportunity to prove they are professional. And when we have, I'm going to just call them appropriate lookie-loos. Hey, they're curious. They're looking. They come, they start watching, looking over their shoulder and all of a sudden it becomes a little bit of an unfair environment to take the exam. So that being said, we're going to be there, we're doing the exams. While the show floors open, though, we're going to have the assessor there. We're going to have some installers that have gone through the certification to talk about it, to show you the mock-up, to show you so you can actually get a really good up close and personal look.

Jared Ribble:
So come to METALCON so you can really see it, but come to METALCON and take your exam. If you have a little test anxiety like I do, I am right in that boat with those installers. You are not going to have someone looking over your shoulder watching other than the assessor making sure you understand the skills that were examining.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I think that's really smart and nice. Yes and good. You're right. I wouldn't want somebody watching me when I was testing either, but I really do want to see the mock-ups and talk to the contractors who have been certified learning about that. So I think it's a perfect combination to get people interested and to be able to get people certified. And so I do have a question about that and I'm not sure how many have been certified yet, but what's some of the feedback?

Jared Ribble:
Yeah. So the feedback on metal panel, we're just too early. I mean, just being perfectly honest with you, we've gone through pilots where we've had 20 installers on the mock-ups doing the exam and we've had to ... We get it, we start to have to tweak a little bit. Okay, this mock-up didn't quite work. We got to tweak here and there. So we literally, Heidi, you are on the front edge of announcing this to the world. So we've had just pilots go through it and we've got the assignment tweaked and we know we've got a good product now, but now we got to populate the rest to get into the certification 100.

Jared Ribble:
We got to populate the rest with this exam that we know is working, but we want to double-check. So that's where we're at. So unfortunately, I don't have a great answer for the contractor feedback. I could give you contractor feedback on the program and the other certifications.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Why don't you just a little bit? I mean, I think other contractors and installers would like to hear that. What is some of the feedback?

Jared Ribble:
Yeah. So it's really interesting. And I'm going to trust, Heidi, that we are amongst friends here and we can be honest and I can just be real candid. So contractor feedback is split. It's interesting. So some of the contractors, many of our contractors have a good amount of their installers that have gone through it. And they're like, "Oh, this isn't bad. This is easy. No problem."

Jared Ribble:
And what they have found is that their installers are nervous. They have to be very careful about how they approach their installers. Because some of the installers think that they're being punished for having to go through this. "Well, wait a minute, you don't trust that I'm doing a good job and now I got to go have this test taken?" And the contractor saying, "No, no, no, no, no. We are giving you the opportunity to elevate you and to honor you."

Jared Ribble:
And then when they see that and get their, I call it their award box from NRCA. We send them this box with their credentials and their T-shirt and their hard hat stickers and all that. And then they're honored inside their company. It's like, "Oh, okay, I see this and I get it." The contractors that are doing that are seeing really great success with the program and what it's doing is other installers inside their company are saying, "Well, wait a minute. I want that. I want to do that." And then they come back around and so certain companies just continue this cycle of positive experience and more and more installers want this. So that's really great.

Jared Ribble:
That's the positive. The negative that we're seeing with some of the contractors are ... It's really hard to take your best workers off a job. We're talking half a day, so we're not talking the whole day, half a day. It's really hard when you have months of backlog to say, "I'm going to take my best four workers off the job for half the day and put them through this exam."

Jared Ribble:
I've got a backlog of work.So yes, it's nice for the consumer to prove to the consumer that our company is so great. But if our company needed that, we wouldn't have a backlog of work. So contractors are, some contractors who they hear the inspirational speech, they hear Jared on your podcast all excited and they're like, "Well, that's cool. But I mean, I got to take my best worker off the job for half a day?" So that's tricky. That is very hard for them. And what we are doing is we are working with our assessors to just be as accessible as possible.

Jared Ribble:
We've got manufacturers now that have mock-ups on a trailer that will come straight to the job site and drop the mock up in the parking lot for you could take your crane, put the mock-up right on the job site right up on the roof. I mean, literally, I'm not kidding. Wow. So that your worker does not have to be off the job for one moment longer. So that's the biggest hurdle that contractors are having is getting their worker off the job for just even four hours. It's a big hurdle for them and we get it. We understand.

Jared Ribble:
The flip side to that is a recession coming? I don't know. We could be. We don't want to just try to predict the future, but when your backlog slows down, it is going to be the contractors that have the installers already certified that are going to win the battle of the recession.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yes, I think so too.

Jared Ribble:
It is going to be the contractors that have a track record of certifying their workers that will be able to funnel in the new worker from high school that have proven that they will put that high school kid on a path to professional certification. So it is going to be those companies that win. So when your backlog slows down, I'm just throwing you the caution flag. If you're one of those contractors that says like, " ... Don't really want to slow down to do this right now.." I Totally get it, but I'm throwing you the caution flag.

Jared Ribble:
When times get tougher, you're going to wish that you would've done it now. And here's the other thing. I mean, for a year, we've been talking about supply chain problems and et cetera, et cetera. So if you are dealing with a supply chain problem and a job is getting backed up because you're waiting on ISO or you're waiting on something, take the four hours now with your worker and get it done now.

Jared Ribble:
So I know you wanted to get into specs and talking about specs and is ProCertification coming into getting written into specs? So I'm going to piggyback off of what I was just saying is that yes, spec writers are now writing it into specs. So imagine an impending recession for a second and spec writers right at the time that a recession might be happening are putting it into specs. And now you've got a host of companies in your region that are bidding on that job and they have already gotten their workers certified, and you haven't. Who's going to lose at that time?

Jared Ribble:
So now is the time if you're cash flush, you've got a backlog of work, get your workers certified. Now I'm also, Heidi, bouncing around because one of the other things that contractors, a misconception that contractors have and it is that everyone on the crew has to be certified. And that is not the case. Spec writers are writing in about 20% of the crew needs to be certified. Building owners are requiring it. Remember I told you that story of the big box manufacturer? They're saying, "We might invest into the video equipment, but we're investing in a certification."

Jared Ribble:
So they're coming around saying, "We want this. And we are making sure that our spec writers are putting at least 20% of certified workers are going to be on our big box stores period." So that's a big deal. Benchmark is a group of roofing consultants. They are now adding it into their form that when you want to do benchmark work, you have to put on the form how many workers you've got certified. And if you don't, are you going to? What are your plans?

Jared Ribble:
It's coming in the specs now. Yeah. And we have folks downloading the spec language, just the boilerplate spec language. We have, we have writers downloading that all over the country. Now we actually track who's doing it. We follow-up with them. And with that spec writer, we work with that spec writer to say, "What's the job you want to spec this for? Who are your contractors that you want bidding on it?" And we work with a spec writer to work with the contractors so that all at the same time we are getting those workers certified, so the spec writers can make sure that the contractors they normally have bid on it have the workers to do it.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Have it certified. Yes.

Jared Ribble:
And not everyone on the crew has to be certified. Just usually about 20%. There's a reality. Heidi, you know this, our listeners know this. You will always have laborers, laborers on the job. Guys that are tearing off, guys that are new that are working their way up to becoming certified. You need all those hands to do a lot of that labor work. But when it comes to those skilled details that are causing the 256 leaks on an auto plant, we need certified workers doing those details just period. We just need it.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Well, and it makes so much sense because I mean what I'm hearing as you're talking about this is two very distinctive things. One differentiation, of course, from being specified and doing business with people who are going to start expecting it, being prepared, but then there's the culture.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right now, recruitment is so huge and the labor of getting skilled talent that I also think I want to go back to also say that is I think just as equally important as what is the culture? Are you able to take half a day to help build the culture, career path and certification and pride and craftsmanship? All of that, I think it comes together is just a thing of beauty.

Jared Ribble:
Yeah. So you talk about culture and you talk about, yes, culture, pride and just being attractive, being an attractive workplace, right?

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Jared Ribble:
So back in 2019, the Roofing Alliance commissioned a study on the entire roofing industry. And one of the areas of study is what do roofers want? What do installers want out of the job. And different generations, is there a difference in generations what they want? And what they found was the millennial generation, which is now not the youngest anymore. It kind of used to be for a while, but the millennial generation and the younger, the first thing that they wanted was great pay. Okay, that's easy. Easy or it's understandable.

Jared Ribble:
But the second thing they wanted was training, ongoing training and certification. They wanted proof, they want proof that their experience and their skills matter. So if you are a contractor that is sitting out there on the fence, like, "Yeah, you know this sounds cool and Jared's excited and that's kind of fun." But if you're a contractor that's like, "I'm having a hard time taking one of my great workers off the job." This is something that the next generation of workers want, is looking for and is even expecting.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yes. That's what I see all the time. Exactly. It's going to be an expectation. You're going to be left behind if you're not doing it on so many levels.

Jared Ribble:
Right, right. Yeah. Anyway, we could keep beating that horse, but-

Heidi Ellsworth:
Well, we could talk about it for hours because I love what you're doing, I love what the industry is doing, what the leadership of NRCA. And also, like we said, working with MCA and the Tile Institute and all of these different associations that have come together for this.

Heidi Ellsworth:
But this Roofing Road Trip has definitely been curvy and fun and I love it, Jared. I love how the topics and what's happening. And I want to say thank you so much for everything you're doing for the industry and for sharing all the new stuff with metal and everything that's happening with ProCertification.

Jared Ribble:
Yeah. Hey, one more note about metal. So we're just driving up and down the road and one more thing about metal. We started with steep slope metal, which ended up being metal panels. But you know what, Heidi? There is a whole nother metal steep slope type roofing system, metal shingles. There's some similarities of skill sets between metal panel and metal shingle, but there's just enough difference that certification metal shingles is coming in about another six months.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Awesome.

Jared Ribble:
Okay.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Excellent.

Jared Ribble:
So if you are a contractor, if you're an installer that does metal and you think, "Well, great metal panel's great. But man, shoot, I do a lot of metal shingles." Hey, that's coming right on the heels, but give us about six more months and then you can get your crews and your workers certified in metal shingles as well.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. I can tell you from this side, we are seeing the huge growth in metal overall. And we're hearing about it from the contractors and metal shingles is one of those that is just really both residential and commercial we're seeing it just take off. So kudos, kudos. You're covering it all. Of course, I knew you would, but I love it. Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth:
So, well, Jared, thank you. Thank you again. And we're going to come back because maybe we'll come back and talk again closer to METALCON. I want to hear about everything that's happening about those 100 certifications and we'll give some feedback on just all the new stuff that's coming along with the metal panel. So don't go far, we'll Find you.

Jared Ribble:
You got my number and you know. Let me tell you, audience. When Heidi calls, you pick up the phone. This is someone that when she calls, you pick up the phone and so I'm just honored, always honored and love it.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Aw, I feel the same. Honored to have you on here. And I have to say thank you all for listening. This is the kind of stuff we are constantly trying to bring, having guests like Jared Ribble talking about what's happening in the industry. And we appreciate you listening and being a part of the RoofersCoffeeShop community. So Jared, one last time, thank you and thank you for being here today.

Jared Ribble:
Yep. Absolutely. Honored to do it. Thanks Heidi.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Thank you and thank you all for listening. Be sure to check out all the podcasts, which you can find under the Read Listen Watch navigation on RoofersCoffeeShop or on your favorite podcast channel. Be sure to subscribe and hit that notification so you don't miss a single episode. And we will see you on the next Roofing Road Trips.

Megan Ellsworth:
Make sure to subscribe to our channel and leave a review. Thanks for listening. This has been Roofing Road Trips with Heidi from the rooferscoffeeshop.com.