Exploring Careers and Education in the Roofing Industry - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with John Esbenshade and Rick Damato of NRCA. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast!

Intro: Welcome to Roofing Road Trips, the podcast that takes you on a thrilling journey across the world of roofing. From fascinating interviews with roofing experts to on-the-road adventures, we'll uncover the stories, innovations and challenges that shape the rooftops over our heads. So fasten your seatbelts and join us as we embark on this exciting roofing road trip.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Hello, and welcome to another Roofing Road Trips from Roofer's Coffee Shop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth, and today we're talking about one of the things that has gotten me so excited over the last couple of years. It is just such a great initiative, and that is the NRCA's career technical education, and specifically SkillsUSA. So we have the people who are making it happen every single day here on this podcast, on this Roofing Road Trip, so we can talk about it. And that is John Esbenshade of NRCA and Rick Damato. Hello, gentlemen.

Rick Damato: Howdy, Howdy.

John Esbenshade: Hey.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Okay. We've all been working together on this for quite a while, but I have to tell you, I'm kind of a newbie when it all comes into it. You two have really been making it happen. And Rick, I have to say, you were the one. You were the one who brought it all together and really brought it to the different associations, whether it was NRCA or Roofing Alliance. So let's start out with some introductions, and I want to dive back into the history. But first of all, Rick, can you introduce yourself?

Rick Damato: Sure, Heidi, thanks. Appreciate you sponsoring this podcast and glad you started this up today. I'm Rick Damato, I'm principal with Damato Enterprises in Hoschton, Georgia, and I'm semi-retired, but I'm a member, I remain a member of the National Roofing Contractors Association and the Roofing Alliance, which is the foundation of the NRCA.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, and has done so much for the industry, Rick. So when you say semi-retired, I think we all just kind of smile. You can't stay away.

Rick Damato: I'm doing my best to actually be retired, but I'm calling it semi at this point.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love it. And John, can you introduce yourself?

John Esbenshade: Yeah, certainly. My name is John Esbenshade, and I serve as the director of workforce development for the National Roofing Contractors Association. And yeah, taken the ball that Rick actually made from pigskin and inflated and designed himself, and now we just run with it. So happy to be here, as always.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh, so many great things happening. Okay, let's start, Rick, with you. Let's go back, and you were the one to really bring SkillsUSA, I know it started in Georgia, you are working with the Georgia Roofing Contractors Association and then just overall CTE initiatives to the NRCA and to the Roofing Alliance. Can you give us a little bit of the history?

Rick Damato: To bring us up this point, I actually retired the first time at the end of 2016 from 32 years in wholesale distribution, roofing and other building products. And one of the things I wanted to do was to try, in my retirement, was to try to leave the industry just a little bit better than I found it back in 1974. And the first thing I encountered was that meeting of CEFCA, it's the organization particularly keyed in on construction and construction trade schools in Georgia. And I went to their skills competition in Georgia in March of 2017, and that was when I learned about SkillsUSA. I learned about the actual existence of SkillsUSA and CEFCA, and I'm going to get this wrong, CEFCA is now called Construction Ready here in Georgia. We have a very robust program with our trade schools in construction, and it was the career and educational foundation of Georgia, CEFCA.

I went to their skills competition, and the Georgia Roofing Contractors Association was participating there as part of their expo, showing off, "Here's what we do in roofing." They had a very nice, robust display in their trade show, but really I was introduced to this whole concept of SkillsUSA. And I was doing a little reporting in the trade publications, as you know, Heidi, and I went to their SkillsUSA media folks to learn what SkillsUSA was all about. And lo and behold, really this all started not from anything I did, except to discover something that's been going on since 1965. The organization that started, that led in to become SkillsUSA, actually goes back that far. And the thing that I did discover when I went to their national SkillsUSA back in 2017 when it was in Louisville Kentucky, there was every conceivable skill trades represented at this SkillsUSA annual competition for skills between winners of state competitions, folks who are learning how to cut hair, run CNC machines, welding, mining, machine operating.

You name it, it was represented there. Every manner of construction except roofing. And the light bulb sort of went on that roofing has never been recognized as a specialty trade in career and technical education in this country. So I didn't really start anything. I just discovered this huge gap, and I saw it as a real opportunity when it comes to workforce development. It's one of the levers we just never pulled in roofing as an industry. So that's sort of what got kicked off in 2019. As you know, the Roofing Alliance, that foundation of NRCA stepped up and funded our first industry partnership with SkillsUSA. And the NRC has picked it up since then and has taken it five more levels up, and especially with bringing John on board to lead our workforce and career and technical education efforts for NRCA. So understand, he's doing all the heavy lifting now. I just lit the match. That's all I really did.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Well, and I think everybody who's been involved, Rick, has been shocked that roofing was never involved with SkillsUSA. And I'm just so happy that you and all the professionals in Georgia were like, "Hey, we need to be involved in this."

Rick Damato: Yeah. Well, as you know, what's happening is our workforce, our really best, our highly skilled workforce, those 40s, 50s, 60s folks, they're aging out, they're retiring. And the industry as a whole, and not to be critical, but we've really not done the job we needed to do of replacing them.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right.

Rick Damato: And there's a lot of good things that happen, believe me, in training. The associations, the manufacturing companies, they're all engaged and involved, but as an industry as a whole, we haven't had a unified effort to replace those retiring highly skilled workers, not just the three and five and 10-year-old people, but the ones that are 20, 30, 40-year folks, which are very vital and very critical to what we do every day in productivity.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's really it. And John, you see it every day. You are full-time in the CTE world and the needs of the roofing industry. To Rick's point, it is the labor shortage and just getting this next generation excited about roofing. So what's happening right now? Give us the big, we've had the history, now what is the program with NRCA and what are they doing? What are you doing every day, John, on the CTE front?

John Esbenshade: Well, the weather's good, so I'm working on my golf swing and my tan. But after I get those two things just perfect, I guess, where we are now is we have this momentum in this space with SkillsUSA and with career and technical education for the first time. As Rick mentioned, it's a pretty glaring oversight in terms of what these organizations like SkillsUSA and like the Association for Career in Technical Education, what they are designed to do is to prepare students for skilled trade careers. And a big part of that is the construction industry. And every other aspect is really accounted for. So what my work is day-to-day these days is overseeing and in some cases piggybacking on these state and regional and school-by-school relationships between the roofing industry and the career and technical education side of things.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, And you're bringing, Rick and I both sit on the committee in NRCA for CTE, and you have brought together just such an impressive committee of roofing contractors and manufacturers, distributors, service providers from all over the country. Tell us a little bit about what they're doing to really help make this happen, and maybe what that looks like going into SkillsUSA the end of June.

John Esbenshade: Sure. So apart from you two being on that committee, and the way I see it being at least one 30th of my boss, each of you, that committee and the group of state technical chairs who are responsible for quarterbacking the SkillsUSA relationships in their states, whether it be manufacturers, volunteering, materials to be donated to schools and shipped to CTE schools around the country, NRCA, we make our track training for roof application careers, curriculum completely free to any and all career and technical education students in the country that want it, including those who are in correctional education, known as justice impacted students. There's this tidal wave of momentum and excitement about the progress that is very visual for the first time. And it's very much snowballing, it feels like, on a week to week basis. And so it's a really exciting thing to be able to be a part of.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So, let's talk a little bit about SkillsUSA 2024. Right before we started this podcast, you just made Rick and I's day telling us about the competitors, what's happening. So, can you maybe give just a little bit of what's been happening in all these states and how many states are competing and what's going to happen at SkillsUSA in roofing this year?

John Esbenshade: So, I'm always a little bit hesitant to give the number out because it's still in a state of potential fluctuation. But right now it seems safe to bet that it's going to be 12 at least. It might be more, it might be a couple less. But I'd say if we're going to do ... IRA was in Vegas, and while I don't bet, I do like to calculate odds, I'd say the over/under on how many states would be 10.5 if we were laying odds in Vegas. Now, what is being done at the state level is members of the state technical chair committee and the CT and workforce development committee, there's a big middle part of that Venn diagram between those two groups, they are donating materials to have these state contests. They are sending their personnel in to train and give the hands-on training to the students to get them ready to compete in those regional and state contests.

They are doing everything and paying for everything out of their own pocket to also send that state champion to compete in the national contest in Atlanta. It's a really, really heavy lift. And each and every one of these people are volunteering and saying, "You know what? It doesn't matter how much it costs, because right now we're doing something that's never been done before in the state or in this country, and that is worth it." And there's no way we would get close to even the number 12 without the kind of support that everyone in those spaces are helping us with.

Rick Damato: John, you know what? I've been in touch with a few contractors that are preparing students and helping in schools. I don't care if two of them show up, there's going to be some hard fought competition. These people are serious.

John Esbenshade: No, they are.

Rick Damato: It's really fun to watch it.

John Esbenshade: Yeah.

Rick Damato: And it's going to be fun, when we get there, it's going to be fun to see.

John Esbenshade: So much, just so much happening. And yeah, when you pick up the phone, there are two kinds of calls. There's the call that, "Holy crap, what do I do?" Which I will not name names, but has happened more than zero times this year. And then there's the call that comes after that, which is, "This was the most incredible thing, one of the more incredible things I've gotten to be a part of since I started working in this industry." And yeah, what a great job.

Rick Damato: Well, you know what, I can say this from the tail end of a career in roofing. And to the contractors, this is the kind of thing that can be your legacy. This is the kind of thing where you could put on just literally millions of squares of product and you can satisfy thousands of customers, but you just do this one thing and you have a real impact on not just this student or that student or this school or that school, but the entire industry. This is going to make a significant difference, life-changing difference, for a lot of contractors as well as students.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Rick, I love that. I think that is so true, because when you really look at it and for everyone out there, just so you'll understand, if you haven't been involved with SkillsUSA or reading the articles that Rick has written or that we've written here on the Coffee Shop, this is really about every state. The contractors in those states are working with their local vocational schools to bring roofing, first of all, into the vocational schools, because a lot of schools do not, probably majority of schools, do not have any roofing. And then also bringing the free, as John already mentioned, the free track training from NRCA into that vocational school, prepping them, mentoring them and then these kids go to state and then regional contests where they basically are able to work their way up to participate and compete at the national level, which is in Atlanta, Georgia at the end of June.

And so these contractors are a little competitive, rick, just a little bit, man. And I love the fact that that's starting to happen. Rick, last year when we had the four competitors competing, I saw the contractors there all also talking back and forth, all their mentors. So talk just a little bit about that experience from last year.

Rick Damato: Well, each of the competitors came from four different states, and they were there with their mentors, the contractors that had helped them through their schooling and through the process of training to go through this competition. And the contractors that were there were very much into it. It's fair to say they were, again, they're very competitive. Roof contracting is a little bit of a competitive business, and this is no different. But they really wanted their students to succeed and be the one. And I don't think of the four of them, and the scoring was really close, John could talk more about that, but nobody was disappointed in the performance of those young people.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And when you think about it, we had four last year. You are tripling the number of states, and I know that number's a little soft, but we're tripling it this year to have 12 competitors that are going to really, that's going to be the talk, right? So not only do we have the competition area where the students or the young people are competing on commercial roofing. So this is going to be heat welding, PVC systems that they are competing on. Following the track and the pro certification specifications for this competition, we're also going to have a very large 20 by 60 booth, which is the roofing pavilion, where all the roofing people are going to be. So Rick, you have been working with John to put all this together. Can you give us a little bit of insight what's going to be in the roofing pavilion?

Rick Damato: Yeah, it's going to be significantly bigger and better than we did last year. And we're already talking about 2025, so it's a fun thing to put together a 20 foot by 70 foot exposition to show the thousands of students and their advisors, teachers, administrators, what we do in the roofing industry. And we're going to show off, John has come up with some just really great participation from the industry. We've got a scaffolding company that's going to build a scaffold so we can have a live rooftop demonstration, that the students can safely go up and down and try their hands at thermoplastic welding. There's going to be a display of steep roofing, which is going to be shown one day at a time, shingles, tile, metal. We're going to have drone operations.

We're going to be showing on video displays estimating, the way we do it online and through our commercial and residential estimating products. Of course we'll have pins, which is a big deal at SkillsUSA. We'll have the National Roofing Contractors 2024 pin shown, right, right? So it's a big deal in the SkillsUSA world. We're going to, for the first time we're going to have repair and maintenance, have a little part of the exhibit to talk about that as a very significant part of a career path for roofing and particularly in commercial. We're going to have industry professionals behind each of these ready to talk to the folks that are going to come around and see us. And that's obviously our many sponsors that you can talk about later. But John, did I miss anything?

John Esbenshade: Well, you got the big ones. We have the augmented reality that's coming in there from Roofing technology Think Tank. I think you mentioned the estimating activity and Eagle View's participation in that, and using that to check and trying to teach these kids what a square is. But yeah, I think if you mentioned those like nine things, then yeah, I think you got all of them.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It's a lot. And National Women in Roofing will be there.

John Esbenshade: Absolutely.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And so, it's just, for everyone listening, what this is thousands, thousands, tens of thousands of young vocational students come to SkillsUSA to compete, not just in roofing, but in plumbing and electric and construction, cosmetology, culinary, you name it. I was blown away last year with all of the different trades that are there and how many students. So it's not only a chance for our competitors to compete and really show the world what roofing is all about, but it's also about this awesome booth space that John and Rick and the CTE committee and all of us are putting together and will be there working at it.

And I just have to real quick, because I want to make sure that we also mention, we mentioned a lot of them, but we have people and organizations from the roofing industry who have sponsored this, who have stepped up and said, "This is important and we want to sponsor it." And first off, we have to talk about the Roofing Alliance. The Roofing Alliance was the first donors a number of years ago, maybe three or four years ago when they helped NRCA get involved with SkillsUSA by funding that. And then this last year they committed to $50,000 per year for the next three years. Rick, you and I are just blown away by that. It was such an exciting part.

Rick Damato: It is, and it's a significant sponsorship. And truly, we wouldn't be on this podcast right now if it weren't for that very first contribution, that Kickstarter they gave us back in 2019.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. The Roofing Alliance, they just are always at the forefront working with the industry, working obviously with NRCA. But I'm going to just do a shout-out real quick as I go through this of the sponsors who have stepped up this year, and that's ABC Supply, Atlas Roofing, Beacon, Eagle View, Georgia Pacific, IB Roof, Java, Johns Manville, National Roofing Partners, Roofing Corps of America, SRS and Tamco.

Rick Damato: And we have one more, we have one late addition. Tracy Donalds, Service First Solutions, he's sponsoring and bringing his expertise to talk about repair and maintenance technician as a career path.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love it. Tracy's awesome.

John Esbenshade: And there's also Sunbelt Rentals who are helping us with the scaffold, because I can promise you that what we're going to be building for that roof climb activity is not something I could afford to do without them.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And we have to talk about the Georgia Roofing Contractors Association. They have from the very beginning, and they're there to help with the setup, with the teardown and SRS is delivering, Beacon is delivering. I'm telling you, this is such an industry event. Everybody comes together.

Rick Damato: Mid-South Roof Systems and some other contractors as well. Too many to mention, frankly.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, it is great. If people are interested in attending SkillsUSA, because after this podcast, everybody's probably going, "I'm going to Georgia, I'm going to Atlanta the end of June," John, can you give just the details, when it is, how it works, how people can get involved?

John Esbenshade: Yeah, of course. So the dates that you would need to mark on your calendar are going to be the 25th of June through the 27th of June. The two days of the contest itself are going to be the 26th and if we end up with more than 16, which still holding out hope for. I'm glad that you guys are happy with 12, but I don't pretend to be the most apt mathematician, but I believe that there are 50 states in this country that have roofs, and I believe that 12 is fewer than 50 by at least like six. I'm not sure. But the 26th and hopefully the 27th are going to be the two contest days. The days of the techspo itself are going to be the 25th, the 26th and the 27th at the Georgia World Congress Center in Atlanta. If you're interested in attending, you have until the end of this month to reach out to me, jesbenshade@nrca.net and request a pass.

And then from there, I will see what I can do. I think at some point I'm going to run out of how many people I'm actually able to give passes to. But until I get to that point, it is really important for us to share the good word about that. After you see it for the first time, it's different. You think about how we fit, how our industry fits into this career and technical education space with all these other trades that we are competing against for skilled labor. And when you're there for the first time, you are not going to think about it the same way again. And that's a really important thing to get out.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, it's so great. So you have the times. If for some reason you don't get ahold of John, you don't get a pass, but you're in the Atlanta area, you can just buy a pass to come in. You can just get in. It's not that expensive, and it's well worth it to see everything that's going on. We will be there, all of us, all three of us will be there, plus a lot of other people. We're going to also be broadcasting live. Rick does a bunch of stuff out into the industry. We do a bunch of stuff out to the industry because we want everybody to see it. So gentlemen, thank you so much.

Rick Damato: Thanks, Heidi.

John Esbenshade: Oh, did we mention Georgia Pacific in our list of people who've given us stuff?

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes, we did. Georgia Pacific's doing some cover boards. I know.

John Esbenshade: Yeah, this is a ...

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Well, I have to say, it is such an honor for me to work with both of you and be on the CTE committee and really bring it together. So thank you both so much for everything you do, and thank you for letting me be a part of it. I love it. This is going to be great, and we'll see everybody at SkillsUSA. And I want to thank everybody for listening to this podcast. This is the kind of stuff that just makes a difference. It's heartwarming and it makes a difference to the industry. So please check out all of our podcasts under Roofing Road Trips, under the RLW navigation of rooferscoffeeshop.com or on your favorite podcast channel. Be sure to subscribe and set your notifications so you don't miss a single episode. We'll be seeing you next time, and definitely at SkillsUSA on Roofing Road Trips.

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