Dhaval Gajjar - Competitions, Research and Camaraderie – Clemson University and the Roofing Alliance - PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of an live interview with Dr. Dhaval Gajjar from Clemson University. You can read the interview below, or listen to the podcast. 

Speaker 1:
Welcome to Roofing Road Trips with Heidi. Explore the roofing industry through the eyes of a long-term professional within the trade. Listen for insights, interviews, and exciting news in the roofing industry today.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Hello and welcome to another Roofing Road Trips from Roofers Coffee Shop. This is Heidi Ellsworth and I am here today kind of tripping south to meet up with one of my favorite people, I know I say that all the time but honestly, you all are going to be so wowed by this gentleman today. We have Dr. Dhaval Gajjar from Clemson University with us today on this roofing road trip. Dhaval, welcome to the show.

Dhaval Gajjar:
Thank you Heidi, glad to be here and looking forward to the show.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I know. I'm so excited for this podcast and really excited to talk about all the different things you're doing. And I have to kind of set the stage a little bit for everyone who's listening in that one of my favorite and Tim's and some of you know, Tim is my husband, he works at the Coffee Shop too, our favorite event in the roofing industry is the student competition from the Roofing Alliance. Every year we sit there, we watch, we love the presentations and Dhaval, you have been such a huge part of the success, you and many other professors of making the student competition go. But that's just the start of it, there's so much out there that you've done. So before we jump into the student competition, my favorite thing, I want to start at the beginning. So can you introduce yourself to the roofing industry, tell them a little bit about yourself and then we'll get into a little bit more of the history of the Roofing Alliance too.

Dhaval Gajjar:
Sounds good. Thank you Heidi. Hello all the roofers out there, for some of you guys who don't know me I am Dhaval and like Heidi mentioned, I am a professor at the Clemson University. The term professor comes with a lot of assumptions and hopefully we'll try to break that, that the type of work we do here at Clemson is very involved with the industry, we do quite a bit of outreach efforts, we do quite a bit of research hand in hand with the industry and the Roofing Alliance being one of them which we'll talk about later on the show. A little bit about myself, I graduated from Arizona State University, I did my bachelor's, my master's and my doctrine. My graduate school was focused on construction management and for some of you guys who don't know how the graduate school works, for your master's and doctorate you have to do a thesis and a dissertation.

Dhaval Gajjar:
That's basically your independent project that you do as part of your curriculum and either you have to come up with a new problem that you solve or try to solve the existing problem or make the existing solutions even better. So during graduate school one of my highlights was working on roofing because that was my focus for my graduate school. I got my master's thesis in evaluating performance of roofing systems, did a lot of roof inspections for my graduate school all over the country. I physically walked over 500 roofs, inspected them for any defects and lamination, alligatoring, penetrations, everything you can think of and basically come up with a portfolio performance of roofing projects.

Dhaval Gajjar:
And for my PhD we moved more onto the contracting side, the roofing contracting side, to look at how can we better predict performance for roofing contractors based on the expertise and the experience they've had in the past. So roofing has always been close to me. Then I went and worked in the construction industry, I worked both on the contracting side of this business and also as the owner rep side. And one of the things I learned being the owner rep, I was responsible for managing Southwest Region about five states, lots of building square footage, responsible for renovation, remodeling and ground up construction. And one of the things I realized is every week or at least twice a week I had an email in my inbox and that email had something to do with a roof, either a roof was leaking or a roof had issues or someone went on the roof and did something.

Dhaval Gajjar:
So a lot of maintenance issues that had come up on our existing roofs and that basically kind of confirmed at my graduate school where roofing is one of the critical components of the built environment system. So when I came to Clemson one of the things that I wanted to focus on is bringing more exposure to our industry because it's such a critical industry and such an important sector within construction and that's why I am here. I'm in Clemson, I do teach a couple of classes such as project management with other methods but one of my most exciting endeavors here at Clemson has been working with the Roofing Alliance.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I just learned something. Dhaval, I have sat with you in committee meetings, I've sat with you at the different events, I had no idea that your dissertation and everything you did was on roofing, that is so cool. I mean, in roofing we never hear this, we never hear that there's this kind of focus so wow. Really now everybody is going to want to see it so at some point you probably have to put it out there and publish it too, out into the industry.

Dhaval Gajjar:
It is published, so.

Heidi Ellsworth:
It is published and so we got to make sure we talked to Bennett and make sure it's out there for the Roofing Alliance for people to see it.

Dhaval Gajjar:
Absolutely.

Heidi Ellsworth:
That is cool. Okay. So you got to Clemson and you started working with the Roofing Alliance, what was that like? How did you first get involved with the Roofing Alliance? And, I mean, I love you had this passion to get into roofing so you must've reached out, how did that work?

Dhaval Gajjar:
Heidi, there's a famous saying that if you really wish something, things just work themselves out and that's exactly what happened with the Roofing Alliance. Since my background coming from graduate school was research in roofing and of course working in the industry I had industry experience, I looked at hands-on as to how critical roofing is, we wanted to really explore roofing as a potential research at least when I came to Clemson. Believe it or not, our department chair, I was actually on the same visiting team as Mr. Bill Good who I think almost everyone on this podcast knows or in the industry knows who Mr. Bill Good is, and that's how we connected. Fate might have it but we just happened to be in the same visiting team and we started talking and I realized that I was here in Clemson, I was interested in doing roofing related research.

Dhaval Gajjar:
And so we met, I remember that meeting about three, three and a half years ago, we met for lunch and we talked about all the research efforts that we can do and all the things we can partner on. But one of the things that really got me was, well, I didn't realize that roofing is such a critical sector like I mentioned before, with the highest litigated sector in the industry. Surprisingly when I came to teach as a professor at a four year university within construction management, we only talked about roofing for maybe an hour in the whole curriculum, only 50 minutes. I mean, you can imagine roofing being such a critical component on built environment systems and building overall and we only talk about it for 50 minutes.

Dhaval Gajjar:
And then with my passion in roofing and what I've seen in the industry, I realized that that's not enough, our students need to be educated about our industry not only on the education aspect but really showing them there's a different career that they would have never thought about before. Because traditionally students in the four-year program are focused on the contracting side which is what the curriculum is mostly focused on so introducing a roofing curriculum and not only introducing curriculum but educating them on what the industry is about, all the different career options and just how sophisticated, how professional and how intricate this industry is, and on top of that, just the amazing people that you work with.

Dhaval Gajjar:
And I think the message had to be shown to our students that there is a field that you can get into which is very rewarding, very diverse, and very challenging, but at the same time where you can make a full-time career out of it. And so that's when we started talking and we said that in a list factored together and developed first of its ever kind a three credits roofing course where students can actually enroll and that will count towards their graduation, and that's how this whole partnership started. We found a gap, we found a niche and we found a need, and of course, Clemson and Roofing Alliance partnered together on this first ever roofing course that is being implemented actually right now within Clemson and hopefully other institutions as well as we move ahead with the partnership.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, we're trying to get it out to all these universities. And just for everybody who's listening, just in case there's a few of you who may not know, the Roofing Alliance is the foundation of the National Roofing Contractors Association, the NRCA. And the Roofing Alliance is focused on helping to improve the industry through technology, through education, through philanthropy and through sustainability and they work all the time with universities across the country through funding requests and through initiatives to bring this stuff. So as we're looking at this class that was developed that was funded by the Roofing Alliance in order to start having a university level roofing curriculum that could be shared not just at Clemson but across the country. So Dhaval, tell us about that first year, because you've already gone through one year teaching the class, right? And you're in your second or third.

Dhaval Gajjar:
Yes, that is correct Heidi. So when we offered this course the first time we had absolutely no clue how many students would actually be interested in a class called roofing. And so we went into this hands down, we were open to it and the first course was more of a testing ground, a pilot testing to see if there's any interest from any other college students if you offer a class in roofing. Our conversation initially was if we had four to five students we'll be very happy since this is the first of its kind course and so I guess we low-balled our number pretty low at that time because when we open up the course we had 21 students sign up as an elective course. And in our department that course actually became one of the highest enrolled elective courses in our department. And one of the most common themes that kept emerging was student just wanted to know more about the industry, which was interesting, we would have never thought that students would get attracted to a specialty course in roofing but they just wanted to know about what the industry is all about.

Dhaval Gajjar:
So they were hungry to learn, they were there, and so we had such huge success that we decided, hey, let's turn this into a certificate program. So we're actually developing two other courses currently as we speak and we finished our second one as of yesterday and we are just trying to finalize some of the details that will be released here in the next couple of weeks and the third course will be done by the end of next summer. So this time next year we'll have a nine credit three course roofing certificate program at Clemson. However, the Alliance owns the content so anything we develop the Alliance owns it and the goal is to take the certificate program or few of the courses we have developed and go and implement those at other universities and schools. So that's where we were headed, it's very exciting where we're headed from here on.

Heidi Ellsworth:
That is awesome. Now, is this nine course, is this 101, 201, 301? Or do they do it all in a row or does it matter?

Dhaval Gajjar:
Ideally it shouldn't matter, however, our recommended course is principles of roofing one, principles of roofing two, and then the third course that we're developing. Because the first course focuses on the overview of the roofing industry, basic information such as, what other different types of roofing systems. I mean, the roofing professionals listening to this you have heard of PPO, EPBM, PVC, polyiso, I mean, those are all the words we use every day but these students have no clue what is CPO. So in order for them to get to that knowledge the first portion is to really focus on some of the basics of the roofing industry. The second course goes into a little bit of the technical details of our roofing industry, it could be the actual install, safety estimating, quality control, quality management, quality assurance, all those kind of aspects and then the third course that we are developing will be focused more on the leadership side of things.

Dhaval Gajjar:
Now that you understand what roofing is, all the technicalities of the actual install and who are the key players and all the management aspects that go with that, one of the key things that we heard from a lot of professionals is being entrepreneurs and our students want to have their own companies, want to have their own businesses at some point and so we are really capturing this opportunity and really focusing some of the leadership and the business aspects in our third course. So really this is going to cover a broad spectrum of topics, I mean, we have over 25 topics we cover, and really the survey with roofing industry professionals, we asked the roofing industry, what do you want to include in this courses? And the industry came back and told us that these are the 25 topics that we see would be ideal if they are to hire someone from this school and we've incorporated all these 25 topics within these three courses. So really exciting, really exciting what we've done and where we are headed.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. This is so exciting, this is really the first of its kind, right? I have never heard of another one like this.

Dhaval Gajjar:
It is, this is first of its kind. So what we are doing here is, we are writing history for the future as we speak, so.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Definitely roofing history, that's awesome, I love it. So one of the things that, and I started out with this, but one thing that I just love is the fact that you have the roofing course, and then you brought your first team to the student competition. So tell us about that experience for you to getting involved and having a Clemson team on Roofing Alliance Student Competition that, for everyone out there, it takes place every year around IRE, it's been a little funky the last couple of years with COVID but it's still happening, and Clemson did pretty dang good this last year.

Dhaval Gajjar:
Yeah, we did, we won last year so we did. Now, if there's one thing that I tell my students is, you can be in your classrooms all day, you can learn about all the content, but the best way to learn what our industry is all about is to be on a competition team. They almost don't believe me when I tell them that how professional or industry is and how diverse our industry is. When they think about roofing they think about one career option which is roofing contractor but they don't realize they went within roofing, there are multiple career opportunities either on the product line, on the manufacturing line, on the distribution side, on the contracting side, a consultancy side, a software side, there's so many different career paths that they don't think about. So one of the biggest things at least for our students is to go to IRE and walk on the expo floor and you just look at their eyes and their eyes just get so big and bulgy that they're like, wow, this is awesome, because they never imagined that how big and how vast and how diverse our industry is.

Dhaval Gajjar:
So that's one of the things is having to be able to travel to IRE every year with my students and physically having them with 15,000 roofing professionals. And they don't just show up and they go to the expo but they attend all the educational events, they go to all the social hours, they go to the expo and they actually did go present their student competition in front of roofing industry professionals. Most of these students have never had a public speaking skill and so that's one of the things that developed is how to deal with that nervousness, how to deal with that stress. And when you're up there you just see them kind of start nervously and then they slowly transition into just comfortable like they know what they're talking about, at least they do, right?

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, they do.

Dhaval Gajjar:
So you're just happy to see their whole experience as they come to the competition. And at the same time before they get there they have to work on a specific roofing project and in that case that is such a cool thing to see because when these students come and join this competition they have absolutely no clue what they're getting themselves into and I always think that they're never going to get it. We only have three and a half months to put this together, they have no clue what is polyiso, they don't know what is vapor barrier, how are we going to get through this? But somehow they end up learning all the skills and all the technical knowledge and they end up always knowing and coming out of the other side so much more knowledgeable, so much more experienced on the roofing side.

Dhaval Gajjar:
So to me that's an exciting part is educating them on actual roofing projects, working on actual roofing projects, and the nice thing is now that we have a roofing course we pair that roofing course with the student competition and they get an overall gist of exactly what our industry is all about, so again, a very cool way. And I encourage almost every university to get involved with this competition especially in roofing because it's one of the best that I have been involved with out of all the other competitions. I would encourage all the roofing professionals to get involved in some way or the other either judges or attending these and helping our students get internships and just coming and talking to them, just welcoming them, that's what it's all about, so it's been a great experience for all of us.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. And I mean, obviously it's been different in the last year with COVID but before that 2019 as we were sitting in the audience watching all the presentations, I'm always amazed that it's not just packed and full and so I'm like this advocate, you've got to come see this, this is our future. And I really love too that, and sorry that I've got to bring this in, but there's always a number of young women who are on your teams, in your classes who are involved, so this is really embracing this whole diversity of the future by bringing these students and showing them what a great place roofing is, what a great place to work.

Dhaval Gajjar:
Absolutely. The diverse factor is, since you mentioned that Heidi, one of the interesting findings from our class was we had a very diverse class for roofing. I mean, we offered the first course, we had 30% females, on the second one we had the same number, so there's a great diversity within our class as well. And as you know we have had competition teams in the past and we have had diverse competition teams as well so it's been a very rewarding to see a good representation from multiple entities, absolutely.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And I had the honor to interview them and speak with them at this year's IRE and for anybody listening to this, you can watch those interviews on the RCS YouTube. These young people are so well-spoken and you can learn a lot. We ask them like, what are you looking for in a job? Who do you want to go work for? And they are so impressive. Are you seeing some of the students kind of move to that, possibly looking in the roofing industry from your classes?

Dhaval Gajjar:
Absolutely. We have had a few actually and if I have to pick one success factor it would be one of the students we had a couple of years back. He had taken our first roofing course and he was so intrigued by the whole industry that he wanted to get an internship in the roofing industry in the summer and so that's exactly what he did. He worked for a roofing company in Florida in the summertime for three months and the employer absolutely loved him. Interestingly enough, he had never been on an actual roofing job, this was his first roofing experience, but he had taken our first course in roofing before getting onto that job site for the internship and the employer that called us told us that he is so knowledgeable in the roofing, right? He understands what roofing is and we have never seen someone being brand new to our industry know this much about roofing.

Dhaval Gajjar:
Which confirmed that the class that we're teaching is actually making a difference to the company professionals as well because you're not having to invest as much time or training and equipping them, right? So you almost gain a couple of years of knowledge already when they come out of these programs. Then he came back, he finished his school and this employer offered him the job and he's actually currently working in the roofing industry as a project manager as we speak in Florida and absolutely loves it. And all because the Roofing Alliance invested in offering a roofing specific course and educating our students, right? So that's one of the most rewarding things about this partnership it's not just we're offering our education course but we have students who are going out and actually getting employment in our industry. So again, one of many success stories.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I love it. Wow. That just kind of gives me a little bit of chills. And the thing that's great is, okay, so you have the courses in the classes, you've a very active winning team in the student competition, but there's more, you are currently working on new research programs for the Roofing Alliance, correct?

Dhaval Gajjar:
We are, we are trying to, absolutely. So the Roofing Alliance and Clemson have really partnered not only on the education side but really to understand how to attract and retain some of the professionals in our industry today. Attraction is very important but like I always say, attraction is great but we need to be able to retain them once you attract them, right? Because we don't want to lose people who are currently in the industry and we want to keep them but at the same time attract new employees. So we actually also did a couple of other studies and currently we just finished a study on the economic study where we actually looked at or we surveyed multiple roofing professionals in the industry all from three entities of manufacturers, distributors, and contractors, to understand their perception about the industry, right?

Dhaval Gajjar:
So we asked them, are you happy? If you're not happy why are you not happy? What can industry do better to retain you? Then we asked them about their career path to see where these professionals are coming from and what has been their general career path. Roofing industry always claims to be, not claim, but I think there's a general perception that you can move up pretty quick in our industry. And so we looked at that, is that true? Well, we looked at some of the attraction factors, what made you come into the roofing industry? What makes you stay in the roofing industry? And we realized that there's not a documented career path in our industry.

Dhaval Gajjar:
So the Roofing Alliance and Clemson University partnered on that as well where we generated a career path for all the key entities of manufacturers, distributors and contractors, and the reports are available to the Roofing Alliance that exactly outlines what a general career path might look like if you're coming into work for a roofing contractor or a roofing distributor or a roofing manufacturer, what are some of the experience requirements? What are some of the salaries that you get paid? Right? Of course, it's at a general level but it gives them some kind of a forward path, what to expect, how is your career going to line up with this industry. So a lot of cool initiatives and we're still working on the future once on the similar lines but this partnership I think is here to be celebrated for awhile.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, definitely. I mean, one of my favorite part of the Roofing Alliance meetings is when you get up to speak and get us all up to date because I just love, I mean, the thought that we are really enticing that next generation to what we all feel is an amazing industry. We love roofing but we need to share that out on a bigger picture and you're doing that so thank you that's so cool. So in your class on roofing I just want to kind of, because you've got the research projects and I'm sure your students are involved in that and they go to the IRE, the student competition, everything, what is some of the feedback? What are you hearing from students about what they like about roofing and even from some of your research, what may entice them even more to get involved and to look for a job in roofing?

Dhaval Gajjar:
Absolutely. So a couple of things on that, we treat our roofing courses as research projects and what I mean by that is we just did not want to offer a roofing course until we were doing it but we actually want to measure, is it making any impact in students' minds or their perception? Now, not everyone that comes into our roofing course is going to work for the roofing industry, right? I mean, that's an unrealistic expectation, but our job is to make sure that the perception change happens within the classrooms. And so one of the coolest things, well, we have seen with this whole course is, now we offer these two times is, well, generally when we ask them before the course, what do you know about the roofing industry? And normally the response is not so overwhelming whatsoever, almost 90% said that they have never known what roofing is, 90, 95%.

Dhaval Gajjar:
But when we do that same question after a course is offered that number significantly jumps up to about now 90, 95% actually know about the industry now, so to me that's a big celebration point is when we have done our job. Now, if they want to go work in the roofing industry, that is up to them, but we have done our part to educate our students on what the industry is all about. One of the other aspects that they love is the involvement of industry of professionals, by far that has been the hallmark of this program is the involvement of roofing professionals who come to our classes guest lecturers, who come and talk to our students, who are always willing to help our students and that's been one of the hottest success factors.

Dhaval Gajjar:
And the word in our department is, it's one of the best classes you can take in our department because you get to hear from actual roofing professionals and not from Dr. Gajjar, right? That's what they say in a really nice way. There's a new guest speaker every time who's so knowledgeable about a specific topic because our roofing industry is very specialized so trying to find that one person who knows everything is very unrealistic. So we try to find industry professionals who come in my classrooms to talk to these students and that's been one of the, like I said, that's been one of the most liked aspects about this program is involvement of industry professionals. But yeah, I think I answered that Heidi, I'm sorry if I missed something.

Heidi Ellsworth:
No. I love it because I have a number of friends who have presented in your class and they come out talking about it just as jazzed and excited as it sounds like the kids are, it is just a highlight for industry professionals to be able to present.

Dhaval Gajjar:
Absolutely. Yeah. And one other thing I will note is, it's great that we have a course, that we have a student competition, that we have industry professionals, a great, great, start. But I think you mentioned, what's the next thing? What are students looking for? And I think students are looking for a culture that is collaborative. Millennials are looking for a culture that gives them freedom to think, they are looking for things that would make them feel empowered, that they are trying to do good for the community. I mean, I can't think of any other industry than roofing which will give you the sense of fulfillment that you're doing something for the community because you can physically see it.

Dhaval Gajjar:
So my challenge to the professionals who are hearing this is to offer internship programs, and it doesn't have to be Clemson students, I mean, we don't have that many students to fill all the roofing industry which we hope we do someday but not today. But the key is to provide internships, reach out to your local schools, reach out to your local universities, reach out to your local institutions, community colleges, and be involved in those educational institutions and see if you can come with an internship program. We have this course we have developed and the key is to start developing their relationship where maybe they'll be interested to offer some of the courses we have developed within your local institution, that's the key next step. The industry professionals can get involved and there's internships and be more involved within their local institutions where we can offer some of these courses.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I have to tell you, that is one of the questions I was just going to ask you was, what does the future look like? Not just from the students who are looking at it but overall, and you answered it. That's perfect. That it needs to be the involvement of the roofing industry, taking what you've done to their local universities, to their local trade schools, to their vocational schools, all of that, to get involved.

Dhaval Gajjar:
Absolutely. And I think it is our responsibility, each and every company's responsibility, to do their part in educating other professionals or students or future generations about our roofing industry. It's not someone else's job, it's our job to do that.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. Or other construction management schools that you're very involved with. Yeah.

Dhaval Gajjar:
Absolutely. Good one.

Heidi Ellsworth:
So if you were talking to some of these other construction management schools or to the industry overall, what do you like best about roofing?

Dhaval Gajjar:
Me?

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yes, you.

Dhaval Gajjar:
Oh boy. Okay. I can talk on that for a long time. But if I had to pick a few things, there's one word that kind of sums up my excitement for this industry and that simple word is people.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I agree.

Dhaval Gajjar:
People and not only people but it's very neat to see an industry that is so tight knit that is such a big industry but it's such a close community that everyone is of course, competing and trying to do their best part for their company but at the same time everyone is achieving the common goal of making our industry better than what it was when they started, I mean, everyone I've met has this passion to make an impact on the industry. To me that's the most exciting part is people care, people care about the industry just beyond their business profit, they care, most of the people care. So to me that's been the most favorite aspect is to see people's excitement, their energy. And again, that all sums up with one word is just people in the industry are phenomenal, just phenomenal. And I have dealt with other trades but roofing is, I can say, one of the industries where people do actually make a difference and they want to make a difference.

Heidi Ellsworth:
They do. And really outside of roofing a lot of times people don't know that, they don't know what an amazing industry this is so I always feel like it's our job to share that, share the community, to share who we are. And I think that's one of the things that it's all of us doing, it's the NRCA, it's the Roofing Alliance, it's Roofers Coffee Shop, it's all the different people who are like, we are professionals and this is a very professional trade and it needs to be out there more. So Dhaval, thank you for helping us become more professional because you have done so much in the last three to four years that has just taken the roofing industry up a whole new level.

Dhaval Gajjar:
Appreciate it. Thank you Heidi. And thank you to all the professionals for your involvement, the Roofing Alliance, NRCA, Roofers Coffee Shop, NWR, everyone has been very, very involved in this program and that's been a great partnership. So again, thank you goes back to you as well Heidi and all the other amazing professionals for making this happen. Because I would end with this, none of this would have been possible without the support of the industry, none of this. So a lot of credit goes to the industry, the professionals who invested their time and be guest speakers, in responding to our surveys and attending our meetings, our task force, steering committee, all those amazing people, I think all of the credit goes back to the industry. We are here because of the industry and the amazing people in the industry.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Well, and you are a part of the industry so there we go.

Dhaval Gajjar:
Yes I am.

Heidi Ellsworth:
You are. Well, I do want to encourage everyone who's listening, there's a couple things that I would love for you to do. One, I would love for you to go to roofingalliance.net and check out the student competition, the research projects, the classes, it's all on there, Dhaval's and his team's research, it's not all public but it's there and you can start learning more about it. And then one of the things that's really cool on the Roofing Alliance website is that you can see the other teams that have competed, the other universities, Colorado State, Florida. There are just a number of universities that have competed year after year in the student competition and you might live right next to them, you might be able to get involved, you don't know, so you need to go out there and check it out.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And again as always, Roofing Alliance is fully on Roofers Coffee Shop in their directory, we have all this information about what Clemson is doing, many articles, many more articles are going to come out and all those videos on YouTube of the Clemson and Colorado State students are pretty inspirational so I'd ask that everybody take a moment and just celebrate what's happened. Dhaval, we've come to the end of our roofing road trip but I hope you'll join me again in the future.

Dhaval Gajjar:
I will. Thank you again Heidi for having me, this has been fun.

Heidi Ellsworth:
It is fun. And somebody out there right now is up on a roof with AirPods in listening to this so thank you all for listening, thank you for being a part of Roofers Coffee Shop. You can find all the podcasts into the Read Listen Watch initiative on rooferscoffeeshop.com and you can also find them on your favorite podcast channel. Be sure to subscribe, we'll see you next time. Thanks.

Speaker 1:
Make sure to subscribe to our channel and leave a review. Thanks for listening. This has been Roofing Road Trips with Heidi from the rooferscoffeeshop.com.