Dennis Vowles - On Guard: Protecting Roofs with Garrdal - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Dennis Vowles of Garrdal Corporation. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Intro: Welcome to Roofing Road Trips, the podcast that takes you on a thrilling journey across the world of roofing. From fascinating interviews with roofing experts to on the road adventures, we'll uncover the stories, innovations and challenges that shape the rooftops over our heads. So fasten your seat belts and join us as we embark on this exciting roofing road trip. 

Karen Edwards: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Roofing Road Trip from Roofers Coffee Shop. My name Karen Edward, and today's episode is welcoming Dennis from Al Corporation to talk about some of the cutting edge products that they have and what they've been doing in the roofing industry for some time now. Dennis, welcome to the podcast. 

Dennis Vowles: Thanks for having me. Karen. 

Karen Edwards: Can you just introduce yourself for our listeners? Maybe share a little bit about you and your journey and the roofing industry. 

Dennis Vowles: I've been up and down on roofs since I was a teenager, so sometime in the seventies was when I started in Canada actually and moved to the US back in 1993. Most recent ending of being a general contractor was in 2016 when I got the patent on Garrdal

Dennis Vowles: Started selling our original Garrdal all two part pipeline. And we've since added two others to it. We've got a deep slope addition or model and we just are just releasing now a low profile one that doesn't take away too much from the shingles. A lot of times the designer shingles homeowners are looking for something that's not as intrusive, where the flashings don't come out of the roof as far. So we've got a low profile al as well. 

Karen Edwards: Nice. Okay. So I, I'd like to hear what led to, because so many times in this industry you see the development or introduction of a product because a contractor kept running into a problem, right. Or was really frustrated with something and they, they say, man, you know, there's gotta be a better way. I can do this better. Um, so I'd like to hear your story of the development of the original. What started it all? 

Dennis Vowles: Well, being from Canada, they, I only remember split boots being in Canada for a year or two when I was much, much younger. And roofer stopped buying them because the snow load would pop the clips off of them. Snow would come down the roof, pop the clips off. So roofers would cut up two, three in one and put them back together around a pipe with a bunch of sealant. They didn't nest together well, but and look kind of janky, but it was, they trusted it more than they would a split boot and that that's the way that we went around pipes, that we couldn't push a standard pipe p over like an electrical mast, I guess was the main, the main use for it. Or a lot of older houses that would have a knuckled soil attack that you couldn't push a standard boot over at the top of the soil because there was a, it was larger at the top than it was at the, at the roof line. So we would cut up those two and put 'em back together. That's what led to developing this because I put hundreds of split boots on houses and I knew there was gonna be a problem at some point. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. So tell me how, because I don't know much about Garal, you know, tell me what the original looks like and how it solves the problem of, of eliminating problem. 

Dennis Vowles: Well, the original, I tried for a long time to get a metal base because I was, I was uncomfortable with plastics and frankly I knew nothing about plastics. There's, you know, thousands of different types, but I was looking for metal and when the engineer I was dealing with developing this asked, well, you know, what is, what is it you're looking for in the metal? Why won't you use plastic? 'cause it's lighter, it doesn't rust when it bends, it goes back in shape. And I kinda looked at him and just said, I don't know, <laugh>, I was looking for metal. And he said, well, what if we could find a plastic with all the properties of metal, but it's chip lighter, wouldn't that work? And I thought, okay. And so we, we ended up making Garrdal so that there's structural support from the rigid base that, that, that gets nailed to the roof and that keeps the gasket in contact with the pipe. So even if the pipe sways, there's physical pressure keeping the gasket against the pipe or the collar or the seal against the pipe. So it's not gonna allow water to depend it. So it ended up being a much better solution than what was out there. The problem was that nobody knew about it yet. It was, it was new <laugh>. 

Karen Edwards: Right. So 

Dennis Vowles: That, that's where the challenges started, <laugh>. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. Well, you said that you have been doing this since 2017, is that correct? 

Dennis Vowles: Yes. Yeah, we sold with the Garrdal 17. Yeah, yeah.Garrdal since 2017. We've got 16, a hundred dealers now. 

Karen Edwards: And then with feedback and probably, you know, usage and and talking to, to contractors, you kind of make the next generation. And, and you know, you mentioned that you've got three now. So what, what followed the original and tell me how that came about. 

Dennis Vowles: After the original, what happened was, more and more people were asking for a solution for a deeper roof. It was rare that you had an electrical mast coming through a deep roof, but more and more with high efficiency appliances and furnaces, they would, they would penetrate through the roof with a vent on top normally to hold a concentric pipe. So the demand kept in, kept on increasing. So we changed some of the angles and we've got, this is the only retrofit that's manufactured for a 12, 12 or steeper in the world. So when someone's faced on a, on a very steep roof with a challenge to put a pipe flashing around a pipe because they can't push it over the pipe, they either have to make their own or by Garrdal or reuse the old one. And a lot of these are on the fronts of houses. So the choices are limited Garrdal looks like new construction, so that's the, the easiest choice. 

Karen Edwards: Right. Yeah. Reusing old materials when the new brick is coming in, doesn't really look that night, does it? <laugh>? 

Dennis Vowles: No, no. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. And, and you know, a lot of the larger higher end homes tend to have those super pit growth and it, you know, just making, developing a solution for that pretty, pretty innovative. 

Dennis Vowles: Absolutely. 

Karen Edwards: And I'd like, I'd like to hear more about the latest product, what it is, what it does and why the story behind the development of that. And that's the Garrdallp, is that correct? 

Dennis Vowles: Yes. The LP for low profile more and more. Well, what I, there's, there's a company that I know of that's out there that manufactures platform to leak for roof mounted equipment. A lot of times in the southwest they've got air conditioners or some other air exchanger that, that's mounted on the roof with four posts that come through the roof to support the platform. So we develop Garrdallow profile because the penetrations are smaller than what Garrdal was designed to accommodate original Garrdal is can be used from an inch pipe. And some of these, these platforms have smaller pipes than that. So we, we created Garrdal LP that has a smaller opening or choice of a smaller opening and it only comes about an inch and a half out of the roof instead of a little over three inches is what Garrdal would come out of the roof. So it's a lot more sleek. It, it isn't nearly as noticeable from the ground. And we also, I expect that, that a solar manufacturer at some point is going to start to use standoffs instead of rails. So this will easily accommodate that need when it develops, if it doesn't enough, enough platforms are gonna justify manufacturers that the, the platforms used for at time. 

Karen Edwards: So you mentioned, you know, you had <inaudible>, you wanted metal, but you were working with an engineer, you, you know, said, well, plastic and you have these similar properties. Talk a little bit about the, the, you know, being on a roof is hard, right? It's hard work for the product, the things that you're put installing up there. So maybe you could talk a little bit about the, the resistance to the height temperatures. What about hail? What does that look like for Garrdal? 

Dennis Vowles: Well, we were at a show in Texas and just for fun, it wasn't that busy at the trade show at the time and we put a Garrdal in front of a hail gun and they at Terminal velocity with a two inch chunk of hail. We tried to break Garrdal and could not got several last or seven times it got hit. And, and it, it, there was no impact. I mean, there was impact that happened, but it didn't have any effect on, on Garrdal's fairly rigid. There's a few curves in it, kinda like a car. They don't make a flat panel on a car. There's, there's some contour to it and that adds strength to it. And I think that's what they Garrdal from the hail gut. 

Karen Edwards: Wow. Yeah. That's impressive. It's very impressive. What about low temperatures? Because when I think of plastics and, you know, just really, really cold, sometimes they crack, but so how do you, how do you get around that? 

Dennis Vowles: That's, that's exactly what I thought at first. That was one of the reasons why I wanted, I wanted metal or I thought I wanted that. Yeah. And then when the engineer actually said, he said, you know, we can get you a plastic that you can see through it and it stops a bullet. There's thousands of plastics out there. And that was when he asked me about the properties that I wanted and 'cause all I could relate to were the plastic seven 50 vents from 30 or 40 years ago that if you nailed it in cold it would crack. 

Karen Edwards: Right. 

Dennis Vowles: And it was just, you know, you just got a blend, different, different plastics. I mean, my father-in-law retired from Ford and and I, I remember on the Crown Victoria's, he was telling me that was one of the, one of the things that, that he was working on was developing the wheel well on the Crown Victoria. Well it's plastic and 40 degrees out and ice all over the road and debris and stuff. And the wheels are kicking up stuff from the road into these pla into the plastic wheel well, so that doesn't break the wheel wells. So depending on, on what the blend of the plastic is, it can accommodate a ton of different properties. The high hottest a roof gets is, you know, 150 to 160 degrees. So as long as the plastic that's being used is designed for that, you're okay. And ours will operate over 200 degrees. 

Karen Edwards: Wow. You don't know what you don't know, right. <laugh>? Um, exactly. Absolutely. Okay, so my next question is, you obviously gotta use some kind of sealant, I would say caulk, sealant something after you install it. So that's gotta play an important part in making sure that it continues to perform. So can you talk a little bit about choosing the right Cox and Dealer to use with us? Do you have any that you partner with or recommend? 

Dennis Vowles: There's about 30 dealing all adhesive ceiling that are listed on in the FAQ page of our website. And those are are ones that we recommend. So what we, we, we tested them and we're, we're comfortable with their adhesive qualities. So it will stick to the plastics that we use and the more UV resistance, the better in case somebody happens to get some sealant that's exposed to, to sunlight. But Garrdal is designed that the sealant goes between the two parts of Garrdal so it doesn't see the sunshine. 

Karen Edwards: Oh, that's really you do. 

Dennis Vowles: Yeah. Then sometimes people think, oh, that's, I, I use silicone while silicone. The adhesive qualities of silicone on a flat surface are not good. Some of the hybrids are, are silicone based, so they may have some adhesive qualities, but not the adhesive qualities that we want. Silicone is great UV resistant, but not so much adhesiveness. So we look for a blend of that. So solar seal is, is the best one, but again, it's not exposed to the sunlight. Right. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah, that's, that's like really good. 

Dennis Vowles: Anytime that we use sealant on Garrdal or frankly on anywhere on a roof, ideally the shingles or some other substrate is going to keep that out of the sunlight. The nails on Garrdal end up getting covered with shingles. Oh, okay. All gets covered with shingles. 

Karen Edwards: Okay. So it's really well protected. 

Dennis Vowles: Yes. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Because, you know, a lot of times I think that that the feeling breaking down or the caulk breaking down is, is one of the reasons that we get leaked, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So by, by protecting it from the sunlight. Yeah, that's a fantastic idea. Thank you. <laugh>. Yeah. You Lindsay, yeah. You mentioned being at shows and so it's 2025, so you've been doing this for eight years, right? You've got a lot of installations, a a lot of the product installed out there on road. What are contractors reactors to it? When, when they see the product at a show? 

Dennis Vowles: At the show, the first the, either they say, oh, I came up with that 40 years ago, but they did nothing about the idea. Or sometimes you've got the naysayers that say, ah, plastic, well, you know, that's the same way I was. But they're usually the kind of people that make that comment and keep on walking <laugh>. They won't, they won't take the time to realize that, that they don't know what they don't know. Aside from that, it's absolutely positive. Uh, the, one of the shows in Canada, the first time we went up to Canada with it, we were the bell of the ball. Everybody stood in front of our table to watch the, you know, just, we only had at the time regular Garrdal, well, we go to the same show in April this year and we'll have three different products though. So we're, we're growing through Canada. 

Dennis Vowles: We do pretty good at the job. Yeah, yeah. A lot of people that haven't seen Garal, they love the idea. A lot of them get frustrated that they didn't take their idea and pursue it. But after having, having gone through what I went through to get this thing off the ground, I don't know how many people would would last to get it going because it is, the roofing industry is slow to change it. They are under laymen's, been around for a, you know, over 20 years and there are still pockets of the nation that don't know what synthetic under laymen, 

Karen Edwards: Right? Yeah. It's like, oh, this new 

Dennis Vowles: Thing. Plastic. Yeah. Yeah. It's uh, it, it's something. But you know, as they learn, you know, even, even a ridge vent, yes, it's the most, the most logical place to put it. But roofing was going on forever before somebody thought, Hey, let's get the exhaust at the highest point of the roof. Nobody thought of that. 

Karen Edwards: Well it's true because we send, we, we tend to say, Hey, you know, we've been doing it this way for the last 25 years and it's been just fine. So why would we paint? But if, if you can have a product that you know is gonna last for the life of that roof and eliminate the leak around the tight penetration, why wouldn't you use it? 

Dennis Vowles: Especially when it's easier to install, faster to install, looks like new construction not a retrofit. The rookie on the crew can put it on in about the same amount of time, less than a minute. As the guy that's been on the roof for 20 years. I mean, it's pretty simple. You get two parts, make 'em one <laugh>. Yeah. There's not a lot to it <laugh>. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. So one of the questions that I know homeowners often ask is about warranties, you know, whether that's performance, <inaudible>, manufacturer. How does Garrdal, you know, work with the other manufacturers? What does that look like? 

Dennis Vowles: Well, the, the most important part of Garrdal is the installation and the sealant that's used on the installation. So we can't, we can't warranty that 'cause we have no control over what roofers are going to use 

Karen Edwards: Pep trail. 

Dennis Vowles: They may use a caulking instead of an adhesive sealant. We've got the seal unsolicited. That doesn't mean that the roofer has it readily available. So I wish there was a way, I guess we could put a sealant with the product, but then they just lose the, but like you lose the clips on a split boot 

Karen Edwards: <laugh>. Right. 

Dennis Vowles: You fix it. So yeah, there, there, it would be great if there were a way for us to, to know they're using an approved sealant and installing it accordingly. But there's no way to know Right, right. Parts if there's a problem when, if there's a quality problem when they grab it off the, off the shelf, we will replace the, the product. If somebody says, oh, this the, the plastic didn't spread out to the outside edge or there's some issue, we replace it. We replace it. But considering the numbers of, of visual inspections that it gets during manufacturing because it's, it's a three, three part process and then packaging. So it's handled four times. 

Karen Edwards: Oh wow, okay. 

Dennis Vowles: You know, visual inspection between each of those times 

Karen Edwards: The quality, lots of 

Dennis Vowles: Quality control. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. 

Dennis Vowles: Yeah, 

Karen Edwards: It's good. Okay. And I noticed that you do have some installation videos on your website. A lot of information on your website for someone that's interested at three four. So I just wanna share that it's garal D-A-R-R-D-A l.com to check it out. But where can, how does the contractor buy it? Where do they find Gar? 

Dennis Vowles: Our biggest customer would be a BC supply. I think 400 of their stores have it on the Do 

Karen Edwards: Y 

Dennis Vowles: And then, then we're also in, you know, beacon and SRS and Gulf Eagle. We're in all of them. Okay. Not all. There's, there's two we're not. So we're working on those. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah, why not? Come on <laugh>. 

Dennis Vowles: Well one of them is housed outta Canada, so our expansion into Canada good health, it, 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. 

Dennis Vowles: Some, maybe, maybe they'll start stalking it and and the other one is, you know, way over on the west coast, we, they've been trying to stalk it. They've been asking their head office to stock it, but there's, you never know where resistance comes from. Right. Often, oftentimes there's people that are, you know, in that decision making process that have never been on a roof, but they're gonna make decisions about roofing products. 

Karen Edwards: That's so true. Yeah. Yeah. Come out in the field 

Dennis Vowles: That's okay. <laugh>. Exactly. And if that store doesn't stock it, not a problem. The roofer will figure out that the store down the road stocks it. 

Karen Edwards: Right. 

Dennis Vowles: So the guy that was the customer of the first store that didn't buy it, well now he becomes the customer of the, the other store that does stock. 

Karen Edwards: Right, right. 

Dennis Vowles: Yeah. We're selling the product. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. And I'm, I'm looking at your list of approved at Zealand. There's a lot of familiar names out here, so it's not hard to use the right one. <laugh>. 

Dennis Vowles: No, not at all. The, the thing that a, a lot of roofers are not always happy with is typically if it's, if it's in a plastic container, it doesn't stick to plastics that well. Now that there are hybrids though, some of the hybrids are in a plastic tube and they actually do stick to plastics once they're both to moisture. No, there's moisture air. So if they, you know, they use that sealant. If it's on that list, then we've tested it and the adhesive qualities are, we're in the range where we're comfortable. Excellent. More and more it's even even more readily available. But if it's in a paper tube, that's usually 'cause it, it sticks plastics. So a lot of paper tube ones that aren't petroleum based, those are approved sealant. 

Karen Edwards: Okay. Yeah, that makes sense why it would be in a paper tube if it's fixed to plastic <laugh>. Excellent. And it sounds to me like, and this is working with whatever kind of roofing system, whether it's asphalt shingle, whether it's a synthetic that it's gonna work. Well 

Dennis Vowles: It's jingles is what it's designed for. There's a couple of people that have found ways to, to use use Garrdal on metal roofs, but that's not what it's, it was designed for. 

Dennis Vowles: Metal roofs have, you know, themes, standing themes on them and they'll get in the way of a rigid base of a product like Garrdal. But I did meet a contractor in Arizona who dries in the roof. He's up in the mountains in Arizona where it's 30 degrees overnight and 85 in the day. And he said the moisture that gets between the roof deck and the lower side of the, of the metal roof warrant seal the roof deck with Garrdal and then putting a standard pipe flashing over top or standard pipe flashing for a metal roof over top of Garrdal once the, the metal roof is down. 

Karen Edwards: Interesting. Because, you know my 

Dennis Vowles: From penetrating 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. When people find another use or the product that it wasn't developed for that, but it works <laugh> so that's always fun. All right. So now you mentioned that you are at shows you, you're gonna be at the Canada show this April and you know, people can see it, touch it, feel it, talk to you about it or someone from your team, um or they can get more information on Garal V-D-A-R-R-D-A l.com. Well, Dennis 

Dennis Vowles: Yes. So much and it, well I wanted to add that any of the roofers that want a little bit of, of a bump, we, if someone sends us installed images or videos, they can send that through to our contactPage@Garrdal.com. We're more than happy to credit them with the, with the image or the video and put it on our website. 

Karen Edwards: Oh nice. 

Dennis Vowles: So it would, well I especially videos, I mean, anything that's helpful, we wanna help the roofers out because, you know, this is, it'll, it'll work on pipe ranges depending on which unit they use anywhere from, you know, three quarters of an inch now with, with the Garrdal LP up to five and three eights inches and they're good for, from a three 12 up to over at 1212 with Garrdal 12 plus. So there's a range of pipe sizes and pitches that one of the three products is, is gonna accommodate a solution on a Shangle roof. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah, yeah. Share, share your 

Dennis Vowles: Credit, credit the customer, 

Karen Edwards: Share the pictures, share the videos, show off your work. Right. Uh, so many, so many contractors don't, don't do that enough. Right. <laugh> 

Dennis Vowles: No. Yeah. And if, if somebody can see it, I mean, it's great to, to tell a customer that, that you're gonna do this or do that. But if you can show 'em or better still, if they've seen what you're doing before you tell 'em, you know, if they happen to bounce into our website and and see, see an installation of Garrdal and they realize what a difference it is compared to alternative, uh, solutions to get around a pipe makes the sale of the roof a whole lot easier. 

Karen Edwards: Oh, for sure. Yeah. And it looks nice, you know, the, the finished product looks nice and that's what everybody wants at the end of the day. It's when you know your refi appeal to the home, that's what the homeowner wants to a finished nice aesthetic appearance. Definitely 

Dennis Vowles: A new roof should look new. Yeah, 

Karen Edwards: Yeah, for sure. Especially 'cause it's an investment. Right. And it's just, wow. Thank you Dennis again for, for being here today for hearing about Garrdaland I encourage everyone to visit Garrdal.com or if you're going one of the trade shows, just see and swing by say hi to the team and see it experience for your, experience it for yourself. Dennis, thank you for being here today. 

Dennis Vowles: Well thank you for having me 

Karen Edwards: And I wanna thank everybody out there for listening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll, we'll be, we'll be looking for you at the next show, Dennis. And yeah, thank you everybody out there for listening to this episode. Be sure to subscribe, follow up on your favorite podcast platform because we wanna see you on a future episode. Take care. Bye-bye. Okay, thanks Jennifer. I wasn't really hanging up but <laugh> I was gonna say right, right. <laugh>, I 

Karen Edwards: Yeah, no, this, this, this is fine. This will go over to our multimedia team. They will do some editing, making sure we sound, uh, uh, brilliant and smart and they do a great job. And then Joseph, we'll send it over so you can take a list and if there's anything that you want edited, just make a note of like where it was and we can make edits for you or if it's good to go, then you can just say it's approved and we'll push it out onto all the different podcast platforms, 

Dennis Vowles: Cooper, and then I'll put it on my, on my stuff too. 

Karen Edwards: Excellent. 

Dennis Vowles: You anyway. 

Karen Edwards: Yep. And then we'll, we'll put it on social media at some point. It, it gets finished and then it takes a couple of weeks 'cause we've got a lineup, but then we feature the podcast on our social media and in our e letter as well. 

Dennis Vowles: Well that's why I didn't mention Nerca, 

Karen Edwards: Right, 

Dennis Vowles: Because are you going to Atlantic City next week? 

Karen Edwards: I am. Are you gonna be there? 

Dennis Vowles: Yep. Or where are we? We're six 15 I think. 

Karen Edwards: Oh my gosh. I think we're in the six I row. I could be wrong, but it's not a huge show, so I'll be sure to come by and say hi. You know, last time 

Dennis Vowles: I was at Ner it wasn't a bad show. The problem was that at the same time, I don't know if you went to this one, it was, it was at the, the ca a large casino. I can't remember the name of it. It 

Karen Edwards: Was Connecticut. 

Dennis Vowles: Yes. 

Karen Edwards: With Yes, I was there. That was two years ago. 

Dennis Vowles: Okay. And and the problem was that NCA was there and so was nca. There was a New England real estate. Ooh, 

Karen Edwards: That's right. 

Dennis Vowles: <laugh>. And we parked, we didn't know there was like eight parking lots and and that casino was set up with like two circular things. We parked at the farthest one and walked all the way around through and then we went to the wrong area, I think. Oh 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. Well I think we're the only, we're the only NCA at the Hard Rock next week <laugh>. 

Dennis Vowles: Alright. And I, well I didn't, I don't get get rooms at the Hard Rock, so I'm staying over at Borgata. 

Karen Edwards: Oh, nice. 

Dennis Vowles: But all of rental car. Yeah, they, they gave me a 700 square foot rink. I like it 

Karen Edwards: <laugh>. Oh wow. Yeah. You're gonna live in the highlight next week. That sounds great. Yeah. Awesome. Okay, well welcome by, I'll say hi and introduce myself in Princeton and we'll see ya in Atlantic City. Super. 

Dennis Vowles: All right. And are you guys going to, are you going to Canada? 

Karen Edwards: Yes, I am. Not personally. 

Dennis Vowles: You're going to C 

Karen Edwards: Mutual. Alex 

Dennis Vowles: Heidi going, 

Karen Edwards: Heidi is not, he is gonna be somewhere else but Megan Ellsworth, Heidi's daughter and Alex Paul will be there along with Zane, who was one of our multimedia producers. Um, so yeah, they'll be there, say hi at the show and introduce yourself. 

Dennis Vowles: Yes, I will. And 

Karen Edwards: All right. 

Dennis Vowles: And then I don't, you know what, there's, aside from all these small shows and Hail Trace shows that I've been doing, but Hail Trace is finally over. 

Karen Edwards: Oh yeah. 

Dennis Vowles: And I've just got, I've just got little store near me called Modern Builders Supply. Oh, I've heard of that. Got 26. Well, they have 26 branches and they're, they've got an amazing online presence by mbs.com. Yeah, they have, they have customer appreciation shows that have been going on for a few weeks and now they're going on for the next, I dunno, 40 days. So I've got a bunch Oh wow. Of those I've gotta get to. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. Well they're fun. The smaller ones a lot of times can 

Dennis Vowles: Really, I like, I like the smaller ones. You, you get in and get out <laugh>. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah, that's true. They're only a couple of hours and you get to have them really good conversations. <laugh>, 

Dennis Vowles: Now I've, now I heard some better things about Wind the Storm. I may give that a shot again. 

Karen Edwards: Well, we're recording this call so I will not comment. <laugh>. 

Dennis Vowles: Well, I, I, it's funny 'cause I was at dinner, I was at dinner and a couple of the guys beside me knew, knew, uh, Anthony. 

Karen Edwards: Okay. 

Dennis Vowles: And I don't know, I don't know how much of it was his unraveling or what it all was. The last Wind Storms show that I went to though was atrocious an absolute waste of money. And, and then somebody else took it over and I heard, so, you know, we were, a bunch of us from from Hail Trace Group were talking and and the feedback became a lot more positive. But I, I don't want to take several thousand dollars flyers. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. Didn't Josie, Josie Tar bought that so 

Dennis Vowles: That who it was, I don't know. They, they, yes. They said a lot of positive things though that, that the Josie a become more marketing instead of pushing. Yeah, 

Karen Edwards: Josie is a great guy. Yeah. He has, he's owned his own roof company for years in the Dallas Fort Worth area. Really successful in the tech. And he has another business called Cognitive Contractor. He was a keynote secret. IE it last time we were in Vegas, I think. Yeah. Super guy. So if he's, I, I'm pretty sure he's the one that bought the show. You could expect good things. 

Dennis Vowles: Alright, well I may I make a note right now. IREI or W-T-S-I-I can see I've got it marked on the calendar for August. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. Yeah. If it and t is this Josie Park? Yeah. I would highly recommend anything he is involved in. He's a good dude. 

Dennis Vowles: Alright. Well, I I kept it up there without confirmation though, just 'cause I, you know, it's a real, real bad taste in my mouth last time. 

Karen Edwards: Right. Yeah, I know. Yeah. He had 

Dennis Vowles: A golden to do 

Karen Edwards: <laugh>. 

Dennis Vowles: Well, I mean, between, there was less than a thousand people and that included all of the vendors. Oh, there was nobody there. SRS was supposed to be right across from us. They didn't bother every, there was a bunch of places didn't bother showing. 

Karen Edwards: Wow. 

Dennis Vowles: But the first one I went to, there was a lot of people that went, I don't know what happened that changed at all, but I didn't wanna look into it. I heard lots of rumors, but I don't know which one was 

Karen Edwards: Right. Yeah. <laugh> kicking with a grain of salt, but 

Dennis Vowles: Right. I, I just, I didn't like how it was way, way, way, way oversold and certainly undelivered, but maybe it'll come around next time. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah. 

Dennis Vowles: Blame, they blame the weather, I'm sure. 

Karen Edwards: As always somebody else's fault, right? <laugh>? 

Dennis Vowles: Oh yes. Oh yeah, <laugh>. I am. All right. Well, thank you much and I will get back on with my day and and see you next week. 

Karen Edwards: Yeah, yeah. Sounds good. Thanks again, Dennis. Bye-bye. 

Dennis Vowles: You're welcome. Thanks, bye. 

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