David Stahler – Snow Retention and Exposed-fastened Roofs - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with David Stahler  of S-5!. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

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Megan Ellsworth: Hello, everyone. My name is Megan Ellsworth, and you are listening to Roofing Road Trips from RoofersCoffeeshop.com. I'm so excited. I'm here with my friend David Stahler from S-5!, and we're going to be talking about snow retention. We just had a bunch of snow here in Colorado, so I'm excited to talk about all the different options people have and welcome to the podcast, David.

David Stahler: Thank you so much for having us, Megan and for having me. Greatly appreciate it, and thanks for all that RoofersCoffeeShop does.

Megan Ellsworth: Absolutely. Sure thing. Okay, so I would love to just learn a little bit more about you and S-5!

David Stahler: Awesome. Well, I've been with S-5! close to 14 years now. I've worked mainly in sales, dabbled a little bit in marketing and done just about everything there is to do on the sales end. So I've been with them since the beginning. A little bit about S-5!, S-5! is a premier metal roofing attachment company. We've been in business since about 1992, I believe. So over 30 years now. We're an innovation, testing and education company, which we're going to do today is some education.

David Stahler: Our product is made in the USA, and over 3 million roofs have trusted S-5! for their attachment needs. And really we make solutions for almost any metal roof, standing seam, exposed, fastened roofs and you can attach just about anything, whether it's what we're talking about today, snow retention or solar utility applications like satellite dishes and Starlink and HVAC units, electronics. Really anything you put on a roof, we probably have a clamp or bracket for you. But that's what we do.

Megan Ellsworth: Wow, that's awesome. I'm just excited to learn about all your different systems. So let's dive right in. For those of you out there listening that don't know, David, what is a snow retention system?

David Stahler: So a snow retention system is kind of think of it as a bouncer for your roof's snow party. But instead of guarding who comes in, it guards what goes out.

Megan Ellsworth: Love it.

David Stahler: So it won't let any snow leave your roof in a catastrophic fashion. So basically a snow guard is a deliberately designed gadget that keeps snow from sliding off your roof all at once, which could result in some chaotic rooftop avalanche and, in all seriousness, cause a lot of damage. So instead, it lets the snow leave in a common orderly fashion, much like a bouncer would do, through thawing, evaporation, melting. And this happens in a very intentional designed way.

David Stahler: And so the reason I use the word intentional and designed is there is such a thing as unintentional snow retention on a roof. And that would be anything that sticks out of that roof that could create friction, because that's really what we're doing with a snow retention device is creating friction on a slippery surface. So this could be a satellite dish, roof penetration, stacking, venting. Even an ice dam can act as snow retention.

Megan Ellsworth: Oh wow!

David Stahler: The problem is an ice dam and those other things aren't very reliable and they weren't designed and engineered for that. So while unintentional snow barriers, Megan or products not designed and tested specifically for snow retention might seem handy at the time, they can fail in a spectacular manner. So they'll have snow crashing down. So really what you want to do is a snow guard is built for the job. It should be reliable, tested and engineered. Kind of like your roof superhero. And that's what we do at S-5! for our snow retention.

Megan Ellsworth: That's awesome. I love how you described that. I think that was great. So how does snow behave when it accumulates on a roof?

David Stahler: Yeah, great question, Megan. So first off, anybody that has ever seen an avalanche can picture how snow might behave on a roof. So when snow piles up on your roof in cold weather, it makes two deals. First, it shakes hands with the roof through a strong, but I'll call it finicky bond called a temperature sensitive adhesive bond. So it sticks to the roof. We've all seen an image of somebody taking her tongue and sticking it to a pole in the wintertime.

David Stahler: One of my favorite Christmas movies, A Christmas Story, of course, has that scene in it. And then they pour water on it and it releases. So there is this temperature sensitive bond that occurs. The second bond is a weaker bond, and it forms at the ridge of the roof, kind of like snow's backup plan. It's called a cohesive bond. Now, imagine and if your listeners can imagine, the sun comes out or the air warms up or your building is just leaking heat. You don't have great insulation.

David Stahler: Suddenly, that strong bond, that frictional bond, starts to break and the roof starts to get slippery from meltwater. Making it worse, is that meltwater because it's going to reduce any friction that might have been there. Now the only thing we have left is our cohesive bond at the ridge, and it tries its best to hold on. But when the snow force is greater than that cohesive bond, bam, the snow starts sliding off the roof usually in a catastrophic manner, much like an avalanche.

David Stahler: Now, this force is known as a vector force or gravity load. This force is greater than the cohesive strength, and that's when that ridge gives up. Pardon me. I want your listening audience to picture that avalanche, whether they've seen it on a roof or whether they've seen it in a video somewhere, just off a mountain. So when that comes crashing down, as we've all seen, it can be very destructive. And on a serious note, fortunately, it can cause personal injury and even death.

Megan Ellsworth: Oh wow! Yeah, absolutely. I believe it.

David Stahler: That's kind of what happens on the roof.

Megan Ellsworth: Exactly. Yeah, no, that makes total sense. And we've all seen those big buildings with the big amounts of snow and they just come falling down, and you do not want to be under that. Or there's signs like beware of ice or beware of snow falling. So talking about that, how can these snow retention devices help building owners and homeowners and metal roof users reduce that liability of snow falling on someone?

David Stahler: So let me take this a little bit backwards since you mentioned about a sign or they have the yellow tape out. Look, a sign or a yellow tape is not the same as snow retention and it's certainly not going to reduce liability because you're pretty much saying, "I know I have a problem, but I'm just going to put the sign or piece of tape up." So think of a snow retention device as a safety net for your roof and for everything and every one below it. It's kind of like a seat belt for your roof.

David Stahler: They keep the snow in place and make sure it doesn't come sliding off in that catastrophic avalanche we just talked about. So instead, Megan, it turns a potential for disaster into a controlled harmless melt. That means your gutters, your architectural features, satellite dishes, landscaping beneath it, cars beneath it, HVAC units stay intact, but more importantly, so do the people and the ones you love or the ones you might not know.

David Stahler: So from a liability standpoint, you're doing the right thing by protecting it. Now, I don't want to sugarcoat things and I also don't want to go the other way and be like Chicken Little, the sky's falling. But snow avalanches from roofs aren't just a property risk. They're real danger, as we said. And every year, unfortunately, people are seriously injured and killed every year worldwide. The number varies, but we do get quite a few injuries and deaths in the United States.

David Stahler: So if you have a slippery roof, we're talking about metal, but if you have a tile membrane or something similar that is slippery, you really have a responsibility to protect yourself and others. And as we said, a caution falling snow sign won't cut it if somebody gets hurt and neither will all the good intentions. Liability for personal injury or worse is no joke. We take that pretty seriously what we do. And at the end of the day, it is a safety issue, right?

Megan Ellsworth: Absolutely. Absolutely. Especially if you have little kids playing in the snow, you want them to be safe, pets, animals, anything like that. So since we've established that you really need to have snow retention, especially if you have a slippery roof, what are some common reasons people hesitate to install snow guards on exposed fastened metal roofs?

David Stahler: Megan, that's a really good question because often in the metal world we often see it on standing seam roofs, but not on exposed fastened. Pardon me. And that's the classic conundrum is and probably in the number one thing we hear is cost. It's too expensive. It's too expensive. Snow guards aren't free, right?

Megan Ellsworth: Right.

David Stahler: But neither is fixing a damaged roof or you're dealing with a lawsuit. And if you hurt somebody, you're going to feel a lot worse anyway. Or paying for liability claims. Plus, what's more costly, an engineered solution or a cheap fix that causes even more problems, whatever that fix might be? So sometimes cheap really isn't cheap at all. It's exactly what it sounds like. It's just a sneaky way of saying, "I'll regret this later." So to me, cost is all relative, right?

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah.

David Stahler: The second reason we get is my roof wasn't that expensive, so why should I invest in snow retention? Because often exposed fastened roofs are a lot less expensive. So why would I want to invest in that? Look, we get it. You didn't build a mansion on the hill, but just because your roof didn't break the bank doesn't mean you want your gutters and other features breaking under snow.

Megan Ellsworth: Absolutely.

David Stahler: You still open yourself up to the same liability regardless of the cost of the roof. So whether your roof costs a little or a lot, it's worth protecting.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah, it so is. And like you said, your gutters too. I actually have this distinct memory from being a child. We had an ice dam in our gutter, and it started melting. And the water seeped through to the inside as it was melting into my room. And so you don't want that to happen either where you're not getting rid of the snow out of your gutters and it's forming into ice, and then it melts come spring and then you have water on the inside of your house. So it's definitely helpful with a bunch of different things, not just the roof too, like you said. That's interesting.

David Stahler: Now, I'll mention this on that because you took it in the direction of, oh, okay, so I had this ice dam. It was acting as snow retention. Everything started to melt and leaked. Remember, leaks don't have anything necessarily to do with snow retention, right?

Megan Ellsworth: Right.

David Stahler: If you have a leak, that's a different issue.

Megan Ellsworth: Right. That's a roof issue.

David Stahler: That equally needs to be addressed. But on that note, another reason, so taking residential property like a house, a lot of people say snow retention isn't cute. It doesn't look nice. There's no curb appeal. But guess what? S-5!'s got you covered, because we make color matching snow retention systems and other systems we make can be aftermarket painted or powder coated. So your snow bars can be functional and look fabulous.

David Stahler: So Megan, let me give you a few more reasons that sometimes we hear. Sometimes on commercial roofs or agricultural and even industrial, we'll hear, well, it's just a storage building or it's just a barn. We don't really have a lot of people or anything doing that. And that's a fair point. It should be considered that not all buildings and structures may need snow retention.

David Stahler: If you don't have any people or equipment or nothing underneath that's going to get damaged, then it may be a needless expense. But if that barn or building or project or whatever it is, how is this something you really care about or has workers going in and out of it, it may be worthwhile to weigh the pros and cons of that.

Megan Ellsworth: Absolutely.

David Stahler: We're not trying to sell something that people don't need, but they should consider everything like even just, okay, I didn't put snow retention on it. It's a storage facility. And I spent money to plow the entrance to the storage facility. And then as soon as I did that and opened up the storage door, all the snow came down. So just think through and consider, and we can help with that.

David Stahler: Any reputable snow retention person can help with that as well. The other thing I hear a lot is climate. We don't really live in an area that gets a lot of snow. So keep in mind that even if you live in an area that doesn't traditionally get a lot of snow like Dallas or Fort Worth, they'll get ice and snow storms every so often. I'm just using that as an example. Or similar climates.

David Stahler: If you've got a metal roof and you have a chance of getting that weather, a little prevention can save you a lot of headaches when the weather takes a turn for the worst. It does not have to occur annually to leave you wishing you had planned ahead. So again, think about that in an area like, just for example, Dallas and Fort Worth. I use that because I've been there a lot.

David Stahler: I've seen a lot of snow retention there, and people who don't have snow retention wish they had. The bottom line is whether it's about protecting people or property or the roof itself, a designed and engineered system is always a smart move. And at S-5!, we make that easy. We have an online calculator that can help you design the perfect snow retention system. And just as a fun fact, we were the first to offer an online roof calculator. Innovator. Trendsetters.

Megan Ellsworth: Ooh! Trendsetter. Influencer.

David Stahler: So anyway, yeah, why take a risk, right? Take the guesswork out of it. Your roof and wallet will both thank you later because it costs a lot of money to fix a roof these days.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah, it does. And your gutters will thank you, and everyone else hanging outside your house will thank you. And I believe Texas just got another snowstorm, so they're happening more often than we want to admit, I think.

David Stahler: You know that's true, Megan.

Megan Ellsworth: What other snow retention systems does S-5! offer?

David Stahler: So S-5! offers systems for just about everything, standing seam metal roofs, exposed fastened metal roofs, R panels and AG panels, corrugated panels. We also have a system for IMP, insulated metal panels, both for standing seam and exposed fastened insulated panels. We have systems that are one bar or two bar and solutions for copper roofs, which often don't get thought about. We offer systems that match the color of the roof, or as I mentioned earlier, they can be aftermarket painted or powder coated.

Megan Ellsworth: Got it. Got it. What are some of those exposed fastened systems that you have?

David Stahler: Yeah, great question. And again, like we're talking about, exposed fastened often gets forgotten about. Pardon me. S-5!, we have a bunch of different options for exposed fastened roofs. One of the great cost-effective, easy to install, do it yourself type of systems we have is our flagship product, which is called ColorGard. And again, that uses a strip from the actual metal roof system for seamless look and that can be done on exposed fastener roofs, corrugated R panels and AG panels.

David Stahler: In 2024, we introduced a snow bracket, which is specifically designed for insulated R panels. It goes into the rib of the roof rather than into structure. It's also compatible with traditional R panels, although it was designed specifically for IMP, but you can use it on a traditional R panel. And that might work well if you don't have decking and it's going to be difficult to find the purlins. So that might be easier for that. We also offer two bar systems for exposed fastened roofs, like our VersaGard system. And again, these can be powder coated aftermarket or painted. We have a full line for folks.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah, a wide array of options for everybody. That's amazing.

David Stahler: We do, especially with the aesthetic part, right?

Megan Ellsworth: Yes.

David Stahler: I mean, I personally like the ColorGard product. If people are in front of their computer, they can Google that and take a look. I think it looks great, and it's easy to install. As I mentioned, we have a calculator. It can be designed specifically for that job and engineered and the whole nine yards.

Megan Ellsworth: That's incredible. And like you said before with curb appeal, it's so important nowadays with resale value and just people want to make their houses look the way they want them to look and be beautiful. That includes the roof and that includes the snow guards.

David Stahler: When it comes exposed fastened, unfortunately, sometimes people do take a cheaper option. They'll use bench sheet metal, which isn't designed or engineered. But on top of that, they take bench sheet metal. They drill through the top of their roof. And you were mentioning about leaks. And then not only do they have a leak because it's not waterproofed properly, but on top of that, they have a lot of damage to their roof trying to do a cheaper solution. And now they just spent a whole lot more money. And we see that happen often.

Megan Ellsworth: So S-5! is definitely the way to go for all sorts of roofs. I love that you mentioned copper. I totally did not think of copper and all sorts of different roof options. Metal roofs are becoming more and more popular amongst wildfire areas, which tend to also get snow in the winter. So if you're in one of those areas like Colorado, California, Nevada, Utah, definitely look up S-5! and make sure that you have all the snow retention that you need to keep you and your family safe. David, where can people find S-5! products to buy for their roofs?

David Stahler: So customers can visit our website, www.s-5.com. Our website on that homepage, they can click on snow retention, view our different products. We also have the calculator on the top of that homepage, and you can click on that, run a calculation. We sell our products through distribution and sign partners both in the metal roofing industry and the solar industries.

David Stahler: And a complete list of customers can be found on our homepage. There is a bright yellow button on the right-hand side how to buy, and they can click on that for a complete list of our partners. But if they need assistance, product assistance, technical support, questions on where to buy, they can just call 888-825-3432 or they can email our support team at support@s-5.com and get all the assistance they need.

Megan Ellsworth: Perfect. Uh, that was perfect. You can also go to MetalCoffeeShop.com and RoofersCoffeeShop.com to learn more. S-5! has directories on both of those sites, and you can learn more, see all their other podcasts they've done and articles and webinars. S-5! really is an amazing company and a huge part of this industry. So thank you, David, for chatting with me. This has been really fun.

David Stahler: Thank you, Megan. Appreciate you having me. And I'll just close with this. There was an article put out by the Metal Construction Association. It's called Metal Roof Design for Cold Climates. It may be on your site as well, I'm not sure, but they can find it on the MCA website or ours. And if people have questions and want to just know the science and facts behind it, that article is a really great, great read to educate yourself as a building or homeowner.

Megan Ellsworth: That's awesome. That's amazing. Yes, everyone, please go check out MCA as well. They're a great association for the metal construction industry. And David, this has been great. I can't thank you enough.

David Stahler: Megan, thank you so much and thank RoofersCoffeeShop for all they do for the metal roofing industry.

Megan Ellsworth: Oh, absolutely. Anytime. And for everyone out there listening, please go to RoofersCoffeeShop.com to learn more and make sure you are subscribed so you don't miss our next episode. And we'll be seeing you next time on Roofing Road Trips.

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