David Phillip and Joe Landmichl - Streamlining the Warranty Process - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with David Phillip and Joe Landmichl of Mule-Hide. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Intro: Welcome to Roofing Road Trips, the podcast that takes you on a thrilling journey across the world of roofing. From fascinating interviews with roofing experts to on-the-road adventures, we'll uncover the stories, innovations and challenges that shape the rooftops over our heads. So fasten your seatbelts and join us as we embark on this exciting roofing road trip.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Hello and welcome to another Roofing Road trips from RoofersCoffeeShop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth and we are here today to talk about one of the most important tools in roofing, what every contractor should be aware of and understand how it works and that is warranties. So we got together with our friends at Mule-Hide and with David Phillip and Joe Landmichl to talk about warranties. Hello and welcome, gentlemen.

David Phillip: Welcome.

Joe Landmichl: Thank you very much for having us today.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I am very excited. Such an important topic. Let's start with some introductions first. David, could you introduce yourself and tell us what you do with Mule-Hide?

David Phillip: David Phillip, I am the Warranty technical Manager, so I basically oversee the design process and the warranty process, the warranty administration process at Mule-Hide. I've been with Mule-Hide just short of 10 years and been in the industry for quite a bit longer. Let's just leave with that.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love it. That is awesome. And Joe, could you introduce yourself and share with what you do?

Joe Landmichl: Yeah, so again, I've been now at Mule-Hide products going on two years. I am in the national training department and I am the Instructional designer, so I know it's a title, like what does that mean? People ask all the time. Basically, I create the materials and the curriculums to do our national trainings at not just our training centers, but all across the country. So all those power points, all those trainings that you see are territory managers out in the field at branches, at contractors, actual home offices, those are all developed here by myself, working with our team to come up with the greatest and best content and they're the ones that use that. So that is what I do here. And I've been in the roofing industry again just two years. I come from nonprofits, but I couldn't have asked for a better industry.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I have to tell you, Joe, that is so true. I actually came from nonprofits about 30 years ago when I started roofing, so I know exactly how that is to come into roofing. It's just such an amazing industry. Well, let's talk a little bit and David, I'd love to start with you. Just why are roofing warranties so important?

David Phillip: Well, one of the important things is that obviously building owners have insurance companies that protect their assets, but when we're dealing with an asset like a roofing warranty, there are times where you want to have additional protection. So this would be like a writer on an insurance policy. You've got the normal insurance through your general carrier, but now you've got another or the manufacturer of the products that's willing to step up and say, Hey, we can keep your roof leak free for a specific period of time. You install our products, you go through our process and we can get you a warranty. The process with that is that you have to have contractors that are, we call them warranty eligible, other contractors call them certified or authorized or there's a number of different terminologies, but it's basically the same type of thing. They've been trained by us or they've been vetted by us in order to provide warranties.

So if you think of the insurance analogy, they're kind of agents that will go out and secure clients. Then we will install the products and then we will do our inspection process. And then after that's successfully done, the premiums paid for, we put a policy in place to protect their roof for a longer period of time and then they can pick up the phone and call us. And if it's not something that would be an insurance claim that falls under our coverage, then they would have that extra protection. So it's an important part to give building owners a peace of mind rather than a contractor putting themselves into the place of a warrantier or a warrenter that it's a much stabler process.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes, and it makes sense. And I think I love too the fact that there's inspections, that it's a real partnership between the contractors and the manufacturers to really provide what that building owner needs is so important. When you are looking at, and Joe, maybe we'll go to you, looking at the history of warranties, roofing contractors, building owners and how they've processed the warranties together, contractor taking care of that, working with manufacturer, talk to us a little bit about that. What's that look like in the past?

Joe Landmichl: Yeah, so actually for the past, I'm going to give it back to David because he has built this new system we're going to talk about, but he also was the guy for the old system. So I'll turn it back to him real quick because I have nobody or person to speak than him.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Perfect. David.

David Phillip: And again, part of my history is I worked with another manufacturer for 11 years as a technical representative going out doing inspections. I had managed the process, but the bottom line is that contractors, in history, they used to fill out a three-page form where you wrote on it real hard and everybody got a copy. You submitted one to the manufacturer, you kept a copy and then one went out to the technical in the field. And as the industry has evolved and as technology has evolved, that's been more streamlined and it's gone more online so that it's easier to follow up projects, you can track things, you can find things in real time.

So going from the process of a paper application that you mailed in with a stamp, all that good stuff and then the inspections were sent out to inspectors by carrier pigeons or people used to think that and then they had to schedule their time and there were stick phones and those kinds of things that would delay the process. So as the industry and technology's evolved, more of the paperwork and things have gone online and many companies use mobile apps on a tablet or a cell phone for the tech reps to complete their inspections. They can take photographs of conditions so contractors can see those types of things. And then they can submit that.

The other thing that's really great about that part of it is that you can standardize the list of things that a tech rep will select from. So the language on the inspection report is not just someone that's saying, "Hey, one thing that I found is that the Northeast and the Southwest have different names for the same product."

So when you get into terminology differences, this allows for additional standardization on the inspection report. So everybody's hearing the same thing and there's less confusion, that you don't have slang terms being thrown around. So if you move a tech rep from one area to another, the slang terminology isn't going to have to follow. It's going to be standard, more professional language that's standardized that you're going to be using on the documents. So when you give them the detail that's wrong, the condition that's existing and the repair to fix it, that's going to be standardized throughout the United States and throughout our inspection process. And that's not just us, that's all manufacturers are going to that model.

So being able to submit the applications, get them reviewed by the design department, get them out to a technical inspector, get the inspection process because there might be a re-inspection, there might be repair photos required, there might be other paperwork that has to be sent in, all of that can be consolidated and made a little bit simpler by having the flow of information a little bit faster.

Joe Landmichl: And to piggyback on that, I also want to talk, 'cause you had asked about, again, not just the history of roofing, but also building owners. How do we process this? And for the most part, when you think about it, a contractor does majority of the processing to make it easier. That's why they won the job, whether it's for you're going up on a big industrial building to fixing the garage of a homeowner, putting any PDM or mod bit on. And so for the most part, the contractor's going to do that. But our new system especially not only allows for the system warranty, so a full-on TPO, but let's talk about that smaller job.

Your smaller contractors who are listening in, they're like, "Well, I do a garage roof and I do mod bit." What do I do there? I don't need a system warranty, I just need material only. Which Mule-Hide offers.
This new system, if they're a warranty-eligible contractor, they can go in and no longer do they have that paper. They're allowed to go in, process it right away, get it into the system. But here's the best part, we understand not everybody's going to be able to get into the new system because maybe they haven't been officially vetted yet through Mule-Hide, but they can go in and also on our website and still submit that paper ballot for a material only, only. So I want to make sure I plug that. But everything else, the system is so sweet, but we help both the building owner and the contractor. So we have both ways and both options are still available in case the homeowner wants to be the one in a smaller case to process a material home.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right, right. That's awesome. That is great. So you said something there, Joe, you said warranty-eligible. What is that

David Phillip: Warranty-eligibility, Joe keeps deferring to me, warranty-eligibility is the process in which Mule-Hide and other manufacturers make a... It's a contract. Basically they're saying that they're going to use our products, they're going to install the project within our specifications, they're going to follow all the rules and as a result we are willing to partner with them and back that roofing system, that Mule-Hide is willing to, going back to the insurance analogy, we're willing to write a policy on it. So in order to have that, we want to make sure that the people that are doing that are of the highest quality and understand the process and can produce a roof that will be warrantable for a long period of time. So as a result, there's a process that a contractor would go with go through, they would either contract their local distributor to get ahold of our territory manager or our sales rep and then they would walk through that process.

We'd look at some projects, we'd get them into trainings. We do some of the work that will allow them to be that quality-minded contractor, and then there's a piece of paper that they sign that says, Mule-Hide's going to do certain things, we're going to do certain things. And then they're able to submit and successfully receive system warranties which provide leak-free protection for the building owners. So it's a level of commitment. The first level is they can be what we call non-participating or just a warranty material-only warranty contractor. That's kind of the baby steps when you get into the system and you start doing projects. You may not need, like Joe said, you may not need that full coverage warranty. So you can get that first level by just turning in applications and then you get entered into our system.

And then when it comes time where you've grown enough and you start having to do these commercial projects that need the system warranties or you get into government or school work or whatever, where it's a requirement that happens that we can allow the contractor to grow with us and we grow with them and get them moved from point A to point B to point C and get them as a more viable larger contractor. Not that little guys are bad, it's just they may have their needs there that are higher that they need those types of warranties. So as they grow, we can grow with them.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's great. That is great. So when we're really looking at that, and Joe, I'm going to go back to you because you had really talked with such passion about this new software. As you guys were putting all this together, you were working together to make it happen. What were some of the pain points for contractors that you were really or some of the challenges that you tried to solve for them with this technology?

Joe Landmichl: Yeah, so here's the big thing. So when we developed this, and again, this has been a long process. This has been over three years in the making. Remember contractors, those who are in the industry, they're the number one biggest part of the industry. We listen to the contractors, what are the issues that's happening? And so what we discovered is as we went through our old process, as we talked to people about other companies that they've worked with, what were the things, we did a lot of that data research and learned what needed to be fixed.

So for instance, you're a contractor, you log onto the site, you want to know, okay, what do I need to do? I just finished installing my project, but I have no idea what I got to do next. The best part about our system is we take that paint out. We literally make it so simple that when you first log onto that page, we have a subset of categories that you're going to see, needing inspection, needing completion date. You got to pay your invoice. Literally to make it so simple, we are now keeping our contractors in the loop of every step that that application is. So let's say, Heidi, you're contractor and you're like, Hey, I am right now working on this roofing project and I want to know where I sit.

You could literally hit the all projects button, go in there and now see the status of your application. We are being so transparent with this new system it is mind-blowing because not everybody's always that transparent. And that's one of the things we heard from our contractors, which was a pain point, where is my application? Where do I sit? I mean imagine if you're even applying for a home loan. Banks don't even do that to tell you where you sit. And that's the biggest pain point that we have now gotten rid of where you are now able to see where it is, not just that, but we provide you with what this next steps are.

So let's say that you are sitting there and needing repair photos to be put on. We literally provide the guidance in one to six steps. What do you need to do next to move that application further? So as David likes to say, now you're not waiting on us, we're waiting on you. So that was some of the biggest things that we did is to move things faster. And that was another thing was sometimes after an inspection, it could take up to five to 10 days before an inspection came in. That's no longer the case. So we really listened to our contractors when we built this system and when we launched this system, and again, we're still there all a hundred percent across the way. One of the other things that people said too is I need an answer. That's the best part. With Mule-Hide, you can call your territory manager who have all been trained now on this system, weeks, went through weeks of training on this system.

So you can either get them to get rid of that pain point or you can call our 800 number and speak to somebody and they'll get... Or you can leave a message and we'll get back to them right away because we want to make sure we're also keeping that people-centricness. So those were the big points that we listened and we're here for you. So again, I know it's a long answer-

Heidi J. Ellsworth: No, it's great.

Joe Landmichl: ... but we definitely make sure to get rid of those pain points, 'cause again, the contractors is who our main focus is here.

David Phillip: Well, and the other thing that kind of piggybacks on that is that being transparent is great. The other part of the problem is, it is a new contractor or a smaller contractor that's just starting to break into this paperwork process. What we've done is we've taken the application component and we basically have turned it into, I liken it to a TurboTax interview where you put your information in, here's where I live, here's how much I make, which is kind like what kind of warranty do I want? I've got this product, I've got this component, I've got these things. I ultimately want to get to this point in the warranty process where I can, let's say we're going to do a twenty-year warranty. There's certain rules that apply to getting a twenty-year warranty.

So as the system is going and processing their application, they're telling us up front what their needs are. I've got this kind of material, this kind of warranty that I want to do this kind of a deck that I'm using it on and I've got these components that I'm trying to incorporate. What we'll do is as you walk through process, we've built almost 3 million rules that follow all of our rules that then take that process and you give me the information upfront, you'll get correct answers all the way through the application. Now that can lead to frustration because you're trying to do something that isn't supposed to be done, but if you're smart enough and one of the things that Joe's been a very large proponent of is getting the warranty application process done earlier in the process. Don't wait till you're finished with the job. Do it while you're bidding the job. Then you say, I've got this set of criteria, I want to put it into the system and verify that I can give the owner the warranty that they're looking for with the stuff that we've got to work with.

Because it's like a chef getting out all the ingredients and finding out you're missing that one component and you can't make the dish that you want. So in order to make it a process that goes smoother, if they do this upfront, they'll know that they'll have the project registered, number one and secondarily, they'll know that they can get that warranty that they're... Because that's going to end up with the golden handshake at the end of the project. I hand you the warranty, you give me my pot of gold that I just earned.

So in order to make that a little bit smoother and a little bit nicer transition, we've front-end loaded the system so that it isn't just put all of your stuff into the system. Tell me what insulation you use, tell me how you fastened it, tell me what kind of deck you have. And oh, by the way, in three to five days we'll review your project and tell you whether you can qualify for a warranty. So if you're following what we call the happy path through, you can put all that information in, it will vet the job and it'll be ready so that you can order your materials almost off the application. You know what you have to get, what you have to use.

All you have to do is now add the quantities and then you can have your order, but you'll know all the pieces that you need for the most part to get that job going and it'll make it simpler in that process for contractors that have been doing this for a number of years, they'll find that it's going to be a smoother process and it'll be invaluable for the smaller contractors that are trying to grow that they can kind of have a check and balance so that they don't get to the end of the job and find out they're getting disappointed because they can't do what they want to do. They're looking for a warranty that they just didn't qualify for.

Joe Landmichl: And the best part is not just to make sure you qualify, but especially for your smaller guys, all of a sudden you're like, Hey, I'm ready to bid and I'm going to use wood Fiberboard just as an example, but I'm using AeroWeb all across the way because that's the adhesive I prefer my guys to use. Well, guess what? That doesn't meet spec. And if you're a newer guy and you're all of a sudden like, oh, I can't believe that I missed that, the system's going to flag you. So now you're not going in and bidding and finding out down the road I made a costly mistake because I underbid and now I'm actually eating into my profit line. So that's the best part of the system. Not only are you getting an application, but it's really helping those new guys that are out there and ladies out there to make sure that, again, our contractors, we are setting you up for success.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love that. I love that and I love how you're talking about doing it early in that process before you bid it so you know everything and it's there. And then it keeps a record for you also, so you're ready to go. That is awesome. So okay, you've just launched the warranty portal. Talk to us a little bit about how that's going. What are you seeing so far and what's some of the feedback from contractors?

Joe Landmichl: So I'll start off first on that and basically when we launched, we made sure to have everything ready. We had a launch team that only was our territory managers all ready to go and had their materials, but we also had basically a mini call center set up where we had multiple departments step up to take phone calls to help guide people through. Here's the best part, we didn't get a lot of calls because of how simple the system is to walk you through everything. But the calls that we have gotten and the feed feedback that we are getting is all positive. They really love that they can go in.

Now, yes, it threw some people off at first like, wait a minute here, it's telling me this and I want this. And so it's that learning curve we just spoke about, but they are loving the ability of going in it telling you what you exactly need. It's quick, it's easy to use, it's making sure you're not missing any step. But we have been getting huge positive responses back with just the ease of use of this system. And I'll turn it over to David because he's fielded quite a bit of calls as well and what are you hearing?

David Phillip: Yeah, and that's part of it. We've got a handful of contractors that are old school guys that are used to the paper applications. They still fill them out by hand. It looks like a draftsman wrote in big perfect uppercase letters on the applications. They're neat is a pin and they're used to submitting them via... They print out the form, they fill it in, they send it in and even they are looking at this and saying, it's just so much simpler. It's easier. It takes away some of the pain that I've got. And oh, by the way, I can look at the dashboard on the, we have a dashboard basically is what we've got and that just basically says until I'm required to do something on the project, it's in my all projects tab.

But then if I have to do something, I have to sign an inspection report, send in repair photos in that process, if I have to pay the invoice, I mean you go there, you click the button, it takes you to a hot link to PayPal, which is our vehicle to pay for warranties. They type in their credit card number or use their PayPal account, check out like a guest and within 30 seconds, 45 seconds, it's the transaction's complete.

Our inspectors that are sending in inspection reports, we've now got a standardized format that the contractors are really appreciating and the transmission of the material and the information is 15 to 20 seconds to upload an inspection report into the system. We take a quick peek at it and it gets emailed and shared with the contractor on his portal so they can print a copy, they can have an email copy. Everybody is just very, very happy because it's just simpler. We've taken one of the biggest pain points for a contractor is walking through this process and we've taken away so many of the pain points and all of the feedback that we've gotten has been positive. It's like, I didn't realize I could do this. And it's like, oh, I can do that. So to do this, I just have to go to this one sub-page and click a button and that process is complete. It's been good. It's been very positive.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It's very exciting.

Joe Landmichl: The other thing if I can say is we've talked about this whole processing and that of course is a big chunk, but what happens to that contractor that gets a call? And I took one of those calls this week and says, Hey, they just moved, the building owner just moved and they lost the warranty that we gave them. How do I get access to that? And I literally says, "Okay, well you're just going to click projects." They were flabbergasted that all of their warranties, they can now pull up those documents going back from past projects, which again may seem like what you would think that's there, but that's the best part is not only is this processing, you've got data records now for yourself as a company owner and as a contractor to go back and you get that call, you don't have to be, again, waiting on Mule-Hide now. You have control. You are in the driver's seat. You can go back. Some of our warranties that are in the system are over 30 years old and they're in the new system.

So again, you can go back and pull those data records if you need it and again, just helps you as a contractor continuing to build your base in the community as well.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: What an extraordinary tool to be able to have, to be able to go back. And of course I'm thinking it, I'm like not only are they going to have all those warranties if they need them for their building owners or they need them, but also that history and then being able to make sure you're going back to those customers when the warranty is complete, making sure you're having that relationship and it's all right there. It becomes your prospect list in a way.

Joe Landmichl: Oh no, exactly. Again, that's the best part is we have built this with the contractor in mind. This is a very contractor-centric operation. And it's funny because we had a training that David did out in California, and I was not able to go at the time I ended up getting covid, but one of the slides we put in there is we tied in with California, who's known for California, especially in Anaheim, but Disney. Disney said The park will never be done, it'll never be built, but here's the best part. David went ahead and took that quote and says, the system will never be done. It will always keep growing because the contractors will keep growing and we want to help give them the best tool, be the best in the industry. So this system is not only phenomenal now. Imagine what it's going to be in two, three years because we are going to keep updating it and we're going to keep listening to our contractors.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Well, I just think about all the work of putting all of the warranties you have overall are in there. I mean that's huge amounts of work and such a jewel for contractors as a resource. That's amazing.

Okay, so I like that quote. It's going to continue to grow and it's going to do this. What are some of the future things that you have, new initiatives that you're still working on around this?

David Phillip: Just making it. There's been a lot of things that we wanted to put into it, but we obviously found out that we've got to have a launch date. So you've got to get the system on the street, you got to get it up and functional and then you're going to, apple does it all the time, Right? The bug fixes and system enhancements are going to be coming and completed. There's some stuff that is been on our list for different things, so I'd love to say what some of them are, but anticipation is part of the process too.

Joe Landmichl: And remember, hey, we're in a presidential race. We're true politicians here. We can give you the carrot, but we can't give you the exact answers now because here's the thing is we're going to be constantly listening to our contractors and as we see things and our territory managers hear it, we're going to be taking that feedback and you know what? We're going to get it done. So that's the best part is the system will keep growing and as we see enhancements or we hear about them or somebody even has just a weird idea like, "Hey, can this happen?" Well, let's see. And that's going to be the best part is the future is the sky is literally not even the limit. We're going into space.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That is awesome. Wow, that is so cool.

David Phillip: Another part of it is that when you're listening to a contractor base, what we think is important may not be what they think is important. So we're taking this little bit of time while the system is fresh and new to listen to that feedback. And if we have to reprioritize some of the things that we had wanted to bring out, that will get adjusted and will create the different to-do list, because there's a series of things that we figured that would... And it's kind of, we want kind of a thing versus what the contractor needs. So obviously you're going to have to listen and be sensitive to that and make sure that when we do hear something that we didn't think was going to be an issue, we're going to shift gears and make that the priority then.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's great.

David Phillip: So we're going to let a little bit of dust settle and then we got our tool belt on, we're ready to get back at it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Contractor driven. I love it. Contractor driven technology. That is excellent. Okay, so for all those contractors out there that are listening right now, how can they get involved and start using your new warranty portal?

David Phillip: If you're a warranty eligible contractor, a Mule-Hide warranty eligible contractor, you've already gotten a reset password to get into the system. As with any different software launch, you have to just go in and reset your password. That will give you access to the system and get in there and kick around and play. If you are not yet a warranty eligible contractor, you can get a hold of your meal hide territory manager and they will work on establishing that warranty eligibility process for you. And then obviously you'll have access to the system once that relationship has been finalized. And then for material only contractors, our front facing website has paper applications or PDF applications that they can download complete and email in. So there's a great number of ways to get into the system and everybody that has had a relationship with us already has access or will have access very, very soon.

Joe Landmichl: And for those contractors listening and you're like, "Hey, I'm really liking what I'm hearing about Mule-Hide," the best part is again, not only is this website, but Mule-Hide is so contractor-focused that if you don't know your territory manager and you want to see who it is, literally go to Www.mulehide.com, up in the right corner, you're going to see Find My Rep. You put in your zip code and boom, you not only know the name, but you have the phone number to call and the email and you can get ahold of them and say, "Hey, what are my options?" Because again, we have over 40 territory managers throughout this country to serve you. So if you want to get into this new system and you want to see the qualifications are to become an eligible contractor with Mule-Hide, again, just go ahead and reach out to your tech rep and you can find them through mulehide.com.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's great. That is great. Gentlemen, thank you so much. This has been so informative and progressive. I'm just so excited. And I have to tell you, I love your passion. And for everyone who's listening right here, if you couldn't hear it, you can definitely see it. But I am hearing it and seeing it, and the passion for this really shows, it shows how important it is to help your contractors. So thank you so much for being on Roofing Road Trips today.

Joe Landmichl: Thank you for having us.

David Phillip: Thanks for having us.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And thank you all for listening. Please check out the Mule-Hide directory on RoofersCoffeeShop. You can get all your information there. You can get to the website. You can see more about this warranty portal. And please check out all of our podcasts under our read, listen, watch section of podcasts. Or on your favorite podcast channel, please subscribe and set those notifications so you don't miss a single episode. We'll be seeing you next time on Roofing Road trips.

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