Darci Kunard – Creating a Residential Service Program - PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of an live interview with Darci Kunard with Franklin International and Titebond. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Speaker 1:
Welcome to Roofing Road Trips with Heidi, explore the roofing industry through the eyes of a longterm professional within the trade. Listen for insights, interviews, and exciting news in the roofing industry today.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Hello. Welcome to another roofing road trip. This is Heidi Ellsworth with RoofersCoffeeShop and I'm on the road today, virtually in Denver, because in Denver is where my dear friend Darci Kunard with Franklin International and Titebond, lives, but works nationally, really helping contractors understand how to grow their business using the right products. So Darci, welcome to the show.

Darci Kunard:
Thanks Heidi. Thanks so much for having me. That's a great introduction.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Well, you know what? This isn't our first time, we've been together on this show a couple of times, and I just love our conversations.

Darci Kunard:
That is true. I very much enjoyed them as well.

Heidi Ellsworth:
It is so good. So we're going to talk today a little bit about finding the right products to expand your service program. And I am so interested in residential service programs. Because I don't think enough contractors are taking advantage of this, to be able to stay in touch with their customers, use that as a source of referrals and just helping homeowners who might need yearly maintenance. What are you hearing about service programs like that for the residential market?

Darci Kunard:
So just some things that I've seen with some contractors that I regularly touch base with, is that they are really stepping up their game for their top 20% of their customers. And you know the typical 80-20 rule.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yep.

Darci Kunard:
You're used to hearing that, but basically they're focusing on those top 20% of their customers because they're the long-term customers. And they know that if they're going to do these maintenance programs with these customers, that they are going to not only make them happy, they're also going to get the best advertising possible, which is that word of mouth referral. And especially like in our neighborhood, you know who the good guys are and pretty much in demand. So it's very nice I think for them to be that peace of mind for their top customers, one of my really good neighbors, or close neighbors, she had a leaking skylight and it's not your typical skylight, like it opens and it's supposed to be great for fresh air and all that good stuff.
So, of course she calls her roofing guy who she hasn't seen in five years and gets, say disconnected a number. So then it becomes this panic and it's a Facebook post. You know how it goes, who can I have help? And so one of favorite people responded to that post and just let her know. He's like, "I'll come, I'll look at it and no charge. I'll give you an estimate." And his time is money.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Darci Kunard:
But he knew that if he extended that and people all jumped on there and said, Oh my gosh, Rob is the best. He's great at this. He'll tackle it. So not only did he go over there, he fixed it right away, and showed her like, the plastic seal is broken and we'll just use some sealants on that and it will be fixed. And so she was really surprised that not only could he fix it quickly, he didn't charge her very much. She of course paid him extra, and then now hopefully she's a raving fan of his and will become a lasting customer. He did mention, and he does this, I think it's amazing. And it's twice a year, he'll come to your house, get up on your roof. And he will just do a cursory look around, no charge, which I know again, time is money.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Darci Kunard:
And he may [inaudible 00:04:02], he may not. There's been times he's cleaned up people's gutters for like 50 bucks, but it's just that kind of nice circular touch point with your regular customers. So they know that you're really going to take care of them. You're not trying to get a lot of money out of them right away, but it is a long-term relationship.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Well, and we're hearing across the country right now, all the contractors are seeing backlogs. And so people are in search of good contractors. I can look at it too, from the other side of the contractors are getting all these phone calls. They don't always know if these are good customers.

Darci Kunard:
Right.

Heidi Ellsworth:
But when you have a service and maintenance and you're getting those referrals most of the time, that means it's going to be good customers for your business.

Darci Kunard:
Absolutely. Well, and I know there's some people out there and for the good or the bad of it, they want five to seven quotes on a roof repair. And that to me is just insane. So that's probably not the customer that you're looking for when do you want to develop your residential maintenance program. You want to have someone who's reasonable, who knows that you're being fair with your prices and you're also being honest.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yes.

Darci Kunard:
I always think of home maintenance as like a dental checkup. You need it every six months, maybe every year, but I would think every six months, because things happen. In Denver, we get crazy weather as you know, you've got to experience that.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Darci Kunard:
You might have a small roof leak, you might have some problems with your gutters getting clogged a vent that is not working. You never know. So it's just kind of a nice touch base, make sure that your house is in working order.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. And as we talk about contractors adding this of service, I'm thinking of your friend, Rob, I love that, having the right product. And that's one of the things, with Titebond and the ultimate PVC trim, adhesive sealants, everything, all the products you do, so much of this service of getting up on the roof and looking things can be fixed quickly like that skylight.

Darci Kunard:
Yes. Yeah, it was just a broken seal. And it wasn't, I mean, unfortunately she had a little bit of drywall damage, which that is something that roofing contractors can look into.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Darci Kunard:
Maybe you don't dry wall yourself, maybe you sub it out to someone you know and trust, but that homeowner's going to need both interior and exterior repair when you have a leak like that.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And that's such a good point Darci, because you could bring up, I'm really putting together a referral program amongst the other trades. So if you have a service and maintenance program where you're going out to your customer's homes twice a year, you may see other things. And by being that resource to the homeowner and referring people you trust, other trades that you trust again, that starts building your reputation and it's great marketing.

Darci Kunard:
Absolutely. And if you're known as kind of that connector and hub of knowledge, I just think that, that's so powerful, especially in a community where not only you work, but you maybe you live. Like my contractor, Fred Rob.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Darci Kunard:
I mean, he lives here. He knows our challenges. We trust him, it's just kind of a nice relationship.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. And if as contractors, the more people that can get like full neighborhoods where people are talking about them and really recommending and stuff, that's less driving too.

Darci Kunard:
Absolutely.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I mean, there's just so much positives.

Darci Kunard:
Yeah. Especially now with gas prices going up and potential gas shortages. I mean if you can take care of seven houses in a couple block radius, that's nice.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. And great extra business, a great way to grow your business. So let's talk a little bit about that because I know in the Titebond line, there is it's for the whole house, the whole exterior, when we're talking about needing different sealants and caulkings for doors, windows siding. So what are you seeing with contractors out there who maybe have this on service and maintenance program, and they've actually expanded already, or thinking about expanding to the full exterior, like maybe adding siding or windows because they're there all the time so they can start seeing things. What are you seeing there?

Darci Kunard:
So obviously, as I've mentioned, drywall is probably the number one concern when you have a leak, but siding as well, because siding cracks, there can be issues where the sealant hasn't been adhering, the butt joint has expanded to a point where it's not repairable anymore. There's just little repairs that you can easily make. Same with windows. How many times have you caulked your windows? Probably not often enough, right?

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right.

Darci Kunard:
Especially when it's exposed to like ask them the Colorado sun, but sealant breaks down very quickly over time. Same with doors. We also see some stuff with installation in attics, let's say I start repairing the roof. There might be a leak in the attic. And then they might go in and say, Oh, they're not properly insulated. And that's money that you're going to save the homeowner year after year when they're more energy efficient. So we've seen a lot with that as well as power washing, which I know seems kind of great now in the spring.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Darci Kunard:
You've got deck fences and even your siding, a lot of homeowners just don't have the wherewithal or the time or the equipment to be able to keep up with their home maintenance.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. So much opportunity. And that opportunity to really hone in on the customer's needs and in a smaller location. So, but even if you're a small contractor or maybe a one or two person, or if you have two or three crews, this works both ways.

Darci Kunard:
Absolutely. And it's nice to be able, I think for contractors to be able to bring some new ideas to their customers. Something that they may not have thought of previously, like what we're seeing with the PVC trim is that people don't know that it's out there. They think that they're stuck with something like wood, which will rot over time. That needs a lot of maintenance and repair, where with PVC trim, super easy to install and use. And yes, it's a little bit more expensive at the outset, but you're not going to be maintaining it year after year.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right. It makes so much sense. I have to just bring this up so we can think about it, but I mean, it can be even things like Christmas lights, right?

Darci Kunard:
Absolutely.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Putting Christmas lights on.

Darci Kunard:
Yes. That's totally true. Yeah. During this whole pandemic, we have a local restaurant that the owners were on our neighborhood and they were unable to stay open obviously due to our restrictions. So they wanted to keep their employees working. So they offered services such as snow removal, just leaf pickup. They didn't focus [inaudible 00:11:32]. I had them at my house. Right now they're doing some fence repair, which I think is just, it's amazing because their business still hasn't come back to what it should be, but it's just kind of a nice way to get some stuff done in the neighborhood.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I'm telling you, that's smart. That is a smart business person who can say, I want to keep my employees and I want to keep them happy. Let's do something different until we can get back to creating great food. I love it. And that's really where every, I would say roofing contractors who are looking to expand and take their business, differentiate it. This is just such an opportunity. We work with one of our RCS influencers, Wendy Marvin, out on Vancouver, she went into a whole home solutions. I mean, so they do the roof and exterior, but they also do remodels inside.

Darci Kunard:
Wow.

Heidi Ellsworth:
So they are, and they have this full concept of take care of the customer, whatever they need on their home. And they are seeing huge success, huge backlog. So as you're looking at some of these contractors, Darci I'm just wondering, I can totally see you as a resource for them to kind of hear what's happening with other contractors, but also what products like they should have in the back of their truck to be able to do all these multiple of repairs. Talk about that a little bit.

Darci Kunard:
Okay. Sure. Yeah. I too agree with you what Wendy's doing with the service attitude. I think if you see, yourself as offering more of a service than trying to sell something, it's just cements you more in the minds of the homeowners.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Darci Kunard:
Talking about products, we have several things that are multipurpose. You can use indoor or outdoor, with things that you can use, like sealants that are all weather underwater, cold, hot doesn't matter, wet or dry, that's our weather master line. So it's just kind of nice to have, a do it all product in your car or your truck. And then the PVC trim, which we've talked about a couple of times that is an adhesive and a sealant. So it's a two in one product. You don't have to have multiple items in your truck, you could just have one thing. So if you're updating fascia or soffits, outdoor ceilings, those are very popular with the bigger decks right now. Any type of railing on that deck, that's just something that you could easily repair with all in one product.

Heidi Ellsworth:
You really making me think too, because, and I love how you use examples of your neighborhood. As you know, RoofersCoffeeShop we just launched askaroofer, which is a website for homeowners and building owners to ask roofing professionals like yourself questions and to do it. And so one of the things I would love you to kind of talk about, is if we were talking to homeowners or building owners out there, what should they be asking of their contractors? How should they bring up this topic?

Darci Kunard:
So I would just talk to them about how long they've been in the area. I think that would be really important to know. Are they new? How long they'd been in the business? If they have any customers that they could talk to, just to make sure are they on the up and up. We say, when we get hail storms here in Colorado, I mean, there's I don't know how many out of state plates then they're roaming around the neighborhood trying to get some business, which is an interesting way to get business, but, are they reputable? Are they going to take your deposit never come back, you don't know.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right.

Darci Kunard:
And then I would talk to them about what kind of products they use and why. And if they say, "I use this product, it's a little bit more expensive, but this is why I use it." Hey, I would be much more apt to hire them than someone who says, "I buy the cheapest stuff I can, and I never use the same brand. It's just kind of whatever's on sale." I mean, you can tell the difference and probably in the quality of their work as well.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Well, and also I think by asking, do they offer a service program, so if contractors are hearing homeowners ask, and then we already know is happening on the commercial side, building owners are asking for service and maintenance programs all the time. But for a homeowner, if you ask the contractor, if they offer a service and maintenance program, so that you'll see them twice a year, that is going to actually cut out the people who maybe just are in that area for a couple of weeks or a couple months to work a storm. But you're going to get the local contractors who are going to be there for you, twice a year, once a year, whatever you need and be able to look at the rest of your property too.

Darci Kunard:
Absolutely. And we have a man in our neighborhood, he's a firefighter, but he does all of the sprinkler maintenance because in the winter territory is like where we live, you need to blow out your sprinklers and then we have to turn them back on and then he'll do a little repairs, but it's just kind of a cool service that he offers in addition to his regular job.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. I love that. I love that. So I want to go back and touch on what you just said a minute ago about really how do contractors talk about premium products? So when we're talking about the ultimate PVC trim adhesive and sealant, some people may say, that's just a small part of it, but really it's the part that waterproofs, it's the part that keeps the water out. And so how can contractors talk about that to homeowners, to really kind of help them understand and also to differentiate them in the eyes of that homeowner?

Darci Kunard:
Yeah. I mean, I would just talk about, the importance of sealants and good sealants. People don't know that there's differences out there. I mean, I've seen, this is honest to God happened just a couple of days ago in Oklahoma. A very close friend of mine called me and said, "I don't know what's happening everything's leaking." And someone had used a very cheap silicone that didn't have a UV inhibitor in it to install the windows.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow.

Darci Kunard:
So they got the torrential rainstorm, all the windows are leaking. So of course I know a contractor in the area and I said, "I'll get Chris to pop over there, don't worry about it." And he sent me pictures and the silicone had literally was just degrading and was all kind of black and gross that. It was just something that was just the wrong product for the job.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Darci Kunard:
I don't know how much she spent on the windows, probably I'm guessing over $20,000, but it was just a cheap job. They just kind of grabbed whatever they could, I guess. So, I gave him some tips of what he could pick up really quickly. Of course, there's some product shortages, as we all know out there.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right.

Darci Kunard:
Several ideas of products he could pick up, he got what he needed and he was able to fix her windows during, when it was still kind of raining and damp. And but, those of us have used silicone and we sell silicone. So I'm not bashing it at all, but it is a difficult product to not only remove, but also make sure that when you're putting it on something different, probably a better product that it's going to actually adhere to the surface because you've got to remove all that residue.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right. And if he was doing it in the rain, or at least even a damp environment.

Darci Kunard:
Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth:
That's difficult.

Darci Kunard:
Very difficult and it it's hard. So there was parts of the house he had to tarp off and come back and the next day. I mean, it was definitely a challenge, but he was up for it because everything's leaking in your house. You've got to probably stop it first at all costs.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I've been there with water buckets underneath my windows going, what are we going to do? We need it the right way. So really using some of these kinds of stories and having that conversation with homeowners ahead of time. I mean we don't want to work on fear, but if people don't realize that if the sealant or caulking is not right, that it's going to create so much more damage.

Darci Kunard:
Absolutely.

Heidi Ellsworth:
We really need to understand that.

Darci Kunard:
Absolutely well, and her biggest challenge was she couldn't get the window installer to even call her back. And she called me just like, "Hey, do you know anyone?" And of course, I know a lot of people, so was like, "I actually know somebody who can come get you today, hopefully."

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow.

Darci Kunard:
Start working now.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow. And I think that kind of goes right back to our overall topic of roofing contractors, creating these residential service programs.

Darci Kunard:
Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Because then no matter what it is that homeowner's going to think of you. And it's going to be like, okay, my windows are leaking, but I know Chris is awesome, even though he inspects my roof twice a year, I know they'll come out. I know they'll take care of me. And it creates an analysis. Then you might have this opportunity to get into other exterior products like we talked about.

Darci Kunard:
Absolutely. Well, and it's all about making sure that your customer feels that they have a peace of mind when they call you. Whether you can do it or not. You can maybe refer them to someone who can do it. You can give them some advice, say that you can't get there today, but they can go to the shop down the street and grab a supply. Or you can just tell them maybe they could do something to mitigate until you can get there.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. I think this is such a great opportunity for contractors and I think it's a great opportunity for homeowners to ask for it and ask for these types of things that are out there. And if a contractor can come in and say, "Yeah, I offer that," then all of a sudden your business is differentiated and the whole idea is to make price, not the topic or not the issue.

Darci Kunard:
Absolutely. And I couldn't agree more on that as you know, I always say never sell on price, always sell on service.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right. Well, so I know you've been just here at the end, I definitely want you to share, you've had some new launches of product and we were just talking about this. You've also come up with kind of a cheat sheet during this material shortage time of how to, if you can't get one product, here's some suggestions for other products, so you can keep business going. Can you talk a little bit about how that's going?

Darci Kunard:
Sure. As I mentioned earlier, there are some raw material shortages out there in the adhesives and sealants industry. I know other building materials as well. I've seen, lumber taking it up to 15 weeks to get delivered in some places. So there are challenges and whether, it's an alternative product, or maybe you look at something else to do in the meantime, or pre-planning.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Darci Kunard:
Like, as an example, I'm remodeling a bathroom in my house and we have not done any demo, even though I love demolition. We're waiting until everything gets in. And there's this tile that I ordered and it's taking eight months to get this tile, but I'm like, this is what I want. So, and I'm willing to wait for that. So it's just kind of maybe setting the expectations up front and not saying, Oh yeah, I can get to that in four weeks, but not having the materials with you, I would just be very realistic to customers and set the expectation that, there are some shortages and this is what we're doing to manage that right now. And then this is when we can do your project, and showing that you're doing all the pre-planning upfront. Because I think the worst thing, and this just happened to a good friend of mine in New York where she had her kitchen demoed and they did everything with the cabinets. Everything was fine. The caulk was great, everything. And they went to put some flooring down and she couldn't find any tile adhesive.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Oh.

Darci Kunard:
And so it's like a five week wait.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow.

Darci Kunard:
So she has no [inaudible 00:24:09] in the kitchen, which is crazy.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. And some things, you do just have to wait for other things you can kind of look for alternatives. Right?

Darci Kunard:
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, right. Like what are you going to do if there's lumber missing?

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right.

Darci Kunard:
You end up going to maybe a vinyl or something. I don't know what else you're going to do, so.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, I know. And one of the things that I think in having these really for the roofing contractors, having these great conversations with your vendors, with your manufacturers, because Franklin tends to make a lot of its own raw materials, right? So you have a lot of things in stock that maybe other folks who don't.

Darci Kunard:
Absolutely. And we do supply raw materials to other partners in the industry. Obviously we want to maintain our own products first, but it is nice to be able to be a single source supplier and be able to make our own materials still. And be able to fill product and ship product, which is kind of a good thing right now.

Heidi Ellsworth:
It is. And I really recommend not only talking to really, as everybody's talking about right now, the material shortage, not just talking, be sure to talk to your distributors and your manufacturers, but beyond that, as contractors, as you were looking to kind of diversify your company, if you're looking to add more exterior installations, if you're looking to create this service program, I really believe that talking to manufacturers and talking to your reps and talking to your distributors is a great way to start hearing how to do it. What are some of the pitfalls and also get names of other contractors who have done this, who maybe are outside of your competitive area, who might share some tips and tricks with you too. And I know you do that all the time Darci.

Darci Kunard:
Yes. I love to do that. And I mean, I talk about it in my social media. Like obviously I do a lot of extracurricular events with my dogs and people just know me that I will help them. Even if it's just advice, even if it's not our products. I have something that I can share and I hope that that knowledge is helpful.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And that is how you keep all your customers. That is ultimate customer service.

Darci Kunard:
That is true. Yeah, even if its not you, right?

Heidi Ellsworth:
That's right. We love to network we to connect people.

Darci Kunard:
Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And there's nothing better than seeing people come together and the professionalism, the respect of the industry continuing to grow, roofing respect.

Darci Kunard:
Absolutely.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I love it. Well, Darci as always, I learned a lot. I hope everybody listening has learned a lot and I just love these conversations. Thank you so much for being here and sharing your wisdom.

Darci Kunard:
Thank you for having me Heidi. Really appreciate it.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Thank you. And to everybody out there listening, please these podcasts, subscribe so you catch every single one. This is Darci's third podcast with us. She is a wealth of knowledge. So I'd recommend as always going to the Franklin International and type on directory on RoofersCoffeeShop, where you can see all this great information, listen to all the podcasts, but also under Read, Listen, Watch on our on RoofersCoffeeShop, you can find all of our podcasts are roofing road trips and subscribe on your favorite podcast channel. Thank you so much for being here. We'll see you next time from the road. Thanks.

Speaker 1:
Make sure to subscribe to our channel and leave a review. Thanks for listening. This has been Roofing Road Trips with Heidi from the rooferscoffeeshop.com.