Dan Clancy - Moisture Control: What you Need to Know - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Dan Clancy of VaproShield. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

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Karen Edwards: Hello and welcome to another episode of Roofing Road Trips. I'm your host, Karen Edwards. Today we are going to talk about the challenges of controlling moisture in roofing assemblies. We are being joined by the experts from VaproShield, or I should say expert, Dan Clancy. Welcome.

Dan Clancy: Thank you. Great to be here.

Karen Edwards: Yeah. So before we dive in, why don't you just introduce yourself and tell our listeners a little bit about you and your background?

Dan Clancy: Yeah. Well, first and foremost, that word is used a lot, but expert and I just cringe, oh, I don't want to be referred to as an expert. I know a little bit about what I'm talking about and we'll have a real good conversation today. But yeah, super-excited to be here. Dan Clancy. I've been with VaproShield now close to 10 years. I currently reside down in the Carolinas. I oversee the business for the East Coast, so Maine to Florida. I'm originally from New York, New York City, born and raised. I've been down in the Carolinas about 20 years now. But, in all my travels I've had a couple of different jobs, lots of different responsibilities. But with where I'm currently at with VaproShield, it's really enjoyable. I really enjoy waking up in the morning and going to work. Like I said, I'm super-excited to be joining you today.

Karen Edwards: For people out there who are saying, "What was that name again?" It's Vapro, V-A-P-R-O, VaproShield.

Dan Clancy: It is.

Karen Edwards: What is VaproShield? What do you guys do?

Dan Clancy: VaproShield, if you were to ask any random guy or gal, "Hey, have you heard of VaproShield?" "Yeah, the frog." It's always synonymous with the name. So that's good. Brand recognition is a frog. But we are probably 22 years now, 23 years, we've been around. We were founded out in the Pacific Northwest in Seattle over 20 years ago.

Karen Edwards: Lots of moisture out there.

Dan Clancy: Lots of moisture. That's really the crux of how we came about. It was just the condo crisis up in the Seattle market and what do we do? How do we fix this? VaproShield was founded and all these many years later, we pride ourselves on being a solution-oriented company. We like to provide the market. We help identify needs, and then we try our very best to meet those needs with materials, with products, with systems. Truth be told, we started with an influence on the wall, managing moisture through the walls. But the walls have easily migrated to the full envelope to include the roof. So that's I think what we're going to be talking about mostly about today.

Karen Edwards: Yeah, yeah, that's really exciting. There's always solutions that come out of solving a problem, and those products are usually game changers. I think from the little bit of research that I did before we got on this podcast, you've got some really cool technology. There's something that you are introducing called SlopeShield Plus SA. Can you talk a little bit about exactly what that is and maybe how it works?

Dan Clancy: Yeah. SlopeShield Plus, it's a sheet membrane, it's a peel and stick sheet membrane, that is specifically designed for roofs or horizontal applications. We've taken our pedigree is managing moisture typically with breathable membranes. I mentioned earlier the frog. I'm very often asked, "Well, why is a frog your logo?" Because frogs have breathable skin. They can live in the water, but they thrive in the water because their skin is breathable. So, how do you translate that into a building, into a structure? It's very commonplace for someone, even in a home Depot, a do-it-yourselfer, I want my house to breathe. I want my building to breathe. Well, what does that really mean? The skin of the building is how we can allow it to breathe, but still provide the weather protection.

We've taken our experience or expertise on the walls and we've just carried it up onto the roof. Slope Shield Plus is a permeable vapor retarder. It's typically installed at the deck. For all the different types of roofing assemblies that are out there, standing seam metal, any kind of exotic metal, modified bitumen, single ply, all the above. At some point in that assembly you should have an air barrier. So SlopeShield Plus is just that. It's an air barrier, which we typically install at the deck. But the interesting thing and the new thing, and probably a lot of what we're talking about is, it's permeable. So a lot of people, that's a newer concept, having a permeable underlayment or a permeable air barrier or vapor retarder in the roof.

Karen Edwards: Yeah. What does that mean? Just define permeable for me.

Dan Clancy: A poor man's definition of permeable is, it just allows moisture vapor to transmit through. Common misperception is, well, it only goes one way. That's just not accurate. A permeable membrane allows moisture to transfer both ways. You just want to make sure that as far as the system, whether it's a roof or a wall, you want to try to control that moisture. So in essence, this is how I define permeability on a roof. You have rainwater, snow, whatever, bulk water. Obviously when you put SlopeShield Plus down, it's going to shed that water. It's true waterproofing. But if there's any kind of subsurface moisture, which is really the crux of the membrane, you're giving it that opportunity to escape out. Trapping moisture, especially in a roof, is a bad problem to have. That's what turns into much bigger problems down the road. It's newer technology. SlopeShield Plus has been around, I think commercialization was probably three years ago, plus/minus. But it's just, as far as the concept of having a permeable vapor retarder in a roof, it's still relatively new concept that we're trying to take to market.

Karen Edwards: I know that you have some webinar series, you have some education opportunities for people to learn more about this and do a deeper dive than we'll do here today on the podcast. I believe they're accessible on your website, and I know we have some listed in your directory on RoofersCoffeeShop, so I'd encourage people to check that out.

Dan Clancy: Absolutely.

Karen Edwards: Okay. This is a newer concept. Are you using it in new roofing or is it having some value and meaning for re-roofs as well?

Dan Clancy: Both. It definitely accommodates both. It's not designed for one more than the other. I'll start with a re-roof application. There's a lot of roofs out there that, there's always a service life to a roof. Obviously for the owner, you want it to last as long as possible. But there's obviously things that you need to do to maintain that. But, it really functions 100% in both. With the re-roof, the beauty about the re-roof and I'm sure we'll talk about this at greater length, but it's designed to go over existing materials. Picture this, Karen, you have a re-roof application where the owner just spent 15, 20 years ago, a lot of money to put a new roof on or a re-roof on, whatever the case. Ideally, "Oh man, I have to tear all that off again?" SlopeShield Plus has, and this is not just happenstance, this is actual, factual. We have data, we have specific projects, project profiles where we've done this, where we've been able to go over, SlopeShield Plus has gone over, existing insulation, existing building materials, that would have otherwise had to have been disposed of.

Karen Edwards: Because they had moisture?

Dan Clancy: Correct. Yeah. They just met their service life. They were wet ... Moisture's a funny thing. Is it moist? Is it damp? Is it wet? There's a lot of different degrees of moisture. Sometimes, there's something that's too wet, that is a reality that unfortunately has to be disposed of. But the beauty about SlopeShield Plus, and again, our credence as a company is trying to find solutions, provide solutions. The problem would be on a roof, "Man, my multiple layers of insulation is wet. I hate having to eat that cost. Tear off, replace with new," but you don't have to. That's our calling card right now in a lot of re-roof applications. You don't have to throw everything away, tear it all off. You can go over existing materials. If you were to go to our website, a picture speaks a thousand words. But there's several projects that have a re-roof application where we have done just that, where we've gone over existing materials. Some come to mind that I've personally been a part of, Newark Airport up in New Jersey.

Karen Edwards: Good. I was going to ask you. Because I will say that the thought of putting a membrane, permeable, over wet insulation is really scary. Please ...

Dan Clancy: The first one that comes to mind for me personally is up in New Jersey, Newark Airport. Airports, they're big projects. A lot of people, a lot of eyes and ears, a lot of attention. The designer in this re-roof application, one of the terminals, one of the terminal roofs was getting a new roof. Part of the design was to leave some of the existing layers. It wasn't insulation in this case, specific to Newark Airport was gypsum board. There were multiple layers of gypsum board over the existing metal deck. Probably when it was built for fire purposes, they had multiple layers. Some of those layers had interstitial moisture within. So rather than tearing it all off and the exorbitant cost that would've been, the designer utilized SlopeShield Plus. So we tore off the existing roof down to those gypsum layers. We put SlopeShield Plus down. Let it dry out. And then go with the finished assembly from there.

Newark Airport. From there, I jumped down to Tampa, coincidentally an airport, where it was in fact insulation, polyiso insulation. They left it in place, put the Slope Shield down, let it dry out and then they put their finished metal, standing seam metal, directly over top. So there's a long list of projects we've done where, it's easy to talk about going over existing materials, but have you actually done it? Does it actually work? We have data. We have testing to show the benefits of utilizing a SlopeShield Plus membrane. That drying effect, the drying feature and having to reuse those existing materials is a huge game-changer in our industry.

Karen Edwards: Yeah. So it's providing weather protection while it's allowing the materials underneath to dry?

Dan Clancy: Correct. Exactly that.

Karen Edwards: That's hard to wrap your brain around.

Dan Clancy: It is. But I try to simplify it like this. If you go back to high school chemistry class, and when the teacher's talking about molecules and the size of molecules and it's really a simple conversation with the size of a water molecule versus the size of a vapor molecule. That's why personally, if I'm giving a presentation and I start to get that deer in a headlight look from an architect or a contractor or whomever, I go back to high school chemistry with them. I say, "The reason why you can have a permeable membrane is because, and have it be in the dry and have it be true waterproofing, is because of that molecule size." The rainwater, the bulk water, is a larger molecule than that of vapor. That's when you have the vapor underneath.

Well, how does that work? SlopeShield is a black membrane, so it's going to heat up when it's exposed to that sun. Even in the dead of winter, even in January, February, that black membrane is going to heat up. We all know that moisture goes towards the warm side. So when that sun heats up that membrane, if there's any subsurface moisture, it's going to pull it to the top and the breathable feature, it's going to escape out. That's how you can get wet or moist insulation to dry out, but it's still weathertight. Does that make sense?

Karen Edwards: It does. Yeah. It really makes sense. I love to hear it because for a long time we are like, "Well, the insulation's wet, it's got to go." That's more insulation in the landfills or more construction debris being disposed of. There's that sustainability feature, I think that is interesting. But I had a question too, when you mentioned Tampa airport and standing seam metal over top of it. When you think of standing seam metal, you think of you need the high temperature performance, especially in Florida. How does that work with SlopeShield?

Dan Clancy: Great question. SlopeShield, the reason why roofing membranes are even categorized with temperature, high temperature, low temperature is typically past tense. Most any product contained asphalt. So in the underlayment space for many, many years, it was an asphaltic peel and stick typically is what was installed. Asphalt, just as a product, has a softening point. So temperature is extremely relevant. Everyone has heard of or seen firsthand asphalt liquefy. When it reaches that softening point, it can liquefy and gravity will cause it to run and sometimes leak down the side of a building slope. SlopeShield Plus, because of its composition, there's zero asphalt. So temperature is really a moot point. I think industry standard for high temperature is, I might be wrong on this, 240 degrees, maybe 250.

Karen Edwards: Yeah, I think you're right. 240.

Dan Clancy: We're well over that for that simple reason, it's completely non-asphaltic. So the chemistry, the sustainability of it, we're not nearly as temperature prone as other types of products because of what it's made of. We have a high temp product any day, all day, it's a non-issue for us. Regardless of the cladding that's going over top.

Karen Edwards: The name is SlopeShield Plus SA, and I don't want to assume, but is SA self-adhered?

Dan Clancy: You are correct.

Karen Edwards: That seems to be a common term in the industry, but I didn't want to say-

Dan Clancy: All the manufacturers have their quirky acronyms and numbers that they put to it. We try to keep it simple. SA 100% is self-adhered, fully adhered.

Karen Edwards: ... So it's a pretty easy installation process?

Dan Clancy: I'd like to say so. It's a traditional peel and stick, Karen. You're going to peel, stick and then for us, no questions asked to, no gray area, you peel, stick and roll. We have to use a weighted roller. Strongly recommend using a weighted roller because of the adhesive on the underside. To get technical just for a second, it's a PSA, pressure sensitive adhesive. When you just use your hands or a broom, that's good to get it in place, but it needs that contact, it needs that pressure, that weight, which activates the adhesive and then it allows it to bite to the substrate, whatever it's adhering to. Same technology for a wall. Just using your hands to fan out the membrane on a wall, the roof, you have to have a roller, whether it's roof or wall, to activate that adhesive and then that's what allows it to bite to the substrate.

Karen Edwards: All right. I'd love to know what kind of feedback you're getting from the contractors, from the project managers, building owners?

Dan Clancy: At large, it's been really positive. Sometimes there's still some education. There's a learning curve. Like I said, sometimes I spend an hour trying to get through the permeability and moisture and how is something watertight but yet permeable? Sometimes it takes me a minute to get that established. But overall feedback has been really positive. Specifically for contractors.

Some of the things ... a lot of people have referred to it as a game changer for the simple reason, like I said earlier, going over existing materials. If you were to just ask me, Karen, generically, what's the number one thing. If I'm trying to sell SlopeShield Plus to whomever is listening, what's the first thing that you want them to remember? Is that SlopeShield Plus can go over existing materials. That's a really cool, unique feature. Because, let's face it, moisture is everywhere. Even down in Arizona. This is not a Seattle conversation. It's not a Miami conversation. It's not just a New York City conversation. It's an everywhere conversation. The ability of Slope, Shield plus to go over existing materials, for all the reasons that we were talking about.

The cost. Let's face it, at the end of the day, dollars makes decisions and sometimes the dollars just aren't there for any given project. "I just don't have the budget for a full tear off and replacement and new materials come in. But what can I do? My roof needs drastic repair and/or replacement." So again, our calling card as a company was to try to provide solutions. We really feel like we're providing a solution in being able to utilize those existing materials. That's ding, ding, ding, number one answer, that is our calling card with this product.

Karen Edwards: Say we've got, whether that's moisture in gypsum board or polyiso and we've installed the SlopeShield, how frequently ... I know it's going to depend. It depends how wet it is. I want to ask how long does it take to dry. But how often should you go back and do you need a thermal imaging to make sure it is fully dry? What's that process look like?

Dan Clancy: Yeah, you have to measure it. You have to quantify. It's always good to have a baseline. Hey, this roof, is it a good candidate? Is it not? Definitely, within our industry there's a lot of different responsibilities and roles. But consultants, we strongly recommend the use of an envelope consultant or roof consultant. Competent, knowledgeable architects. People that can quantify if there's moisture, well, how much? Where is it? All those good things.

But you touched on something I wanted to spend a minute talking about with how long can it dry? But specifically going back to your prior question, what are some features and benefits or feedback is what you had asked. Our ability to go over concrete, whether structural concrete, lightweight structural concrete, lightweight insulating concrete, our general rule of thumb per the data sheet, in the black and white of a data sheet, is five days after concrete is poured. This sometimes opens up Pandora's box on a project with whenever concrete decks are in place, and well, how much time? Is it seven days, 14 days, 28 days? There's a lot of feedback out there. For VaproShield, for SlopeShield Plus, it's a cut and dry. Five days after that concrete is poured, you can get that roof in the dry.

Karen Edwards: Wow.

Dan Clancy: Because again, we're ultimately asking SlopeShield to do what it's designed to do. So all that moisture-

Karen Edwards: Let the moisture out.

Dan Clancy: ... Let it dry out, but you're still dried in. So for a contractor, for a general contractor more so, how valuable is that that? That they can put their building in the dry, possibly do interior, let the trades continue their work, but still be watertight? That's huge. Without having blisters, without having problems. So again, we go with our credence. We're trying to provide solutions. That in and of itself is a game changer.

Karen Edwards: It is. Yeah. I know NRCA has done studies on this. [inaudible 00:23:02] it's out there. It's moisture and lightweight concrete decks, and at what point is it dry? And whose fault is it when the problems arise later? It's finger pointing. This is a deal that you can put that right over concrete and it will allow it to ... it'll put the building in the dry and then allow the deck to finish drying out.

Dan Clancy: Yeah. That five days, that's our key, that's our target, I should say. But yeah, once that SlopeShield Plus goes down, you're in the dry. In and of itself, like I said, that's a game changer and we've gotten some phenomenal feedback. Again, it's one thing to just have a good idea. Yeah, that'll work. We'll prove it. Have you done it before? Have you tested for that before?With roofing, there's a lot of great ideas out there, but have you done the testing? Do you have the approvals to ... and the answer for VaproShield with SlopeShield Plus is absolutely yes. We have a full portfolio of testing code approvals, Florida product approvals. Anyone in roofing knows, if it passes muster in Florida, it's good most everywhere else. We've definitely spent a lot of time and resources to get those approvals to justify what we're asking someone to consider doing.

Karen Edwards: Yeah, yeah. No, this is fantastic. The next question I think is kind of obvious. How do I start using this?

Dan Clancy: Well, the good thing is, one of the best tools we have within VaproShield is our website. We pride ourselves on that. We spend a lot of time trying to make it as user-friendly as possible. So if you are a contractor, architect, owner, anyone in the industry, I would encourage you to go to our website at which you can self-educate really well. It's really easy. But as far as getting a hold of someone, "Hey, VaproShield, great. SlopeShield Plus, I want to give it a try, but I don't know who to call." Wherever you are in North America, you can find a local rep. You can find a local employee. We make it very easy to get in touch with someone at VaproShield that can get you whatever you need. So my shortest answer is just to go to the website, and from there you can definitely find your way.

Karen Edwards: Yeah, and that is VaproShield.com. V-A-P-R-O.

Dan Clancy: It is, yeah.

Karen Edwards: Yeah.

Dan Clancy: Absolutely.

Karen Edwards: And if you didn't get a chance to jot that down, you can just go to RoofersCoffeShop and go to the VaproShield directory and find all the contact information there.
Dan, this was really interesting. Thank you so much for being here today and sharing about this amazing technology.

Dan Clancy: Yeah, Karen, this was great. Thank you so much for having me. I enjoyed it.

Karen Edwards: Thank you all for listening to this episode of Roofing Road Trips. Be sure to subscribe, follow us on social media. We don't want you to miss a thing. Hopefully we'll see you on a future episode. Thank you.

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