Cool Coatings: Combating Urban Heat Islands - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Lauren Rogers of Sherwin-Williams. You can read the interview below, listen to the podcast or watch the recording.

Intro: Okay. Hello everyone and welcome to this month's RLW. We are so excited to be here today to talk about cool coatings. This is really top of mind and top of specs, top of everything that's going on out there on how do we really keep our cities cool. So we're going to talk about that. First, a few little housekeeping. My name is Heidi Ellsworth and this is being recorded. So be sure to share this. It'll be available in 24 hours, and share this out to other roofing professionals, to people in your company, friends and family, whoever it may be.

We will be taking questions at the end of this RLW, but feel free to chat as we go along. I already see Joe in the chat. Hello and good afternoon. So please feel free to make comments, but we will take those and any questions at the end of this webinar. So let's get started. I am thrilled to introduce Lauren Rogers from Sherwin-Williams. Lauren, welcome to the show.

Lauren Rogers: Thank you for having me, Heidi.

Heidi J Ellsworth: It is great to have you here and if you could, I would love it if you could introduce yourself.

Lauren Rogers: Yes, of course. So like as you said, my name is Lauren Rogers. I am the Sustainability Manager for Sherwin-Williams Coil and Extrusion Coatings. I graduated from the University of St. Thomas here in Minneapolis where I'm based, with a degree in biology and another degree in Spanish with a focus in sustainability, of course. And so that is where my career path has led me and I'm so excited to be here talking about cool coatings today. 

Heidi J Ellsworth: I know. Such a great topic and a lot of interest. So let's get started. Let's start out with what are cool coatings? Let's just set some groundwork.

Lauren Rogers: Yeah, definitely. So cool coatings, baseline definition, they are reflective paint or material that can be applied to roofs and walls we'll be talking about both today. That can reduce the amount of heat absorbed by a building. So this will help reduce energy bills, increase the feelings for the occupants within the building, help combat the urban heat island effect and reduce the amount of pollution that is emitted from that respective building.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And when you really look at it, what colors can be cool coatings? How does that work?

Lauren Rogers: So there really isn't a limit to what colors can and can't be cool coatings. It all depends on how the pigment is formulated and what pigments you are going to be using in your coating. We'll definitely get a bit into specific pigments in a little bit here, but I really like to say there's not a specific color that is yes or no. Talk to your coatings expert to see what can and will get you the closest, if not exact match for the color you're looking for.

Heidi J Ellsworth: We are specifically talking today about pool coatings on metal. So what is the niche that they're filling for the industry? How is this in the bigger picture?

Lauren Rogers: Yeah, so metal in itself is already one of the best building products because of its sustainable attributes that metal inherently has. So right now, we are working on building off of that and creating a coating that also has some sustainable attributes to it. So this solar reflective coating is enhancing those abilities of the attributes that the metal already inherently has and making it better than it is.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Okay. Well, so let's talk a little bit about those factors that make a roof cool, how that works, between solar thermal, all of that. Can you explain that?

Lauren Rogers: Yeah, so just like we just talked about. So what a cool coating is, it helps reduce the amount of heat absorbed by the building. And so the cool coating does this in two ways. Solar reflectance and thermal emittance are the two terms we'll be using. So solar reflectance is a measure of the ability's surface to reflect solar radiation and it designates the total reflectance of a surface considering all hemispherical reflectance of radiation. So this includes specular and diffuse reflection as well. Thermal emittance is a measure of how well a surface emits heat through infrared radiation. So specifically for cool coatings, how much that heat is rejected off of that surface. So combining both of those solar and thermal. Then we've got the solar reflective index, and this is a measurement of how well a surface can reflect solar radiation and thermal radiation to stay cool in the sun.

So it's a calculated value that combines a material solar reflectance and thermal emittance into a single number. And typically, these SRI values range from zero to 100 and then a standard darkest black you can get will have an SRI of zero and then while a standard white pure white, it will have an SRI of 100. So the higher SRI material is, the better it is that rejecting heat and staying cool and a lower SRI material is more likely to get really hot in that direct sunlight.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Excellent, excellent. Okay, that makes sense. And thank you because you're bringing it down to a point where it does make sense. And as contractors are out there thinking about SRI, is this something that they can get off of packaging? Is this something they have to look up? Is this something building owners are going to ask them about?

Lauren Rogers: Definitely, this is 100% something building owners and contractors will be able to find and be asked about. So typically these are values that are calculated in a lab. So often these values have to be requested but are very easy. So at Sherwin we are able to calculate these at our facility in Fort Myers, Florida. And we have our values verified by the Cool Roof Rating Council, the CRRC, that is a third-party, non-biased source that vets and approves SRI values of coatings.
So if you are looking for an SRI value, I definitely would look for that CRRC label next to it to make sure that it is in fact accurate. And so these values are calculated in a lab and can be easily accessed through your coatings expert.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And for everyone out there, we do partner with CRRC also and they have a directory on RoofersCoffeeShop, so you can find out more information about them there. Okay. What roofs are ideal for cool coatings?

Lauren Rogers: Yeah, so this is one of the biggest questions right now. And so one of the big areas that cool coatings and metal roofs receiving the most attention are in urban areas. And so this is inherently because cool coatings are helping mitigate the urban heat island effect. So we'll get into that a little bit about what the heat island effect is, but for a basic definition, it's where urban areas are experiencing higher temperatures. So these cool roofs are helping mitigate and keep the temperatures of these urban areas a bit lower.

Now, that's not to say that rural areas can't benefit from metal roofs at all because metal roofs and cool coatings have their natural inherent abilities of durability. They are more resistant to weathering. Again, with these cool coatings, they're able to stay cooler. So they're not explicit, only beneficial for urban areas. However, when it comes to specific combating mitigating... Excuse me, mitigating the urban heat island, definitely most beneficial in that urban area, but benefits are exemplified in both.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Okay. What about low slope versus steep slope?

Lauren Rogers: So low slope and steep slope, it comes into play with how the light is hitting the roof. So this is actually a factor that really doesn't affect the solar reflective value all that much of the paint because we are looking at the color and how that pigment is rejecting that heat and light. Ultimately, as far as my knowledge goes, it's a pretty negligible difference as far as if it's a steep or a low slope. So I like to say that talk to your coatings expert as far as your geography, what is the beneficial style for your roof to have and what would be the best coating for it to have?

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, and so as we're talking about metal roofs and getting these cool coatings, so you're going to have opportunities for re-roof, right?

Lauren Rogers: Yes.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And recover. As you're looking at that, is there anything to be thinking about along that lines as you're basically either tearing off or going over a roof with a metal roof with the cool coatings?

Lauren Rogers: Yeah, definitely. So implementing a cool coating in a re-roof situation is definitely a great opportunity to implement a metal roof with more sustainable attributes. The biggest and best example I have is if you're ripping out an asphalt shingle roof and you're replacing it with a metal roof, definitely talk to your sales rep and your coatings expert and your local contractor as far as what would be the best metal and also coating for your geography. However, this is absolutely an option and is strongly recommended due to the other sustainable attributes of metal roofs as well.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Okay, perfect. And you really made me think there too, as we're talking out to the contractors and they are visiting with their homeowners and their building owners, we're really looking at that of having them move to a metal roof. And I know we're going to talk about this a little bit further, but there's really a lot of energy savings that go along with that too for the homeowners with these cool coatings, right?

Lauren Rogers: Yes, absolutely. That is a huge, huge piece of metal roofs is their energy savings and energy expenditure that the building is saving when using a metal roof. And coupled with that, a lot of times you'll see either local, state, federal, I've even seen county level incentives, financial incentives to switch over from an asphalt roof to a metal roof because of these inherent benefits you just talked about.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, that's perfect. Okay. Most of the time we take comments and questions throughout the webinar, but we're going to actually hold those for this at the end. So if you are putting in the chat, perfect, thank you. I'm not ignoring them and we will get to them. So stay tuned for that. Okay, coating pigments. Let's just talk about that.

Lauren Rogers: Yeah, so this is, as we mentioned, is exactly where the solar reflective coatings get their reflective properties. So there are two main types of pigments that are very common and popular, organic and inorganic. Organic pigments are synthetic and they contain carbon and made up of carbon atoms, nitrogen, hydrogen, oxygen and sulfur. And they are usually the really, really bright and translucent colors that you'll see and they have a super high tint strength and then inorganic are made from minerals in salts and they are not based on these carbon chains and rings.

So you'll see solar reflective pigments in both, but it all depends on what color you're looking for. So again, I keep referring you back to your coatings expert and your sales rep to make sure that you get that color you want with the pigments that you request.

Heidi J Ellsworth: When you're talking about that, and we said this a couple of times, check in with your regional, talk a little bit about that. Just different colors for different parts of the country or is it more just what people like or you're trying to get the highest reflectivity? What's the purpose of that?

Lauren Rogers: Yeah, it's a factor of all three really. So aesthetics are a huge piece. So it's very personal. So whether you're an architect, you're a homeowner, your needs are going to differ and for what kind of look you're wanting for your building or your roof. So if you are a primary, elementary school, you might want a bright green or red siding and metal paneling and roof, but I don't know about if I want that for my house here in Minnesota. I'm not sure how that would look with my neighbors. So it really depends. All of those are options and available to me, but the aesthetics are a huge piece.

Also, exactly, geography. So in the deserts of Arizona and Utah, black roofs are really, really heat of absorbers. So those are options for the metal coatings that maybe we don't necessarily consider as heavily because of the aesthetics, but also because of their high absorption rate. But now if we're looking in the forest of Canada, maybe we do consider a little bit of those darker pigments a bit more. So I really encourage you to talk to that local rep, your contractor, because they are the ones that are in that area the most and the experts in that field where they can help guide you to figure out what are the best colors, pigments to use for this coating. And then when you do, I want to say when, to go that solar reflective route, can you achieve that?

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, really interesting. And so just to dive down just a little bit more on that is as you're talking about temperature differences, that's really... And I love that because I'm thinking about... My home is in the mountains of Oregon. We are trying to bring a little bit of heat in sometimes, especially when there's snow and everything like that. So comparing that and the pigments with the temperature differences from say Florida to Oregon, the mountains of Oregon, that again can really help create an overall better atmosphere for your home depending on where you're at. And I know you just talked about that, but just to help people really understand that.

Lauren Rogers: Yeah, definitely. Yes, it all comes back to what you want for that building. So if you're looking to retain and keep more of that heat in, that is maybe then you are looking for a coating that potentially does not have as many solar reflective properties as compared to one that does because you want to retain rather than reject that heat. Now, like you said, you are in Oregon, I'm in Minnesota. We maybe want to keep a little bit more of that heat than our neighbors down in Utah and Arizona. So it all depends on what attributes you are looking for that building to embody, whether it's to keep or reject that heat.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Excellent. Okay. You talked about earlier, the difference between rural and urban and really that urban how cool coatings can be helping. Let's talk a little bit about heat islands. First of all, let's just start with what are they?

Lauren Rogers: Yeah, defined by the US EPA, heat islands are urbanized areas that experience higher temperatures than underlying areas. So structures that are made up of hardscape like buildings, roads and other infrastructure you'd find in an urban area absorb and then re-emit that sun's heat more than a natural landscape such as a body of water or forests. And these urban areas where these structures are very concentrated and greenery is limited, become, "Islands," of higher temperatures relative to outer lying, more rural, more green, physically green trees and grass areas. And in these heat islands, daytime temperatures can range from anywhere from one to seven degrees Fahrenheit higher than outer lying areas, excuse me and nighttime temperatures can range anywhere from two to five degrees Fahrenheit higher.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I think we've all heard about this, but how is this really affecting those urban areas?

Lauren Rogers: Yeah, so the first way that is very obvious is we are seeing the impacts on humans. So when you check the weather to go from the suburbs of Chicago into the downtown area, you'll notice that that temperature is higher in that downtown area. And that might affect you as far as what you're wearing, the quality of air and the activities you do. We are seeing these increasingly, especially on heat waves. And so one of the biggest areas that are affected is human health. So heat-related illnesses are the big one. And also, for all of my contractors out there and those folks who do manual labor, you are absolutely the main ones feeling the direct impacts of these heat islands as you're the ones standing on the sides of these metal buildings or roofs where you're having that heat radiated immediately onto you. And so working towards mitigating and reducing the effects of these higher temperatures in these urban areas can help improve our human health.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And we're seeing it. We're seeing this happen every summer through many things. So really, I think people probably are skeptical at some point of how does this really help in the urban areas? And I know you've talked a little bit about that, but let's just dive into that a little bit of what cool coatings can do in an urban area to bring down on the temperatures, to help improve health of both people, plants, animals?

Lauren Rogers: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. So the best example that I've got is if you are looking at a coating and you're having one panel be a bronze, just a mid-tone, non-solar reflective bronze and then the panel immediately next to it, a solar reflective pigment, bronze, same exact color. The standard pigment on average will be 225 degrees Fahrenheit in the sun. The solar reflective pigment is 162 degrees Fahrenheit. That is 63 degrees difference that you're seeing just because of the different kind of pigment in that mid-tone bronze, and with no visual difference.

Now, this is something that seems very minute, but again, for those people in that urban area, for the employees working on and near this building, for those working in it are feeling that 63 degrees difference. And that is one of the easiest ways to combat the heat island is with these metal roofs and coating. Now, there is not a single policy to reduce heat islands. Rather, it is communities and industries coming together using a multi-strategy approach to reduce these temperatures city-wide.

Of course, we've already talked about how geography and the local climate absolutely affects this and is very different where you are in the world. There's other co-benefits involving public health officials, energy organizations, energy companies. So incentivizing these metal roofs, solar reflective coatings and then also using and optimizing our data that we have. So focusing on social vulnerability and risk factors of the local population. So making sure that areas aren't disproportionately affected by these heat islands, and if they are, take steps to enact that change.
And then also looking at potentially enacting mandatory efforts. So these would be your zoning or code changes or potentially some other voluntary efforts like a tree planting program or increasing the amount of green space or green roofs in a given area.

Heidi J Ellsworth: We're seeing this happen in major cities around the country, right?

Lauren Rogers: Yes. Oh, majorly. So this is a huge shift that we are seeing where yes, metal is being instituted with solar reflective coatings across many urban areas and also, we are seeing increase of green space and green roofs thanks to policies and groups like the US Green Building Council, LEED, are really pushing these forwards as they have credit options for using solar reflective roofs and green space as well to help achieve credits.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Okay. So knowing what we're combating and what needs to happen. Let's talk about some of the benefits. Obviously just our cities, our health, those are the benefits, but there's other benefits here too that really can help building owners and for contractors to be able to talk about this. So I think this is really important, especially this time of year. Right? Contractors are going in, they're talking to building owners and talking about 2025 and what they should do. So talk about some of the co-benefits of cool coatings and how contractors can really bring this information to the building owners.

Lauren Rogers: Yeah, definitely. So first up here, we've got the triple bottom line. So this is not only one benefit, but three. So for those that may not know, the triple bottom line is a sustainability framework that revolves around the three Ps, the people, planet and profit. So this is focusing on not just only the environmental benefits of cool coatings in which we're talking about today, but focusing on all three areas. So people that live and work in this potential building, and then also the profit behind it. So making sure that as a contractor you are making money, but also that the occupants of the building have some cost payoff as well. So making sure that this triple bottom line is maximizing all three.

And then with that and groups of organizations, people are more likely to have a net positive impact on not only the world and environment where they live, but also their own financial well-being. So this triple bottom line is a business model, but also, it helps give a holistic view of potential benefits of items and technologies just like this. So that is an item that I really like to bring up and focus on that yes, this is a benefit where we can see the impact in the environment, but also in our bank accounts and for those people that live and work in this area.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Health and safety. This triple bottom line, is this something that building owners already are looking at these models and thinking about it, so they may be asking contractors about that?

Lauren Rogers: 100%. And we're seeing that with programs like LEED, especially because LEED focuses on taking this holistic approach. Sustainability, I think it gets a really bad rap for being, "Oh, well, it's just the tree huggers. It's just about the environments." And same with metal buildings, cool coatings. And people often only see, "Oh, well, it just keeps things cool. Oh, they just last a long time. Oh, just recyclable." But in reality, there are a lot of other benefits that go along with these technologies and these products. And so focusing on them as a whole overview and taking that step back really allows for all the benefits to be felt across the board.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And when I really think about it's not just... And maybe we can talk about this here for a second. It's not just roofing either. We now have architectural metals on the siding, the whole building envelope, which again, is reflective. And when you think about the different levels and everything that's reflecting within an urban setting, whether it's new construction through architects or roof consultants or building owners who are looking to maybe upgrade their building envelope overall, the aesthetics of these colors and all the difference and be able to do any color with certain amounts of SRI, talk to us a little bit about that.

Lauren Rogers: So aesthetics are arguably one of the most important, if not the most important for our architects, our contractors and our building owners. If it doesn't look good, we're not going to use it. We don't want it. And the same goes for me. If it doesn't look nice on my roof, I'm okay. But the benefit with this is that these colors and pigments are so customizable that you can really get almost whatever you want. I don't want to say whatever you want because there are always those exceptions, but you can nearly formulate every single color and get it to the exact tint, the exact shade, the level of gloss, the amount of reflectivity that you want for your building and to achieve not only your aesthetic goals, but any potential sustainability goals that you have for that inherent building or that project. So aesthetics are absolutely about the most important thing. And I think it's so fantastic that they're so customizable. You can get nearly anything you want.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, I just think about some of the beautiful buildings and roofs that I've seen and the ability for metal to look in a lot of different architectural designs and how that comes together and how they can bring it together. But I know one of the big ones, whether it's urban or rural or wherever you're at, is energy savings and everyone is top of mind today on energy savings. Let's talk a little bit about that.

Lauren Rogers: So reduced energy usage is one of the biggest benefits directly seen with cool coatings, and this is one of the most heavily researched items. So there was a research study put out a couple of years ago focusing specifically on solar reflective coatings and metal roofing because it inherently lowers the heat transferred into the building, and then this allows the building to stay cooler and then use less energy for air conditioning, specifically this study focused on residential buildings and it was able to reduce peak cooling demand between 11% and 27% throughout the study period. So this is a significant amount of energy that was able to be saved. I'd say roughly 30% on these residents' electric bills, just simply because they switch roofs, they switch colors, they switch metal panels. So a significant impact can be seen on those energy bills.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And I think that's a big part of what we're seeing right now across the board that people were looking for win-win-win. They wanted to look beautiful. They wanted to help the environment, they wanted to help keep people safe, but they also want to save money and they want to be able to put some of that money to the bottom line. So when you put all of these together and as contractors are talking to the building owners or the architects or the consultants or whoever it may be, what kind of response is the overall industry coming back with on this? We talked about it a little bit earlier, but is this one of the things that is continuing to push the growth of metal?

Lauren Rogers: Generally the response is positive because of those aesthetic that is like these we mentioned, they're very customizable. The benefits of metal that are already inherently there, the long-lasting, durability and also the benefits of the coatings in general with how long they're able to last. And so all of those capabilities are still there. Now you're adding in that solar reflective piece, so you're really already making something that is already good even better and adding in that extra layer, that icing on the top. So overwhelming, I'd say there has been a positive response, especially within the architectural community that works mainly in these urban areas to help mitigate these urban heat island and achieve potential lead credits.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And savings. So there you go. Okay. So with that triple line bottom line or triple bottom line, and really looking at some of the things you've been talking about, let's talk just a little bit about health, human health and really what we're seeing in this area with heat islands and just overall temperatures that are across the country. What are some of the things that cool coatings are helping?

Lauren Rogers: So heat related illnesses is the biggest one with the rise of extreme temperatures. There was a study done in the UK that showed cool roofs when implemented across the entire city were able to offset 18% of heat related mortality illnesses associated with the heat island effect. So this is something that has been studied and vetted and help mitigate and reduce these health impacts of extreme heat. So heat exhaustion, respiratory illnesses, dizziness, cramps and even potentially death can be simply reduced. The risk can be reduced due to implementing roofs with solar reflective coatings.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I guess I just want to also put out there too that this is solar cool coatings on any types of metals. So whether we're talking about tiles, standing seam, architectural, panels, however we're doing that, there's just a lot of ways to get metal implemented in the architecture to help gain some of these benefits. So as you're looking at that too from the environmental benefits, the overall what's happening out there, how are cool coatings really playing a part in all of that on the bigger picture?

Lauren Rogers: So the overall big view, a big umbrella view, looking at the environmental benefits, we've already hit on reduced energy usage, but coupled on the other side of that is the reduced air pollution and greenhouse gas emissions associated with that. So by decreasing our energy usage, cool roofs are able to decrease the associated air pollution and greenhouse gases associated with that energy usage. So when this was applied at a scale large enough to affect ambient temperatures, cool roofs can reduce the formation of ground level ozone, which is heat dependent and reduce then the cooling to use across the entire city.

Heidi J Ellsworth: That really forms quite a big circle that it affects things all around, when you think about that.

Lauren Rogers: This is something that is not isolated. So it's not inherently just for the building itself, whether you live, you work, you visit an urban area, you will feel the effects of the urban heat island effect and these are items that obviously can be used to combat that.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Right. Okay. So one of the things we talk about a lot is how the compatibility, really how great metal is with solar and solar panels. So let's talk a little bit about that.

Lauren Rogers: Yeah, metal roofs are inherently really great for solar panels because of their... So all of the benefits of metal roofs and compatibility with solar panels are still there. So none of that changes with a cool coating. So really, again, we are just adding that icing on the cake with these cool coatings and the metal roofs, you are not only getting the energy benefits from those solar panels and their attachments, but you're also increasing the benefit of that roof or panels due to the solar reflective capabilities as well.

So in these solar, there's no studies that show any difference on the benefits and use of solar panels that have solar reflective coatings. So there is no evidence that shows that there's any impact on solar panels with solar reflective coatings. So it is a great option to have and to use with both of those sustainable attributes on a roof.

Heidi J Ellsworth: So really, because I think a lot of times people are out there and they're thinking, "Well, if it reflects more, is that going to do something to the solar panels?" But what you're saying is, "No, it doesn't increase, it doesn't decrease." It just is very compatible.

Lauren Rogers: Right now, there is no evidence that shows otherwise. And so it is the same as attaching solar panels to any other metal roof.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Wow. Okay, great. And just a reminder that we are going to take questions at the end. So don't think I'm ignoring your chats, but we'll take those for the amount that we can towards the end. So if you do have questions, be sure to put those in the Q&A or into the chat as we're going along. Okay. Sustainability, we've talked about this already a little bit with the decreased energy usage, but I don't know if people always are thinking that way about sustainability, about really being able to decrease energy. And you just said it in such a way that when you look at the long-term effects with other things. So talk a little bit more about that.

Lauren Rogers: Yeah, so I'm going to group these first two bullet points together. So the building life cycle is inherently much longer when used with metal panels, roofs and we all know that. Metal roofers got a shop, this is all we talk about. And so we know that metal roofs are incredibly durable and can last up to even 100 years when they're well-maintained. And so typically, we'll see a span of 40 to 70 years for an average homeowner versus 15 to 30 with those with asphalt shingles or wood shingles. So with this potential span of 40 to 70 years of a metal roof or siding, we're seeing a benefit of this decreased energy usage and at least the benefits of the solar reflective coating over that entire lifespan. So you're seeing this potential 11% to 27% of that study I just quoted earlier, decrease in your peak demand cooling over potentially 70 years of that metal roof.

So I don't know about you, but I would really like 30% off my energy bills for the next 70 years. That just seems like a really good thing and ultimately a really good financial payoff as well. And so that is one of a really great dual joint benefit that we see in those items working in tandem, a really long building life cycle, but also supported by a decrease in energy usage.

Heidi J Ellsworth: When you're talking about building life cycle, it seems to me like there's also other things is that you're not tearing off a roof every 15, 20 years or it's also that whole landfill and the fact that metal roofs are also recyclable.

Lauren Rogers: Exactly. Yeah. So the different coating and having a solar reflective coating does not impact the level of recyclability, whether it was a solar reflective coating or not a solar reflective, that does not change the level or ability to be recycled at all. I do strongly recommend don't just throw your metal roof and your average recycling bin. That is not how this works. It has to go to a specialty recycle facility depending on the area in which you live. So again, this is very regionally dependent. So make sure you are in contact with your contractor, your coatings and your metal experts for the area in which you live to make sure that it can be properly disposed and recycled. So you just want to throw that disclaimer out there. Don't just put it in your blue bin or your green bin that goes on the end of your driveway.

It's not how this works, but they is a very different than if your asphalt shingles that more than likely do end up in some sort of landfill or incinerator because of their structural integrity being poor at the end of their life cycle versus a metal roof that simply just needs to be reformed.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And so again, as we're looking at building owners making some of these decisions, whether it's a re-roof or it is a new construction, really, there are ways to calculate the give back, like you said, 30% a year. But there should be ways for the contractors to work with the building owners on really calculating the savings overall from not having to worry about sending it to the landfill and paying those fees and a lot of the regulations that are coming in that direction, along with being able to recycle it, but then the decreased energy costs, how should the contractors really approach this and what are some of the resources that they can use to make this data backed?

Lauren Rogers: So there are many, many great organizations out there, including the one we're on, to help provide the resources and the data to prove that these are actually beneficial. We mentioned the Cool Roof Rating Council, the CRRC. This is a great area, an organization to get data for those SRI values, but also research studies that prove the benefits of cool coatings. Also, the National Quail Coatings Association, this is another really great one. They have a couple workshops and folders where you're able to not only learn about cool roofs and the benefits of quail and coatings, but also how they are made as well. So in case you're wanting to learn a little bit more about that.
So those are two really great areas that are expansive in their knowledge as far as they just looking to educate and uplift this industry and just simply share that information without trying to sell you anything. So you're able to do your own research as far as the benefits of metal and cool coatings combined together, and then you're able to make your opinion on that.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Building owners, facility management companies across the board, who not only... Yes, there's incentives, there's some regulations and stuff, but they have internal documents and initiatives to be carbon-free, to recycle, to hit their sustainability goals. Talk a little bit about that and how these big corporations are really using metal and these cool coatings to help hit some of those initiatives?

Lauren Rogers: So metal is a great option for these organizations that are looking to help reduce their scope one and two, because of the traceability of it. And also, with that, metal is often and can have a lower carbon footprint depending on the way it's measured. So if you're looking cradle to gate, now I'm going to get a little bit technical here, if you're going cradle to gate, it might not look as good because how labor and resource intensive it is at the front of its life. However, if you're looking cradle to grave, the whole lifespan of that metal panel, roof, siding, yes, it is going to be significantly better compared to traditional building products.

And so that is helping reduce that overall impact of those metal building products on an organization's scope, one, two and potentially even three for their customers. So these are all helping in contributing, reducing the footprint for an organization.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Getting this information, whether it's for initiatives or it's for other types of sustainability or what they're doing. Really, we want to work with your architects and work with the... Because we're talking to contractors. So if this is new construction, talk to the architects. If you are with building owners, they know these initiatives, they know scope one, scope two, scope three possibly and by you being able to give this information that is provided in these resources, you can help them attain these goals.

Lauren Rogers: Yes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. This technology and these products are all designed to not only help, yes, the built environment, but also help customers and architects these buildings achieve whatever their sustainability goals they are working towards. So yes, these are exactly that. They are attributes to help solve the issues or work towards a goal in the bigger picture.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Okay. Let's talk a little bit about those resources. So Pete, if the contractors are out there, I want to start using cool coatings. How do you get started? Where do you find them?

Lauren Rogers: Well, they're all around you. No, the best way, if you are really interested in finding, looking into cool coatings is talking to yes, your contractor, but also your metal supplier, figuring out what kind of colors you're looking like going back to that aesthetic. If you are looking for specific formulations and making sure that this is feasible. And then also that geography. So it greatly varies depending on the area you're in, but whoever your local contact is for that coatings expert. And if you are looking for somebody Sherwin related, I can absolutely help you get connected with that or reach out to our inquiry form on our cool coatings website. That is the best way to get you in contact with a local or regional person that will have the expertise for your area.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Contractors who are purchasing from metal manufacturers, maybe they have scoped out, they've talked to their building owners and they were, "Yeah, we want to use cool coatings." How do you have that conversation and really work through that with the different metal manufacturers who are out there who are providing these different colors?

Lauren Rogers: So first and foremost, yeah, make sure that your manufacturer has the capability to do them. And then once you designate that, yes, you can move ahead, there is inherently really no difference coating it with a traditional paint standard color versus a solar reflective color. So make sure that the application is the same and your manufacturer will be able to assist you in that entire process. And then the manufacturer will come back to an organization like us, Sherwin, making sure that the color is exactly as you want it, give you a potential palette of options to make sure that we are achieving your aesthetic needs and that everything is the way that you want it to look. And then they will run it traditionally as they would run anything else. And then you will have your beautiful solar reflective coatings.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Beautiful. So for contractors who are looking to include this in their marketing materials, include it into their presentations, how can they incorporate these cool coatings into their own business model and their own marketing materials?

Lauren Rogers: So I would pull from organizations like this presentation from the Cool Roof Rating Council, from the NCCA, I would pull data, first and foremost, make sure that you're using data and tangible items that can be proved to help support the reasons why youth believe this would be a beneficial item. So incorporating this into then your portfolio, you are able to make the argument that, "Hey, these coatings are really great for these reasons that we just spent an hour talking about," and this would be the cost associated with them, and this is why you should use them because they have a lifespan of 40 to 70 years. They can reduce peak demand cooling and ultimately better for human health in the areas in which people live and work. So definitely use the sources that you have. Kyde, Metal Roofers Coffee Shop, NCCA, they're all great resources that are available to you.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And I would really recommend really, whether you're a sheet metal shop and you are buying coil and flats or whether you are a contractor who is buying preformed panels or roofing products or if you're buying tiles and roofing products, ask your manufacturers, ask your coil providers about these cool colors and cool coatings, excuse me, cool coatings. And be sure to also really look at talking to them about, "What kind of marketing materials do you have for this? Can you help? Can we partner together? Can we do these kind of things?" Because there's nothing better than a beautiful picture of a roof and then a nice diagram showing heat islands. In fact, it all goes together. Right, Lauren?

Lauren Rogers: Exactly, yes. It all comes back together. Nothing that we just talked about is isolated or lives in its own bubble. Everything is interconnected and can be used to support one another.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah. And support, not only are you growing your business, but you're helping the environment, you're helping the urban areas to cool down. You're helping people as always. That's what's so great about roofing and contractors and overall. Okay, let's take a couple of questions. Thank you everybody for getting these out here. This is great. So the first one was at the very beginning from Kevin, he said, "Within a coating class, can you comment on raw materials which can help improve increase performance properties related to TSR and emissivity?"

Lauren Rogers: Yeah, so this would come back to pigment, whether you decide to go organic or inorganic. Definitely inorganic is typically a better option, but again, you talk to your coating expert, you look for what colors you are going for, but also depending on what coding you are going for. So if you're using... I'm going to use Sherwin here. So if you're going to use our weather XL or our floor upon those properties, and those two coatings are very different. So that will help formulate how much resin you are looking for, your level of gloss. So it really comes down to what technology, and again, geography. So technology, geography and the color. So that's really a non-answer answer, but I would say talk to your coatings expert as far as what technology you're looking at specifically and then you can expand upon that.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And we had some comments about inorganic pigments, you just answered that. So thank you. You're ahead of the game. And then we did have a comment that just cool coatings are being used in a lot of different places too. So it's something in all of your building products, take a chance, ask those questions, just ask about it and see what's out there. And I do want to let you know, Lisa Savage said, "Great webinar, Lauren." Thank you.

We had a question from Joe. Hello, Joe. "The surface temperature of the metal panel greatly reduces the heat load on the underside of the solar panel. Some solar panels have two-sided where this helps the service life of the solar panels." So I guess that was more of a comment, but I know there are some solar panels that can capture solar from bottom and top. Yes. Okay, from me, we had a question, "How is hail damages impact the subject matter? How does hail impact cool coatings?"

Lauren Rogers: Yeah, so they really don't impact cool coatings any differently than a traditional coating on a metal roof would. So I would say, I know Joe, it looks like you commented and helped answer Ming's question already, which thank you because I am not a metal roof expert necessarily. I am a cool coatings expert, but it does absolutely cause potential damage, dent, dimple and if the factory applied coating then is significantly damaged, you'll definitely want to reach out to your coatings expert, your sales rep or your contractor, whoever helped you in that process to make sure that this issue is then rectified and taken care of because you don't want it to cause and spread potential further damage and have that coating come off even further. And then cause issues like rust for example.

Heidi J Ellsworth: If there's any other questions, now's your time, but we are at the end of our hours. So Lauren, thank you so much. What a great presentation.

Lauren Rogers: Of course. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate you giving me the opportunity to talk with you guys about cool coatings and they're one of my favorite topics. If you have any additional questions, items you want to talk about with Sherwin specifically, please don't hesitate to reach out through our website or you can find me directly. And yes, again, just thank you for your time.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Thank you so much. And I want to say thank you for all of you for being on here. Please visit the Sherwin-Williams Cool Coatings... Or actually, let's try that again. Sherwin-Williams directory on Roofers Coffee Shop and on Metal Coffee Shop. And to Lauren's earlier point, there is so much information out on both Coatings Coffee Shop, Metal Coffee Shop and Roofers Coffee Shop about this topic, about sustainability, about cool coatings and overall, on how you can bring this, incorporate this into your business and really have a differentiator to be talking to building owners about. So check that out. Also, we will have our next RLW again next month. So be sure to join us, check out all of our RLWs under the read list and watch navigation. There are some great on-demand webinars out there that can help you and also find more information like Lauren presented today. So again, Lauren, thank you so much.

Lauren Rogers: Thank you.

Outro: Thank you, and thank you all. Have a wonderful day and we'll be seeing you on our next coffee conversations tomorrow morning. Be sure to join us, all about Storm and from GAF and also next week, I saw Lisa, yes, we will see you at Western Roofing Expo with a live coffee conversations and lots of great interviews. So join us, stay tuned and we'll see you again soon.