Coffee Conversations LIVE From WRE 2024! - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Joshua Adams of Roof Scout, Kris Hitesman of Capital Roofing, Stephanie Baird of Bliss Roofing and Will Lorenz of General Coatings. You can read the interview below, listen to the podcast or watch the recording.

Intro: Hello and welcome to Coffee Conversations from RoofersCoffeeShop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth and we are live at Western Roofing Expo and we are on the Soundstage sponsored by General Coatings and Ever Roof. Thank you.

Will Lorenz: Thank you Heidi. Always great to be here. What a fabulous show. Everybody's out.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It is awesome. It is so packed and it's really loud, so if I sound like I am yelling, I might be, but we are going to have a conversation here today that is spectacular. We have the most amazing panel folks here today. So we're going to start with some introductions. We're going to start right over here with Josh. Can you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your company?

Joshua Adams: Yes, of course. My name is Josh Adams, coming live with RoofersCoffeeShop from a beautiful Paris hotel. I'm Josh and my company is Roof Scout and we are a digital salesman company and we are bringing 3D animation and the next wave of AI salesmanship to the marketplace. We're launching our product this coming spring, so it's going to be really exciting and yeah, happy to talk and share about it. Heidi, I've talked a lot about it with and she's been great.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: A little shameless plug here, but you're going to see this technology on RoofersCoffeeShop and Ask A Roofer.

Joshua Adams: Yes.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So just saying, it's coming your way. It's pretty exciting.

Joshua Adams: Yes. Absolutely.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Josh, thank you for being here today.

Joshua Adams: Yeah, thank you for having me so much. Appreciate it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It's okay. And I have to say Josh is also from my hometown, Central Oregon.

Joshua Adams: Yeah, we're Central Oregon buddies because I grew up in Bend and Heidi grew up in Sisters.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Pineville and Sisters. There you go.

Joshua Adams: So they call it the CO. It's Central Oregon, but if you're local it's The CO.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: The CO.

Joshua Adams: Yeah, absolutely.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And you're in Idaho now, in Boise?

Joshua Adams: Yeah. Boise. Yep. Absolutely.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Very good. And then Kris, I'm so excited to have you. Can you introduce yourself?

Kris Hitesman: Hi, I am Kris Hitesman from Capital Roofing in Sandy, Utah. And I'm also the incoming president for Western States-

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yay.

Joshua Adams: Yay.

Kris Hitesman: ... Roofing Contractors and Association and I am so excited about this next year.

Joshua Adams: That is great.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It is. So we are on the board together. I'm on advisory and you're going to be chair and I am so excited for you.

Kris Hitesman: I am so excited to work with you and to help get your ideas in place. I am just-

Joshua Adams: Heidi has ideas for everything, and they're always truly good. Yeah.

Kris Hitesman: I am one that doesn't think that we need to just keep staying the same. We need to mix things up a little bit to change things up to get-

Joshua Adams: Keep people interested, yeah.

Kris Hitesman: ... have forward momentum even.

Joshua Adams: Absolutely.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right.

Kris Hitesman: Because if you don't have forward momentum, where are you?

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Where are we?

Joshua Adams: Agreed.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: As an industry we've got to keep leading and we're going to talk about that because there's a lot going on with a lot of thought leaders who are making changes, which is exciting. Speaking of a thought leader and Stephanie, can you introduce yourself and company?

Stephanie Baird: I'm Stephanie Baird with Bliss Roofing, also out of Oregon. We've got some Oregonians here. I'm the general manager. We are a pitched residential company. I am also on the board of Western States, chairing the membership committee this coming year. Oh, boy.

Kris Hitesman: I'm excited for you.

Stephanie Baird: Oh, boy.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I'm excited to have you do that.

Stephanie Baird: It's always an honor to be on this panel. This is where the roofing industry meets and thank you so much for having me.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh, thank you. So excited. We also do a lot together at National Women in Roofing Oregon.

Stephanie Baird: Yes, we do. We are an aggressive movement.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes, we are.

Joshua Adams: Yes.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: An aggressive movement and proud of that.

Stephanie Baird: And very proud. Very proud.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Very proud.

Joshua Adams: Isn't NWIR like one of the fastest growing organizations in the country? That's fantastic.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I think so. I think so, and-

Joshua Adams: Especially in the roofing world. That's big, changes are coming.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It's really big.

Joshua Adams: That's fantastic.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And the next year with these two ladies it's going to be right there with Western States. And the growth, we're going to see that.

Joshua Adams: Love that.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So Will, thank you first of all for sponsoring the sound stage that we have here. Can you introduce yourself and tell us about your companies?

Will Lorenz: Sure. Well Heidi, thank you. It was great to be at the auction last night. Helped contribute to fund-

Heidi J. Ellsworth: We bought your package.

Will Lorenz: Yeah. And we helped also contribute to fund one of the student things.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes, you did.

Will Lorenz: So that was great too.

Kris Hitesman: Thank you.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Thank you.

Will Lorenz: Such a great cause. Just glad to be a part of it. My name is Will Lorenz. I'm with General Coatings, I'm President of it. We manufacture spray foam and roof coatings. We did this recently, this domed thing and put spray foam and roof coatings on it here in Las Vegas. So pretty excited about that and just glad to be here.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It's so fun. I've just got to say, people outside of roofing wonder what we do in our lives, but when we talk to them, they're like, "Do you see that dome in Las Vegas? We know how it was roofed. We know the spray foam on there." So it's always fun to be able to talk about that.

Will Lorenz: It's great when the roofing industry does things that are memorable, iconic things that we could all be proud of. There are homes and schools, we're glad to do those things, but do things that people see. If like you did the roof here at the Paris, that would be pretty iconic too. Everybody knows it from afar.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And everything needs a roof.

Will Lorenz: Everything needs a roof. It sounds like-

Heidi J. Ellsworth: everything needs a roof.

Will Lorenz: Charles Antis kind of line, isn't it?

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, I know. Everything needs a roof.

Joshua Adams: Absolutely. Keeping family safe and dry. Yeah, that's Charles's line. Yeah.

Will Lorenz: There you go, Charles. A plug for you.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: There you go Charles, right there.

Joshua Adams: Yeah, exactly.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So Will, how is the show going so far? I mean, I can't believe, so we are in the back corner of the show, which I always think, well, it's going to take a while to get people there. It has been packed. It's has been packed. How's it at your booth and what are you seeing?

Will Lorenz: Oh, we're seeing lots of people. We've got people from Texas, we've got people from Hawaii, we've got people from all over California and Las Vegas. So a lot of people have made it here. The conversations are good, they're interested in new things, they're interested in innovation. They want to find better solutions for their customers. So it's been really good conversations and a lot of scans, so we're real happy.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I heard that same thing, a lot of scans. I was talking to some folks out there. I have to tell you, I think what has already happened, this show, I mean even before the show floor opened, has been spectacular. I think Western State's, the board, the staff have just done a spectacular job. What do you think? I mean, starting Saturday night with everything?

Stephanie Baird: I thought it was amazing. It was so cool to see the past presidents all in a room together, especially number one and number two. I mean, yeah, I was in awe of them. I was in awe seeing them at the legislative lunch today, so I think it's been fantastic. I think all bells were out in celebration of the 50th year. I think it's been amazing.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It is really. When I think about the events and then the auction last night was so good. So Kris, this has to be such a busy time for you as you are going to be chair of Western or President next year. How's it been for you so far?

Kris Hitesman: It's a little bit nerve wracking, but having the dinner that we had on Saturday night to honor all the past presidents made me really feel like that I am not alone. That my insecurities and everything else has been felt by all the past presidents. And so it's helped calm my nerves and I am so excited for what's coming up.

Joshua Adams: And you're part of a legacy.

Kris Hitesman: Right. Exactly.

Joshua Adams: That's pretty cool.

Kris Hitesman: I'll be number five woman. Yeah.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah.

Joshua Adams: Yeah, that's a huge deal. That is a huge deal.

Kris Hitesman: I am so honored. And we're on track for a record year for attendance.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's what I've heard.

Joshua Adams: Wow.

Kris Hitesman: We've hit over 4,000 already.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh my gosh.

Joshua Adams: Wow.

Kris Hitesman: Yes. So we're on track.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: This show is so popular.

Stephanie Baird: You can tell.

Kris Hitesman: Yes.

Stephanie Baird: Look how busy it is.

Kris Hitesman: It's so busy.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I know.

Stephanie Baird: Yeah, so busy. I know.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It's great. But it's needed. This time of year I think is the perfect time. And I know Western States, it's been a challenge since Covid to get the right hotels and get past everything that was going on and stuff. And when the board moved it to October, I just think or September, I should say September-October, I think what a great move because everybody's working on getting ready for next year.

Joshua Adams: I agree.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And now they get to come to this trade show and see all this new technology.

Joshua Adams: And the kids go back to school during this time. It just is a much different thing versus the original one I went to, it was at the old date and this was my first ever trade show as a contractor and I loved it. It's what introduced me to the whole world. And I met friends that I still talk to 10 years later, which is pretty cool. And everybody always has a good vibe. Everyone's excited, happy. It's cool.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Now tomorrow you're going to be speaking on a panel for Ricking Technology Think Tank.

Joshua Adams: Yes. With RT3. Yes, absolutely.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes. What do you see happening at the show and just everywhere around technology and I mean, it's just exploding with the need from contractors?

Joshua Adams: Yeah, so I think it's interesting. I think it's been a slow graph that is now starting to hit an exponential growth curve because with anything that's newly adapted, whether it's in roofing or any industry, you'll have the first entrance people that lay the groundwork to get guys comfortable.

To me, that would be Eagle View. They're coming in and saying, "Hey, let's do this new." Back in 2013, it was very revolutionary. So then you're getting comfortable and you're getting less of the opposition to that. And I think that was what started the trend into, and then as you have more companies fill out the space and you have proposal softwares and CRMs. I mean, five years ago if you would've talked to one out of... I bet you maybe one out of 10 contractors, maybe one out of five had a CRM. I don't know what you guys think, but most people, that wasn't an everyday thing and now that's pretty common. So that's going to be able to feed data in order to make other programs that build off CRMs. So it's like, yeah. But you know, yeah.

Kris Hitesman: We actually don't use the CRM, but it's something that I'm looking into.

Joshua Adams: What is your need for it?

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Here it is a choice.

Joshua Adams: I mean, is it something that you find-

Kris Hitesman: We basically do new commercial roofing.

Joshua Adams: That's a lot different.

Kris Hitesman: So we are in a different area, but as I'm looking to expand our business, I realized that there's a need for it. And so that's something I need to look into.

Joshua Adams: I think it's good for operations, but it's good just for your own data insights. I feel like that's what really made me take it seriously is saying, okay, we can actually take our CRM data and then make models to predict better sales outcomes all around, let alone how to better serve the customer, what went wrong anywhere from manufacturing to salesmanship. I think there's a lot of really good stuff to pull. But it's like finding your way through the hype of some things because it's like you have people that are doing it that hype it at a hundred and then you're finding value somewhere in the mid-eighties. That's still great, it doesn't need to be revolutionary, but if it helps you save some time where you can spend a little more time at home versus at work, that's nice.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Well, and you know, it really-

Will Lorenz: Or take care of your customers better, I think.

Joshua Adams: That's the main thing. It's like how can you make the customer feel better about their huge project?

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. So one of the things that the board is, we've been talking about and this actually came out of the last board meeting, was it's good to have the tried-and-true classes, but we need to do newer, we also need to push it. And so that's why the RT3 meeting tomorrow came about is because people are looking for CRMs. They're looking on the roof, what are they going to do? Robotics and different things. So I mean, as you are looking around, Stephanie, as you're looking around the show floor and just kind of talking, what kind of technologies, what kind of things are you looking for here?

Stephanie Baird: Well, the CRMs and the AI stuff right now and to go back on the CRM conversation, I feel like it's super important not just at the customer level and the employer level, but at the installer level. All of our installers have access to their CRM, they're designated to their own job. We have real-time photos, and so I can see problems and damages. If there's an issue, they can tell, "Oh, this wasn't the right color. My worksheet says this, but you delivered this" and they can see it. So I think it's beneficial.

Joshua Adams: And those are tried-and-true problems for every contractor and every market in the whole country. I talk to guys everywhere and it's like, "What happens? Wrong color, the PO doesn't match what's delivered." All of those general housekeeping things. But it's like what we did with my CRM data from my contracting company is we use that as the foundation to build what we're doing with Roof Scout. So we said, "Hey, these are all the ways that our customers, 4,400 intakes over seven years did. And then let's read that data, build profiles for customers." So what we did is basically said, "Hey, you're four types of customers and every one of you buys in a similar way. Let's try to match our content to that buying style to make that customization happen."

And then people will feel much more inclined to use technology if it's the way they want to buy, which I think that was the real flip switch that even I was talking to Heidi as far as development and going, "Hey, I really want to take and push this customization level. We cannot just be a digital salesman, but how do we actually improve the customer's experience and make it easier and save money to the contractor too?" So I think that's just one of many things you can do with your own data. People can take control of their own data and do their own things with it. You don't have to pay someone else to do that. But I think it's interesting the power that it can have.

Stephanie Baird: Well, I think that's really smart because we actually have two CRMs right now for two different departments at our company and what works well for one, doesn't work well for the other department.

Joshua Adams: That's so true.

Stephanie Baird: And so we are right now building a special one to service all of our departments.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: All of them.

Stephanie Baird: But we have two right now and it's a royal pain in the rear. I mean, it really is.

Joshua Adams: Well, and that's when people get bummed out and then don't do it because it's like you try it and it screws more things up then. If Post-it notes or it's duct tape on the wheels and you're getting there, but at least you know it and it's comfortable. So that's the big leap with people looking for new technologies. They just want to be able to trust it. And I feel like if you do new technology and then it fails, you're hooked and then you want to continue. And I think a lot of people here look into that to say, "Okay, we've done these things. We're not scared of it anymore. This is what we got out of it. This is what we're looking for now." So I think as thought leaders, we just need to make sure we're catching where the overlaps are to try to better serve everybody as best we can. No one's going to be a fit all for everything, but-

Stephanie Baird: Right. Yeah. And we know-

Joshua Adams: But that's what you're saying. That's a big deal. I am using two or three different things to try to patch together our workflow.

Stephanie Baird: Sure. And for those different departments both work well for those departments and we know what we don't like, so that's a great thing.

Joshua Adams: That's cool. That's a good point.
Stephanie Baird: Yeah, we know what we don't like about it. So when we go for this special, when it's being built for us, it's going to be perfect.

Joshua Adams: Perfect.

Stephanie Baird: But the AI is where it's at.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, that's the next step.

Stephanie Baird: Even for us old girls that don't want to admit it, it's where it's at.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It's where it's coming from.

Will Lorenz: It's got to get a little smarter too.

Stephanie Baird: Yeah.

Will Lorenz: Still a little bit off.

Stephanie Baird: Yes.

Will Lorenz: I wouldn't bet the farm on it yet.

Stephanie Baird: Yeah.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It's going to take some time to feed it. It needs to be fed. So okay, I want to switch gears here for a minute and talk a little bit about the economy just because we just had conversations at the luncheon. But Will, not only are you the Western States and you're very with California, but obviously nationally you're selling. What are you seeing and what are some of the things you see coming with the economy or things that contractors should be thinking about?

Will Lorenz: Yeah, I mean I think first of all, we're what? Inside 30 days coming up on the election and so people are stopped sort of paying attention to that. I think we had a distraction that kind of happened in the summer where a lot of people got focused on all of the back and forth of a lot of things, and they weren't focused on their business, because it seemed like there was a bit of a lull for a period. And now there's picked up as people have looked at, they need to get jobs finished, they need to take care of their customers, they need to get roofs done. And so we've seen sort of a pickup in things in the second half of the year where somewhere in the late second quarter it was a bit of a malaise, because everything was about what politics wanted to distract you to.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, I think there's a lot of distraction going on, but what are you seeing in Oregon? Because there was, well to Will's point, at the beginning of the year or mid-year, there was Northwest Pacific, Northwest was kind of slow. Are you still seeing that or what's happening?

Stephanie Baird: It's been a different type of year. It has. Fortunately we've been super busy, which is great, but we don't have the backlog that we have had in years prior. Just like what was mentioned at the legislative lunch. Normally we are at least a month out this time of the year and we're just a couple of weeks, and that's industry-wide. It's just not our company. But there's a lots going on with the politics. People are scared on what to do. Interest rates are still high. There's lots of factoring things.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Do you think with the interest rate that just went down, because I have to tell you, sorry if I get myself in trouble on this, but I hate election years.

Stephanie Baird: Me too.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: They are the worst.

Kris Hitesman: Me too.

Joshua Adams: It's stressful.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Everybody gets distracted and everybody wants to talk about all the bad things about everybody else, and I'm like, just let's do some business.

Joshua Adams: Let's focus on business.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Let's focus on business. So do you think after we get through the elections and with the interest rates coming down, is there any talk through of, "Yeah, we're looking great for next year?" Or is there still that hesitancy even going into next year?

Stephanie Baird: I think there's still going to be a hesitancy going into next year. I think however the election comes out, 50% of us are going to be mad. And so-

Joshua Adams: Right. That's about split down the middle.

Stephanie Baird: I am serious. Yeah, I think there's still going to be some hesitancy, but I am hopeful that come spring of 2025. Everything is back on track by then and we're prosperous for next year.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Ready to go.

Stephanie Baird: We're going to be ready to go.

Kris Hitesman: I'm ready.

Stephanie Baird: You're ready now?

Kris Hitesman: I'm ready, yes.

Stephanie Baird: What are you seeing in Utah?

Kris Hitesman: Utah is typically a little bit behind the rest of them, so we have, our backlog is just a little bit smaller than it normally is, so that's been a good thing. We've been real busy. We've been able to keep a backlog, but I am a little worried about what's going to happen. I try not to think about it because it just gives me too much anxiety.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, just do business.

Joshua Adams: Are you guys seeing financing?

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I just do business.

Joshua Adams: How has financing changed at all?

Kris Hitesman: So for us, we do large commercial projects and I've seen a couple of building owners that were going to build a building and then they were pulling back a little bit and then they were like, "No, let's go ahead." So I mean, we had a project that one contractor pulled out after three buildings and now they do want do the other two.

Joshua Adams: Good. Good.

Kris Hitesman: So I do see things kind of picking up there, which is a good thing.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It seems like there's still demand, especially-

Kris Hitesman: Yes, there is.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: ... I mean, Utah has such huge growth and we're still seeing a lot of cranes in all the cities, but yeah, it's like this right now.

Kris Hitesman: It is.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It's a little wobbly. What are you seeing, Josh, as you're working with contractors?

Joshua Adams: I think people, it's definitely slowed down this year. I think people are pulling back after a really heavy spin through the pandemic. I mean, we've been on a wild four-year ride, everybody in the industry. It's like you had everyone stuck at home, everyone's wanting to remodel.

We had everyone's buying up homes, lots of transactions. And I'm pretty, I guess, tuned in on the real estate side. So I hear little fumblings here and there, and they were just running ragged. So I think now we're feeling it might not be as much of a lull as we feeling because it's been such a ramped up high. That's kind of what people are starting to adjust to. They're like, "Hey, it's lower. But also maybe we've just been on such a big bubble that coming back down a little bit feels low, but maybe it's not as bad as we think. So I think people-

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Maybe it's the new normal?

Joshua Adams: Yeah, I think people are settling into the fact that with what you said, election year, people aren't running to do home improvements as much as they were two summers ago. But I think the economy is still strong in that way, people are just wanting to get those points down a little bit.

And then they'll feel better about saying, "Hey, I can live with that rate. I know you're going to dial up my loan for four more years to get me monthly where I want to be." But people are trying to be consumers and educate themselves and not just sign up for a loan because they can get the monthly where they need and then all of a sudden it's double the time. So I think a lot of creative financing, which is always kind of odd when things happen like that where the general public needs to make sure they stay educated about financing ins and outs. I think that's important and a really good area for education, to be honest.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That sounds like something for Ask A Roofer.

Will Lorenz: Yeah.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Okay.

Will Lorenz: I think there's two points there. One, I think there's been a lot of federal money that's been put in the system. And so what's going to happen next year is whether or not there's going to continue because a lot of projects got funded under various programs over the last four or even eight years. And whether they continue that can have an effect on the economy. But I think businesses as a whole are trying to rapidly move forward, but they're looking at things and trying to determine, "Well, what can I predict out of my customer?" And there's a level of that, as you said, Kris, a little bit of uncertainty all the way up and down, whether or not everyone's going to build that next building, but they all seem to want to. It's just a little bit of hesitation.

Kris Hitesman: Yes, yes. No, we do a lot of work for one certain convenience store and they haven't slowed down in building new stores or remodeling. So that's really hopeful.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Well, and you're kind of making me think because one of the things we talk about when we are going into possibly a little softening in the economy is the importance of diversifying your business. Which is what you were kind of talking about, Kris. So maybe we start there is knowing that not being in different segments. Maybe multifamily is going faster and new construction is going slower or remodeling and stuff like that. What are you finding on that?

Kris Hitesman: In Utah, generally it's people kind of stick to one market. I am deciding that I want to try and venture out, and try residential and do some different things, because I am concerned about what's going to happen. And you do see there are changes, and changes are happening and I'm not afraid to look into just doing something different.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right. It's kind of diversifying your portfolio on the stock market. Right?

Joshua Adams: Absolutely.

Kris Hitesman: You got it.

Joshua Adams: Or however they do that, it's kind of the same way in your business. I mean, what are you seeing? And as in new trends, you stay up on that so much. I mean, there's stuff going on out there with solar. There's new, I want to talk about spray foam, different things that are going. What are some of the things that you're seeing coming along that are going to help your business?

Stephanie Baird: The solar is where it's at. I mean, even in Oregon with all of our rain, people are talking about solar. And five years ago I would've said "Solar? They ruined my roof." But now, no. I mean, no, seriously.

Joshua Adams: You're accurate.

Stephanie Baird: Yeah, technology has changed. There's different products out there. I think that's great. Solar is where it's at. I think multifamily in my region is where it's at too. On the new construction side and on the re-roof side. There's so much of multifamily being built or being redone trying to have affordable housing in the Portland area. So I think that's where it's at.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And that's part of it I keep seeing is that we don't have enough housing. So one way or the other that is going to be forced at some point to have to happen. And we all need roofs.

Yep. Everybody needs a roof at some time. Yeah, sometimes.

Joshua Adams: Well, I think it's interesting to overlay everything economical, the pandemic and then you also have to think we had such a mass exodus and redistribution of populations to different areas that that's a huge interesting thing because that just rearranged everybody. You're like, holy cow. Which is kind of interesting, but it's also hold onto your hats because where are you going to live? I mean, in Boise alone, I mean rents and property values. I mean, we doubled from since 2020 for an average. What are you guys? What's your apparent maintenance? Because as a contractor with me, I mean I would say some years that was 20% of our... I mean, we had a big, big maintenance repair business out of just coming out. Nobody would want to go out and do anything. Chimneys. I mean in Oregon it's like we have ice dams, all of those things. I don't know about the southern states. We would do a lot of repair business in Idaho big time.

Kris Hitesman: We do a lot of repair work up in Idaho as well. And I've seen a lot more up there.

Joshua Adams: It's wild.

Kris Hitesman: It is absolutely crazy. And some of those building owners aren't willing to spend money on redoing their roofs either, which is very interesting. They just want to keep maintaining and maintaining and we're like, this roof is shot.

Joshua Adams: We worked with the Boise code department actually, I don't know? Six, seven years ago. It was not a requirement to have waterproofing from the actual building code. And so based on a bunch of builders that came in, and you have chimneys that have no vertical waterproofing. So it's like that's only been in the last five years, which is pretty wild. But a lot of repair, a lot of siding, interaction, flashing repairs and that's a big money and big business if you're diversified.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: To that point. On Coatings Coffee Shop, we are having so many webinars on roof restoration, on service and maintenance. And I have to tell you, every time it's huge numbers of people coming in. And I'll be a hundred percent honest, I'm kind of like, there's no way anybody wants to hear about roof restoration one more time. Nothing personal will, but you know what they do. Everybody does. It is so popular right now. What are you seeing to that point with service and maintenance and roof restorations?

Will Lorenz: Well, I think we brought about the big picture, which is the cost of capital's high and the building codes have gone up quite a bit in the last five years. And so when you're going to reroof or do something, you're asked to spend a lot more than what you had expected to spend five years ago. So that causes some people to consider what can I do to keep myself waterproof and what can be done to repair these other areas because they want to spend money maybe inside their facility, not necessarily on the top of their plant. They're trying to spend money on their CRM system.

They're trying to spend money on other things.

Joshua Adams: Building custom CRM systems.

Will Lorenz: Yeah. So roof coatings we've seen grow quite a bit and is a really good alternative. A lot of membranes are getting to the end of service lives. If they've got R20 and they've got to come back and put R30 or R38, they've got to look at tearing it off and starting over completely. And that's just a bigger lift for everybody. And people are saying, well, not yet. There'll be a point in time and spray foam and roof coatings are great alternatives for that where you can overlay or you can recover a system, restore a system and keep it going. On the low slope side, there's good alternatives there.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Talk a little bit about California. California and the energy requirements, the building codes building, I mean, talk about spray foam and just what is happening there. We had such an interesting panel at the Spray Foam Show this last year talking about those changes.

Will Lorenz: So what I would say is in general, California tries to lead the way with energy efficiency. So the building codes keep going up and that helps. I think starting in '25, a recover system has to be a minimum continuous insulation of R14 on the outside.

Joshua Adams: What's it at now?

Will Lorenz: It's at R10 and two years ago it wasn't anything.

Joshua Adams: Wow.

Will Lorenz: So it's jumping up. And so that means people are going to have to invest more in their facilities. Then obviously like you go to Boston area now, I think it's R60 is some of the stuff, is the requirement of insulation up there. That becomes quite a thick roof that you're having to put on regardless.

Joshua Adams: Is that combat ice damming basically? Not to have the heat transfer through?

Will Lorenz: No, that's energy efficiency.

Joshua Adams: Just energy?

Will Lorenz: They want to reduce climate change goals. They want to improve the ability to have fossil fuels be reduced in some of those areas. In California, spray foam is a great alternative. There's a lot of big buildings that we're doing with roofs that have an existing roof on it, and then you can put a roof system on top of it with spray foam, watertight it, add additional insulation, so you can meet all those requirements on the outside. So it's positive, but I'll just tell you, I think new construction has had the fortune of a lot of what I call federal money and if that continues, we're going to see a lot of investment and growth. But if it doesn't, people are going to look and act conservatively in their businesses. And they'll look at what alternatives you folks can provide them that makes sense cost effectively.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, and it's changing. I mean, when we were talking about technology, we were talking about software, but really what we're starting to see is even new technologies on the roofing systems on how to install those roofing systems because of the labor shortage. So this kind of brings me to that, what we're seeing, not just with the labor shortage because I mean stats just came out that actually unemployment went up a little bit I think just recently, but are we still kind of seeing some of those labor shortages? Josh, let's start with you. I mean, just what do think?

Joshua Adams: Not as standout. I mean, I think it just depends what part of the labor force, I mean general employees, people specifically in roofing. I mean, I think in our industry, people see the path as do good work for a specific larger contractor. And then I don't know why everyone wants to default to becoming on their own or being a non-W-II employee. So I guess it just depends. There's a lot of different answers. I mean, I think the guys that are doing it great, they want to seem to have a cut of the pie and to do it themselves. So it's like, I think that's the biggest thing we fight as contractors in the industry is we want to pour out and make good employees and train people and have them love our brand. And then sometimes when they're good, no matter how great of a job you've done of making them invest in you, sometimes they get the bug and sometimes they come back and you guys probably have the same thing.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Kris, you smiled there.

Kris Hitesman: I'm laughing because several years ago, I mean it's kind of a mix of all of what they're talking about is, several years ago, Utah roofing contractors or, well, actually all subcontractors besides HVAC, plumbing and electricians were deregulated. You don't have to take a test.

Joshua Adams: Wow.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow.

Kris Hitesman: You don't have to have experience anymore to have a roofing license in Utah. So last month we found two buildings that we were called to go look at that were installed incorrectly.

Joshua Adams: And what systems were they a TPO?

Kris Hitesman: It was a single-ply TPO roof.

Joshua Adams: Okay. Yeah. Oh, yes.

Kris Hitesman: And so these building owners that install these roofs within five to seven years ago are now stuck with a roof that is not up to specifications or anything else. And so now they're stuck with this huge repair bill or to replace the roof and what are they going to do?
Joshua Adams: And if it's fasteners that can be dangerous. With the wind, it's like-

Kris Hitesman: They ran the material up. They didn't do a wall flashing or anything.

Joshua Adams: Oh, yikes.

Kris Hitesman: They just ran the field up the wall, which is not correct.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Not.

Kris Hitesman: And this was literally within two weeks of each other. We found two roofs installed exactly the same.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Well, and that's what McKay was talking about with the subcontractor network. And I'm not going to say this is with all subcontractors, but if you're not getting licensing or training-

Kris Hitesman: If you're not getting licensed or getting approved or whatever, that's causing problems. And then to add onto that is I don't think that they're having the... I mean, we've just had a large job hit the last two weekends with theft and so they don't have the money to purchase materials and so that's going to rise, make the rest of it rise as well.

Joshua Adams: Yeah. That's a good point.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So you're involved with the Utah, Roofing Contractors Association?

Kris Hitesman: Yes.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Are you looking at, and this will take us into our next topic in Roofing Day in Utah, are these things going be, are you doing advocacy for changing this back?

Kris Hitesman: Yes, we are. It bothers me because it gives a lot of roofers a bad name. And we need to change that.

Joshua Adams: How do you go about doing something like that?

Kris Hitesman: Actually, I talked to somebody with the AGC. I recently found out why they did it. I was talking with somebody with the AGC, Associated General Contractors and then another attorney who was actually involved with the state licensing board. And so I'm planning on meeting with them a little further to try and figure out what we can do to change to fix this again, because it's not a great situation. And then I think of the other states that don't have any licensing requirements.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, Texas, nothing.

Kris Hitesman: Colorado has nothing.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Nothing. Yeah.

Joshua Adams: Yeah. Colorado's just registration by-

Stephanie Baird: We have licensing.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, we have licensing.

Stephanie Baird: We have licensing.

Joshua Adams: Oregon has big licensing.

Stephanie Baird: We have big licensing.

Joshua Adams: So to that point, you were active, very active. Right now, Oregon does not have a Roofing Day as of yet, but you have been spending a lot of time on legislation in Oregon. Tell us a little bit about that.

Stephanie Baird: Lots of legislative stuff in Oregon. The emergency Senate Bill 592 and 927 were passed January of this year, which increased OSHA citations 1100%. So yeah, it's insane. And I have these-

Joshua Adams: Like their task force?

Stephanie Baird: No, just they had to follow Fed OSHA and increase their citation fines. And so I have some facts for this too. Last year alone, for a 12-month calendar year, the repeat offenses brought in a $900,000 worth of citation money. This year in a nine-month period, they are $3.5 million, so that's how much it went up.

Joshua Adams: Holy moly.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow.

Stephanie Baird: So yeah, that's a big struggle for roofing contractors in the Oregon area. It is weeding out some of our people that aren't the tenured companies, and I'm not going to say that's good or bad. We've been around for 55 years. We know what the tie-off rules are. We participate in it, but it's been a real struggle for contractors in the Oregon area.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It really comes back to how important training is and safety training-

Joshua Adams: Safety ordering.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And documenting it. And the culture, yeah.

Stephanie Baird: And the culture. Yeah, it has.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow. Now, well, you're involved a lot both on the NRCA level with roof pack and-

Will Lorenz: Government affairs, yeah.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Government affairs, and also within California and Western states. What are some of the things you're seeing right now that is really on an advocacy level?

Will Lorenz: Well, obviously, I think we're all trying to get greater funding for the roofing industry for employees to be able to learn the skills to be successful, to get more qualified workers to be able to do things. I think that's very important. We're always looking at certain issues that kind of pop up on a federal level or a state level that seem to be excessive or things that go beyond what I'd say quality and safety and get government interference into the roofing business. They're the best of intentions, but they end up sometimes with the worst of practices that they impose upon us.

I always hate the idea that they're hiring more IRS agents. I kind of think all of us are probably paying our taxes. Well, there's somebody up at the top maybe they should be working on, but the rest of us, they shouldn't be so hard on. So I think from a government affairs perspective, I think we're looking at just trying to get good qualified workers so business can kind of catch up and keep growing with the opportunities if America keeps investing in itself. And it looks like on a federal level, I mean, there's tons of plants that are being put up with regard to chip plants and all the things, so we can be back a leader in the AI business and a leader in innovation and efficiency.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, James Ellsworth is on with you on the government affairs. He lives and breathes this stuff. So he's probably hopefully watching and saying yes, all these things that they're working on. But I think when it comes... The thing I've noticed in the western states is the state associations have really kind of taken on a lot of this where they are... I mean, they've always been active, but I know I'm thinking about Montana just did a Roofing Day in Helena. We have roofing days now in Washington where you never heard about Roofing Days going to the capitol, right? And it's happening now all over now. Now, are you guys putting something together?

Kris Hitesman: We haven't yet, but we are thinking about it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah.

Joshua Adams: And what does that entail?

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah.

Kris Hitesman: I haven't been to one yet, so I don't know. But we are thinking about it.

Will Lorenz: Well, it's really getting the roofing organization together, whether it's locally or nationally, going in and seeing your legislators, making them aware of your presence, size of your business, your importance and what your issues are.

Joshua Adams: We're a big cog in the economy. I mean, the industry does a lot for a lot of levels of everything. Industry, distribution, I mean it's big business.

Will Lorenz: Yeah. Well, I would say that Reed would say that we were one of the quiet voices when he came and took over NRCA before he since retired. But McKay is a believer that we have to have a louder voice because to some extent, the squeaky wheel gets whatever it is they want.

Joshua Adams: Agreed.

Will Lorenz: They get the funding or they get the manpower, and we got to have our voice there because everybody else is there in government asking for something.

Joshua Adams: That's a great point you brought up, and I was talking to Heidi about this earlier. Even the America Seed Fund right now is a big role that's a lot of people have never heard of. So it's good to bring it up on stuff like this to bring awareness, but we're working with them to get money and secure money for AI roofing. So it's like there's programs and things out there that people really need to go to the resources. We should post resources that are just on things that people don't know about, because it's like there's things even that are not in technology that the money's never claimed because no one knows about it. And that's kind of a sad deal. So it's like, I think for the people that are looking to grow and grow their business and be sustainable, they should be able to at least have the opportunity to learn about it and then see if it's a fit.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Okay, new thing on the Coffee Shop, we're going to start getting those resources out there. I like that.

Joshua Adams: That's a cool way to help people because it's free money.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: When you think about the grants that are out there for training and Perkins and all of that too, getting more information so the contractors can get the training, can recruit and do all those things. And just talking about it. Stephanie and I were talking about, I said this year, I said, "Stephanie, are you going to go to Roofing Day in DC and we can go talk to our Oregon legislators?" And she's like, "Not this year, but next year." So I'm looking forward to it next year.

Joshua Adams: I want to go too. I saw Charles go to that on LinkedIn.

Kris Hitesman: Me too.

Stephanie Baird: You too.

Will Lorenz: Yeah, I think I've been going five or six years straight.

Joshua Adams: Really?

Will Lorenz: Yeah.

Joshua Adams: I'll have to go with you guys. That'd be fun. That'd great.

Kris Hitesman: I want to go.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: You want to go?

Kris Hitesman: I want to go. I need to go.

Stephanie Baird: I want to go too. I have never been either.

Joshua Adams: Let's think about we can go to Lincoln Memorial and get a photo.

Kris Hitesman: That would be cool.

Joshua Adams: The selfie opportunities? That could be huge.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh, there you go. Okay, I'm in. I'm in.

Stephanie Baird: That's it.

Will Lorenz: Well, I also say that you also need to participate at your local level because your a congresswoman, your congressman, your senators, they'll all see you at their local facility or local things. When you get to Washington, we come in as a group, but if they know you a little bit before you get there or you're a supporter of them, then your leverage is a little bit more.

Joshua Adams: The local level is huge. Yeah. If you show up and see, I mean, there's things they can help you with that they would never maybe even share if they never saw your face.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Or if you have them out to your company. We've talked about doing that, trying to get National Roofing more involved. It hasn't happened yet. We've talked to Rachel about how do we have people get to know their legislators or know these roofing companies? Go visit these roofing companies? So yeah, there's a lot out there that I think we need to even just talking about it and putting it together. But I want to make sure, because there's a couple of things I want to really make sure I get to. And one of them is Western States Roofing Contractors Association and what it's doing for the industry and also what are some of the initiatives. So Kris, can you kind of share some of that?

Kris Hitesman: I love Western States Roofing Contractors Association. When I became involved about eight, nine years ago, I didn't know what I was in for, but I can tell you that the technical information that they put out is top-notch. We also have a legal advisor who is amazing.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes.

Kris Hitesman: Amazing. I cannot tell you how many times I've needed his help with a contract review, with helping me with other weird installation issues. And he deals with roofing contractors across the nation. So he is experienced in so many problems, whereas other attorneys know nothing.

Joshua Adams: Because he's probably seen some weird thing in New Jersey, wherever.

Kris Hitesman: He has. And he also is there to protect the organization as well.

Joshua Adams: That's great.

Kris Hitesman: He knows about things that are coming up. Trent is so amazing.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Trent Cotney.

Kris Hitesman: Trent Cotney.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Adams and Reese. [inaudible 00:43:44] We all love him.

Kris Hitesman: Then we have Steven Zasadil with our safety app. I was involved in getting him involved with Western States, and the safety portion that he's done is amazing. We love the app. We love the toolbox talks that come out every week in English and in Spanish, and that leads me into my initiatives and my goals for this year.

Joshua Adams: Yes. Let's hear them.

Kris Hitesman: I am really wanting to get everything translated into Spanish.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yay.

Stephanie Baird: Yes.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: We've been talking about it for two years. Yay!

Stephanie Baird: We're going to get this done. We're going to get it done.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes, we're going to get it done.

Joshua Adams: We're doing everything with Scout. We're doing both in English and in Spanish also.

Kris Hitesman: It needs to be done.

Joshua Adams: And yeah, I've got some pretty cool tech that can automatically subscribe. So yeah, we should link up.

Kris Hitesman: We need to talk. No, as I've noticed a change in my workforce, we used to have more English than Spanish workforce and now it's switched. I mean, I even have a bilingual person in my office.

Joshua Adams: Now you have to.

Kris Hitesman: I have to, because I can't talk to them. And it's so frustrating for me because I don't speak Spanish, and if I have the time after working 60 or 80 hours a week, I'd go learn Spanish. But I don't have the time, and that is basically inclusivity.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right.

Joshua Adams: It really is.

Kris Hitesman: It's inclusivity of Spanish-speaking people because they are so important in our industry.

Joshua Adams: And they're a proud industry like Cornerstone.

Kris Hitesman: And they work harder than anybody else know.

Stephanie Baird: They're instrumental to all of our companies.

Joshua Adams: They are. Yeah.

Kris Hitesman: They are. Yes.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It's so true. We are actually next weekend going to Contra Dista Exposition, which is part of the National Association of Hispanic Contractors. And we have a whole new navigation. We've had Spanish on the site. We've been translated for many years, but we are now taking it to the very top of the navigation. And we are going to have lunch and Learns and podcasts because of this topic that we have to be inclusive to be able to understand. And I've watched YouTube both with the app, the safety app and how hard you've worked on it and to have everything go into Spanish and being inclusive, inviting them, membership, right?

Kris Hitesman: Yes.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: For everyone to feel comfortable, to be part of the associations and to know that they're going to be heard.

Joshua Adams: When their visibility goes up, the ownership goes up. That's a huge thing that people overlook. If people feel represented, the ownership in the larger collective goes up as well, which helps everyone. That's just a general trend up.

Will Lorenz: Well, I think it's also the American dream. Everybody who's come here-

Joshua Adams: A hundred percent.

Will Lorenz: ... they start off at one tier working and then they want to be an owner. They want to have their own business. It's just a natural progression, what everybody wants to do. And so you just got to embrace that and be excited for people, help them teach, learn and grow. But I also think our roofing business is a visual learner thing. They didn't go and want to be in the textbook business.

So, I also encourage people, pictures and video and things are very important because I think people, these are hands-on folks.

Joshua Adams: They're industrial.

Will Lorenz: So if they can see it, they can do it.

Kris Hitesman: Even people that are producing safety videos or something, they need to produce them in English and Spanish because that's-

Joshua Adams: Not to plug Scott again, but that's what we're also doing.

Kris Hitesman: Okay. Thank you. Because no, we try so hard.

Joshua Adams: It's safety and doing safety instruction videos. Once you have animation and it is, and you can put a character and have any language you can teach and make that available to anyone.

Stephanie Baird: And in Steven's app, remember when it went to Spanish last year, that was instrumental in that. So yeah, because-

Kris Hitesman: Because even my timekeeping app that I use, not to plug another app, but they have the capability-

Joshua Adams: It's not sponsored. We have to wink at the camera, not sponsored.

Kris Hitesman: ... I can switch. I could change that from English to Spanish. So the app goes to Spanish for them.

Stephanie Baird: So they understand what they're submitting.

Kris Hitesman: So they understand. Yeah.

Stephanie Baird: So, there's no reason for somebody to do a job site inspection form when you don't understand what you're saying. So yeah, it's important.

Joshua Adams: Great point.

Stephanie Baird: Yeah, it's important.

Joshua Adams: Sorry, not to sideline, but mentorship, because he talked about it. Guys, where are you at with mentorship? Like he was talking about hands-on learning visual things, it's like, I mean, I'm second generation. My dad taught me what I knew and then built in, but I feel like there's a pretty big lack of true mentorship and how the trades classically developed. And I think that's an interesting topic.

Kris Hitesman: Amen.

Joshua Adams: Yeah.

Kris Hitesman: I'm third generation and I believe in people need to be trained, have education, because they need to learn in leadership and communication because if not, we're just going to fail. We've been implementing some things in our business with communication skills and teaching, and I want them to start learning more because my foreman will complain that somebody doesn't know how to do something. I was like, "Well, how are you teaching them? How are you teaching them? How do we get that help to them?"

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right. And the thing that I love is there are training, there is training out there. I think of the RCMA, Roof Coating Manufacturers Association have online courses and I don't think they're in Spanish yet, English right now, but that's what we see to this point. We see so much training out there, but it's not brought together. You have to go actively looking for it where we are trying to bring all that together.

Kris Hitesman: Exactly. Recently I've been asking different manufacturers about their mobile training. What do they have? And I get them scheduled and come out to our yard and do a training.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes, yes.

Kris Hitesman: And they have a lot of bilingual trainers, which is so important.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I tell you, so we started this conversation with what are the trends? And this is the trend right here. Bilingual training and the inclusivity of our beautiful Hispanic culture into roofing to really shine. I think you guys have hit it. And Western States is there on the forefront.

Kris Hitesman: Well, you think about the statistics that McKay said during... About the unemployment employment of non-American-born has gone up where American-born has gone down. My opinion of it-

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Go ahead.

Kris Hitesman: It's because the people here in America, they don't want to do the hard work. They don't want to do it. I see it day after day. People are like, "Oh, I'll come get a job." But then they don't want to work every day.

Joshua Adams: Well, and I think doesn't that a little bit tie back in? Not always, but a little bit ties back into that ownership and the representation. I feel like a little bit of that kind of lackadaisical lack of ownership sometimes comes from lack of visibility. Not for everything. It's not a fix-all. There's definitely a problem with people wanting to work hard in certain areas. But yeah, I think it's interesting.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I think-

Joshua Adams: It's multifaceted at least.

Kris Hitesman: Oh, yes.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: We've had a whole generation too, and we all talked about this and there's one thing we didn't quite get to, but with CTE, Career Technical, when I was in high school a long time ago, we had shop class. I mean we had shop class, everybody was building houses. The shop class would be building all these different things. And that all went away because we became this, everyone has to go to college and that was the trap. So we almost have a lost generation.

Stephanie Baird: I agree. I think you just hit it.

Kris Hitesman: Absolutely.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, because that was your option, is you were to go to college and that we lost out on the trades. And that's a huge reason why there's not as many skilled workers in the trades right now is because it wasn't an option for them. And not everybody does want to go to college. Not everybody's going to be a great college student. Not everybody wants to do-

Joshua Adams: Nor should they need to be.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Not everybody wants to do that type of career, where everybody's always going to need the trades. When Covid shut down, who was essential workers? We were. The trades were. We were essential workers because we're needed. And you can make a great career and a great amount of money doing what we do, and it needs to be broadcasted and as an option, so I think it's important. Yeah, and the onboarding of that, I feel is the piece that's missing. People forget, they don't talk about it.

Joshua Adams: Great point.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It's the onboarding of bringing them into-

Joshua Adams: That's a great point.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: ... our industry or the construction industry. I think that's the missing link.

Joshua Adams: Walt's doing the Grow the Trades Initiative, that's kind of shadowing a lot of the stuff that we're talking about and that's just kind of the start of what I think a lot of industries could do to help grow the trades. What you're saying though, it's the onboarding. Where do you get in? What does the path look like? Is that a corporate path? Am I going to be picking up PCAPs out of the gutter, my whole, what does this look like? And I think that's interesting.

Stephanie Baird: And what can it look like in the future?

Joshua Adams: Correct.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right.

Stephanie Baird: That's the thing.

Joshua Adams: I'm here now, but paint me a picture of optimism.

Stephanie Baird: It's the onboarding, it's missing. It is. It's the missing link.

Joshua Adams: You got it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And the inclusivity. Once it's there, feeling like you're part of a team and that you're respected and you've been trained and you go home safe-

Kris Hitesman: Yes, yes.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: ... every evening to your family.

Joshua Adams: Effectively be together. Everybody likes to be together.

Stephanie Baird: And to be part of something. Everybody wants to be part of something and feel self-worth. I think that's super important.

Joshua Adams: So well said.

Kris Hitesman: I honestly feel, once people get into roofing, once they are part of these associations, once they're a part of things, they do feel like a part of a family, but sometimes we've been our worst enemies of the best-kept secret of this industry. And that's changing. I see that changing through the associations where we're actually getting out there and saying, roofing is respectable. Roofing respect, baby. That's what we have.

Joshua Adams: I mean, we can all sit here and agree that Heidi, you're the leader in that kind of, I mean-

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Absolutely.

Kris Hitesman: We love roofing respect.

Joshua Adams: You're the pioneer in that.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Well, in the 30 years that I've been in the roofing industry, I am just amazed by how it has changed. Because when I first got into the roofing industry, it wasn't a respected industry. And now it is. If it was that easy for you to roof your house, you'd do it yourself and you'd save 20 to $50,000. You would, you'd do it yourself. It's not easy. I feel like the roofing industry is respected now. Roofing respect.

Kris Hitesman: Roofing respect.

Joshua Adams: I think so, too. Hashtag roofing respect.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Look up to your roofers.

Will Lorenz: I think it's also gotten more complex. That's the other thing.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes, I agree.

Will Lorenz: The skill sets required is a lot higher.

Kris Hitesman: Absolutely.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yep, I agree.

Will Lorenz: But I think there's also one point that needs get said here, which is the young people come in their attention spans, their methodology of learning is different than it's been in the past and that's because of social media and so forth. And so I really emphasize the point that we need to have visual things. We need to have a short content so people can grasp it from a repetitive standpoint. Because sitting down at a textbook or sitting down and learning something for a year or five years, that's not going to happen. When all of us want to repair something, we go to YouTube, we look up and say, "Oh, now I need to have that screwdriver. Oh, I need to do this." And so we all-

Kris Hitesman: Makes us more hands on.

Will Lorenz: Yes. We definitely need it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: More hands on.

Kris Hitesman: If your hands aren't touching it, you're not doing it.

Will Lorenz: Exactly.

Stephanie Baird: And you're not learning it.

Kris Hitesman: You're not learning it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And that's the industry. That's what we're here for. So wow, you guys, that hour went super-fast.

Kris Hitesman: It did.

Joshua Adams: Yeah, it did.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Should we talk some more?

Stephanie Baird: Yeah, we can talk some more. We can talk.

Will Lorenz: The show goes till Thursday, right?

Stephanie Baird: Yeah.

Joshua Adams: I want to talk more about coatings though, because man, that was such, people don't realize that is a huge profit line that you can add to your business with coatings. Let's help out some plug-in for coatings.

Will Lorenz: Thank you.

Joshua Adams: No, it's true though. It's a huge, huge industry. It's like all the built up roofs and everything that hasn't anything asphalt. It's like you can really help the homeowner out or the building owner and yourself and-

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And the landfills.

Kris Hitesman: But you also need to have proper education big time because there's some snake oil salesmen out there.

Joshua Adams: Don't just get up there and not yet, oh yeah, it's so true. Oh, my God.

Will Lorenz: Well, and then there's some people that want to self-perform and they might be a little dangerous, so we got to get them back to professional roofers who can do the job right.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes.

Kris Hitesman: Yes, yes exactly.

Joshua Adams: And prep the substrate. Yes.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So my friends, I do have to bring this to an end. I can't believe it. It's been so great. I want to say thank you to every single one of you. This has been the best. This is so great, and thank you Will, thank you for sponsoring the soundstage.

Joshua Adams: Yeah, thanks, Will.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And we're going the whole show. We're doing interviews. We're going to be bringing you all this kind of information, but this is by far my favorite, the Coffee Conversations when we can really talk about things.

Joshua Adams: It's great, yeah.

Outro: So please everybody out there, check out all of these directories. You're going to see a directory very soon for Roof Scout. You're going to see Western States right here. Bliss on Our Club has their directory on there. We'll talk about that, Kris and of course, General Coatings and Ever Roof, both directories on Roofer's Coffee Shop and on Coating's Coffee Shop. This is the kind of information that we want to bring to you all the time. Please let us know what you think and share this with everyone. This will be available on demand within the next 24 to 48 hours in there and watch for all of our Coffee Conversations coming up. Thank you. Stay tuned. We have more interviews coming from this Western Roofing Expo 2024.