Coffee Conversations - Family Business in the Roofing Industry - TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of an live interview with Kendall Ekerson of Columbia Roofing and Sheet Metal, Brittany Wimbish of Fields Roof Service and Sherri Miles of Miles Roofing. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast here.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Good morning, and welcome to Coffee Conversations. This is Heidi Ellsworth, and Roofers Coffee Shop is proud to bring you another episode of Coffee Conversations. This is a really kind of unique one because for the last year and a half we've been at home. You've seen the coffee shop banner behind me. We've been talking to people all over the country, and now we're all getting back on the road again. So we're bringing Coffee Conversations live to you from wherever we're at. And today I'm in Las Vegas at the Western roofing expo. And so is my friend Brittany here, who I'm going to introduce in just a second. So you're getting to see people from all over the country.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Again, thank you so much for being here. Few little housekeeping comments before we get started is this episode of Coffee Conversations is being recorded. You can share it out, be sure to tell all your friends about it, because you're going to hear some amazing, amazing wisdom about family business today. And also Megan Ellsworth is in the background and she's taking your questions and she's chatting and we want to bring you on live. We want to bring you on with your questions, whether that's audio or you type them in, or you come on and talk to these wonderful ladies today. That's what this is all about, a Q & A, a conversation on how we can make this great roofing industry even better.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Before we get started, I also want to introduce our sponsor for the day. Our sponsor, as we change the PowerPoint is IB RoofSystems. And IB RoofSystems is a family business. I want to give them a big thank you for being the sponsor of this Coffee Conversation. And the reason that they are the sponsor and visiting with them is because they're so committed to family. And as we switch to the next picture, you'll see that this Stanley family has been working together for a very long time. Those are the four brothers, their dad, Larry, and they've been protecting roofs since 1978. IB RoofSystems offers full PVC roofing systems along with coatings. They are doing some amazing things when it comes to working with contractors across the country. So a very special thank you to IB RoofSystems. And of course, as always, you can find them, their full directory and all their information on rooferscoffeeshop.com.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Now let's get started. I've been so excited about this coffee conversation. I am so proud to welcome Brittany Wimbish, Sherri Miles and Kendall Ekerson to Coffee Conversations. Good morning ladies.

Sherri Miles:
Good morning.

Kendall Ekerson:
Hi.

Heidi Ellsworth:
We are going to start out. Instead of me introducing them, well, I'm going to have them each introduce themselves. So we're going to start with Brittany. So Brittany, can you introduce yourself to everyone out there?

Brittany Wimbish:
Yeah. My name's Brittany Wimbish. I will be a third generation family owned business owner here shortly as my dad starts to transition out. They've been in the industry since they 1957. And one of the things that brought me into the family business was I needed a job that was flexible with a new kid, new baby. And so I came in and my dad wouldn't hire me. His assistant hired me and he was going to let me [inaudible 00:03:38] on my own under that authority, and I stuck it through ever since.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I love it. I love it. That is so cool. Sherri, can you introduce yourself?

Sherri Miles:
Yes. Good morning from the east coast. I'm Sherri Miles. I'm a fourth generation roofing contractor. My company was started in 1910 by my great grandfather. We have JD Miles & Sons. That's our legacy company and we have Miles Roofing which I own. My brother is also in business with me and my dad still comes into the office every once in while. I had no intention of coming back into the family business. And after college worked up in DC at a law firm for a few years and was at a crossroads in my life, figuring out what do I do next, and my dad said, why don't you come home, save some money for a bit. I ended up hating it. He sent me away and said, I went to work for Ellie Schwartz in Macon, Georgia. He said, why don't you figure out it's a roofing industry or here that you don't like? I worked for them for about six months, came back home with a new attitude and never looked back.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow. I love that. I love that. Kendall.

Kendall Ekerson:
Hi, I'm Kendall Ekerson. I'm second generation. So our company was started in 1996 by my father, Mark Carpenter. And I just came in when I was in college, kind of needed a part-time job and worked my way up through and did some of the marketing, did some of the accounting, kind of all the different things. And my husband here, we actually didn't know each other when we both started working here and now that's where we're at. I work with my husband almost every day and my husband or my dad comes and goes and we're all there.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Well, I have to tell you, my dad would be wishing right now that I would've followed all of you, because my dad was also a general contractor. And I was like, no way, do I want to work in a family business? But then as time went by, I ended up creating a family business. And so today we have our kids working in the business too. So it always seems to come back around one way or the other.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Again, I want to remind everybody to please ask questions of these ladies. We're going to start, we've got some questions that have come in earlier, but we really want your questions and your comments on how you're dealing with your family businesses and how you're seeing them thrive. But to start out with, Sherri, you kind of mentioned in there that it wasn't really the plan, and that seems to be kind of the theme you hear from a lot of people. But once you got into it and you started with your dad and as you grew, what's a sense of pride to be really talking about, this is my family business?

Sherri Miles:
I think it's both a sense of pride and, I don't know how you ladies feel, but also a little bit of a burden of responsibility. When we went through the great recession about 10, 12 years ago, my brother and I looked at each other and we're like, where are the notes from the great depression? We can't let this end on our watch. We felt a great responsibility to keep things going. And even if it changes a little bit, the business structure or what the products you offer, whatever it is to be relevant, we felt a great sense of responsibility to make sure that we kept going in difficult times.

Sherri Miles:
So there's pride. It's super wonderful to be able to say, I'm carrying on the legacy of past generations, and it's great to incorporate other families within our business. We have fathers and sons and uncles that work for us now. And so it is one big family. So that's also a great sense of pride for me.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I think that's such a great point. You don't think about that you're like fourth generation. We don't want it to end on our watch. I never thought of it that way. That is a lot of pressure.

Sherri Miles:
It is a lot of pressure. And you think about, and I'm already thinking about the fifth generation and kind of planting the seeds for them. The next crop, there's six kids between my [inaudible 00:08:31], and you have to have that sweet spot of both desire to be working in the business and competency. So when you get that, that's really key and it's not always the case in a family member.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. Brittany, you come from a long line of roofing across the family. [inaudible 00:08:53] is a very well known roofing company name in Washington, and you've kind of had to make some of these same ideas of coming in and how are you doing it, and now next steps. So talk a little bit about that and your sense of pride, really where you're at in trying to understand that family dynamic.

Brittany Wimbish:
Absolutely. I really like to share a lot with things not, making sure things still continue on. And I think through the recession and some difficult situations that we've had within the family, it's been a goal of mine to make sure whatever happens when that transition between me and the current ownership is, that them, as parents are taken care of, you know what I mean? Because they've worked in the roofing company since they were 20. That's just what it is. And so making sure that myself, or if something else happens and it transfers out, that that's still a goal of mine to make sure the company's set up in a way that it is most profitable, that we're doing processes and procedures that are most effective for our goals. And that, that is an option. They have options when it comes to time for retirement and all of that.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. You and I were just talking about that yesterday. That's so important because as the older generation is retiring and moving out, you want to bring in the younger generation, but you also don't want to be a burden on them because you didn't exit the business in a good way. So there's a lot in there.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Kendall, your family business is a little bit younger, and you've really, your dad started, I love the story you tell about being a little kid and going down to the basement and hearing as your dad's starting the business. Maybe share a little bit about that and how that's kind of brought you back within the business.

Kendall Ekerson:
Yeah. I'll share the story with several people because this is our 25th anniversary this year. So it's one of those things that I've shared with my dad. I don't know if he even realized that I still have memory of walking in the basement, going into that office door and he was all excited. He's like, I thought of the name and I'm like for what? For my roofing company. So I still have that memory. I still even remember the printer with the little, the holes up the sides of the paper. Anyway, it's just kind of a fun memory to have that because he was also working for another contractor at the time too.

Kendall Ekerson:
I don't think it was ever the plan. It was just kind of something he needed somebody while his receptionist was taking her maternity leave and I could help fill in. And just kind of [inaudible 00:11:45] like the people. Sherri mentioned that it's really neat to see even other families within our business over the years. And just knowing that's a big thing that my dad has instilled at me too, is that it's not just a business for us and our family, but we're providing these jobs and we're providing homes and lives for other families. And that's something that's really stuck with me. And you guys all know, I took a few years off these last couple of years, I love this so much and I decided to come back. I loved what I was doing before too. And so it was definitely hard, but there's something about this industry that it brings you back.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Well, and I think we need to point out one of the reasons that we have invited this panel of ladies to be on Coffee Conversations is because they did an amazing workshop at National Women in Roofing Day where the three of them talked about, and some others talked about family business, how to work through it. And so I was like, really, you got to come on and share these same stories. But I think a big thing too, is to know, obviously all women and all women taking over family businesses or working within the family businesses, that itself has a lot of challenges. Sherri, maybe you can address that just a little bit on, this is a changing dynamic. We're seeing a lot more women and we're seeing a lot more daughters. Do you have an interesting story on this?

Sherri Miles:
Oh, I have so many interesting stories on this. [inaudible 00:13:27] perspective from these young guns on the call today, I feel a little more seasoned. And it's changed so much in almost 30 years that I've been back at the company. From asked to get coffee all the time and not really being taken seriously as the potential owner of the company. And on job sites I still get, I show up and they're like, what, especially on schools, like, why are you out of class? I'm like, I'm not a student. I'm putting [inaudible 00:14:08].

Sherri Miles:
So there's [inaudible 00:14:13] of stories, but I think when you're armed with knowledge and you want to do your best, people take you more seriously. And I'm super excited to be one of the many growing daughters who are taking over the family business in construction and especially roofing. I think it's fantastic.

Heidi Ellsworth:
It is. It is so good. Brittany, you've kind of experienced a lot of that same thing coming in and this is a new dynamic. What are you seeing kind of coming into the business and as you've been growing and finding that as a woman in the industry, finding that respect and as part of the family business?

Brittany Wimbish:
It's been a journey. Sherry and even Kendall, when you are brought in for a certain role, and then time goes on and you're getting promoted and taking over different aspects of the company. When someone walked in X amount of time ago, you were at the front desk handling things, but then now time has passed and you're doing all the operations. You're doing the whole marketing thing. You're doing whatever it is. And you still get treated like you're just the daughter at the front desk doing the things. And it's changing because through [inaudible 00:15:31], I feel like I'm finding these lovely women for mentorship on how to navigate those situations and how to deal with people who are in the industry and are not used to dealing with us in a power position. And finding that respect and the more we connect and create conversations like this, it's going to continue to empower ourselves and empower that next girl or woman coming in to these companies, whether they're small or large.

Heidi Ellsworth:
So true. It's so true. And Kendall, I know you just kind of touched on it, the fact that you left for a couple years and then came back, but a lot of that was you really kind of finding the ground to be at an equal position and at the right position within the business for you and for your husband and for the family overall, maybe talk a little bit about that.

Kendall Ekerson:
Yeah. It was probably the best thing I could have done and I would definitely recommend it to people. Sherri you talked about how you left and kind of did your own thing. It was really great. I got to work with some people that just really helped me realize things that maybe I was, if there was things that I wasn't doing right or things that I was doing and they're reaffirming that, no, that is right. You are on the right track. You are a good manager. You are a good boss. Those types of things. You know what you're talking about. So coming back, it was very much like, okay, if I'm coming back, there're certain things that are going to be in place.

Kendall Ekerson:
I think a big piece of that too, was just like coming back working with my husband. It's like, what is that going to look like? There's a piece too that you kind of have to let go. At least this is my opinion is, as a daughter, I can't do anything about that. I am a daughter. I am a wife. There's nothing I can do about those things. And there's always going to be somebody that has an issue with that. Or there's always going to be somebody who thinks like, ah, she's just here because she's his daughter. I can't do anything about that. So we just got to let it go and move on and just know that we ourselves are doing what's right and what's best for the company.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. I think that's really good. And let's go on to that topic, because we have a great question here. First of all, I want everyone to know that Dawn Hall Singer out of Florida, who is always, she says, good morning, good morning ladies. So I love that. Good morning, Dawn. And then Harlene Pine asked a great question, which is really kind of where we were going with this, but how do you all deal with siblings who are not in the family business? So let's see kind of where that goes. So Sherri, let's start again with you. Any siblings not...

Kendall Ekerson:
So in our generation, my brother and I work together, but in previous generations, my grandfather was the youngest of seven. My great grandfather, anyway, there were lots of siblings. And they all worked in the company at different times and it became a little tricky. And I can attest that we did not do it the best, we did not put family first necessarily. And there's lots of mending fences that needs to happen. But it is a business. Again, best practices, listening to other people, listening to these ladies. How do you do things? How would you incorporate a sibling that's not in the business? Do you do an advisory board? Do you do a fiduciary board? There are lots of different ways that you can bring people in to the business but not work in the business. So I'm just here to listen to how other people do it.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. That's a really good point. Brittany, do you have siblings? I should know this, but...

Brittany Wimbish:
No, it's okay. I have a younger sister. She worked one day in the office and that's as far as she made it. She is a nurse and totally went outside of it. She doesn't want anything to do with the company. She laughs because I'll complain about X, Y, Z, or dynamic between me and dad, and she's like, well, you signed up for this or whatever. There's also an unspoken rule that my dad and I can't talk business when we're not at the office or around other people, because then there's too many opinions or we get deep into conversation and ignore everyone else or whatever the case is. So we have rules and boundaries that we have to set up to function with the other family members that aren't involved. People ask us about how the company's going, but it's never, we just keep it top level as much as possible.

Heidi Ellsworth:
We have the same problem and we'll talk a little bit about that, but we have the same problem. Because we wanted to talk about it all the time because it's fun. We're all working together and, but then there's people who are not involved and they're wanting to kind of, eh, quit talking about that. So Kendall, how does that work? Your husband, your dad, and then how many, do you have siblings? Tell us about your siblings.

Kendall Ekerson:
So I have one brother who worked here. He actually worked here for a long time. With the pandemic and all the shutdown, he was working on different project with my dad and it wasn't working out. And so he stepped back and actually it was really great. He's rocking it, he's doing his own thing. He's doing some residential work and he's doing his own thing now. So we are very different people too. I think that it worked out that he's doing his thing and I'm doing mine and me and my husband are over here. So we don't really have that issue right now. The issue we have is more so like my parents watch my kids a couple nights a week. And so we go to pick them up after work, they try to avoid those conversations but they happen sometimes because it is, it's just what it is.

Kendall Ekerson:
And for me and my husband it's, again, one of those that we've kind of put in place when I came back of, this stuff needs to stay at the office as much as it can because now being back, we've got two little kids, we need to come home and just be mom and dad. So we try to do things like have a weekly check-in, which sometimes happens, sometimes it's daily check-ins. We also do, we try and go out to lunch a lot and use that time as kind of a catch up or we'll call each other on the drive home, it's a 20 minute drive and catch up that way, but then it's once it's home, we're done we're, things are left until the next morning.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Ah, that is really, we find the same things, phone calls in the car because my heads can't stop spinning. And you kind of want to get it out before you get home. I find the exact same things. I do want to say we have Brianna who has a question out there. So Brianna, I don't know if you'd want to come on, chat up with Megan if you wanna come on and ask your question live, because you fit right in with these ladies. Brianna is working on, I think you guys have met her, Brianna Doll, working in the business, her and her sister working the business together with their family. So really, really interesting.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I'll let you chat with Megan if you want to come on, otherwise I'll ask your question here in just a second. One of the things that we really wanted to hit on too, is about how you kind of deal with the family arguments. We kind of talked about not taking it home, but there's going to be uncomfortable situations where you don't agree in the workplace or maybe you're having problems about how is this transition working? What is happening? How do you deal with that? Maybe we'll start on the other side, let's start with you Kendall. How have you dealt with that?

Kendall Ekerson:
No, no arguments, never. I don't know. There are times where my dad and I will argue and then will come back and be like, man, we're the same person. So I think having that, [inaudible 00:24:18] you get it. I think having that realization of the other one is thinking the same, but maybe just different. I don't really have a good answer for this one other than just trying to circle back and make sure we don't leave things messy sort of thing. You hear like with your spouse, you don't go to bed angry. Just over the years, I think you kind of learn how to communicate to each other too.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And not leave things hanging. I think that's so important.

Kendall Ekerson:
Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Brittany, how do you handle that in the workplace?

Brittany Wimbish:
In the beginning terribly. We would have very high level conversations at times because I would get emotional and kind of mama bear about things that were going on that maybe he didn't see from my perspective. But a couple things that we've worked, it's totally different now, but we've worked through some things where I would come with an issue and go with these things you need to change. And he's like, well, don't come with just the complaint, you need to come with the solution. You know what I mean? Show me what you think the solution is and then we'll go from there, that sort of thing.

Brittany Wimbish:
Really finding, you learn more about your parent or that dynamic, even with anybody, not a parent in the industry, but when you're having these conversations, these tough ones, you almost have to learn them very personally and know how they're going to best receive information. My dad doesn't handle stress well, he's non-confrontational where I can do all of that, but if I want something, something's important and needs to happen, I've got to find the right dynamic to introduce that to, and then the pathway to execute it basically.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Oh, that smart. That's really good. Sherri, have you dealt with that and with your brother and your dad and uncles and everything else?

Sherri Miles:
Yeah. It's tricky. Brittany you're so wise, you're much wiser and more self aware than I was at your age. That's remarkable. And Kendall, you too, being so smart about having boundaries and home is home and work is work and that's terrific. In my case, as long as my brother does what I say, everything's fine. He and I are very, very different, very compatible, but very different. I push him and he has to reel me back in sometimes. And then I feel really badly for him because I am my father. I know it. I know, and I know how difficult that is to be around and live with sometimes because we're always right. It's just tricky.

Sherri Miles:
But having said that, I think being a woman is a little bit different and I picked up on that with you two ladies as well, because you learned to navigate earlier, I think in conversations with your family members and men and people, especially men in power who are your bosses. And it's really fascinating that, and I think we are more capable and able to assume those roles and responsibilities of ownership and leadership because we are women. And I think it brings a whole new dynamic and great opportunities for each of our companies.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I too. It's balancing out the industry just the right way, I think, because that's what we really kind of need. I believe, Megan, are we ready to bring Brianna on with her question?

Sherri Miles:
Hello.

Brianna Doll:
Hello.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Hey, before you start, just introduce yourself and your business and your company.

Brianna Doll:
Okay. I'm Brianna Doll. I am with Roof Medics who in 2017. My dad started it. But the history goes farther than that. My great grandpapa started a roofing company in 1957 which was taken over by my grandpa and then my dad and my uncle. And then my dad got out of that for a few years and also came back to roofing, realized this is where he wanted to be. And now my sister and I work in the company. And my question was, so my dad, his plan is like 10 years from now he wants to retire and he wants to hand the company over to us. And just what suggestions or things should we be putting into place or thinking about now so that in 10 years when, for sure, my sister, she is all on board with taking it over. I'm still not sure if this is where I want to be. And so what should we be thinking about now and putting in place so that in 10 years when that happens, we're as prepared as possible?

Sherri Miles:
What a wonderful question for you guys thinking about that so early. 10 years is a long time and it's great to have that long road ahead of you, that plan, but I would just come back to it. If you have what you think is going to happen in place, if you have some buy sell agreements or you have some life insurance and how you're going to make your dad comfortable for taking over the company, I think that we talked a little bit about that earlier, making sure our parents are taken care of and all their hard work, but also having those conversations with you and your sister. You may be at a different place in five or 10 years than you are now, or she may be. And so just coming back to revisit it, and things change. And don't say that once we have something in place, that the way it's going to be, that would be my suggestion.

Brittany Wimbish:
Those are great Sherri. And I co-sign the 10 years as a long time and especially with the roofing industry in general. Your roofing company's going to adjust and change processes and procedures. I would work on a long on game plan to phase your dad out smoothly. So he's doing less and less as it gets closer and closer instead of one day on Monday he's done and you're just like, oh, there's an open spot. Have those people back filling and getting him comfortable with walking away, knowing it's in safe hands and his fingers aren't in all the day-to-day stuff.

Kendall Ekerson:
Yeah. The 10-year plan is really what I feel people say to have, but Sherri said about, give yourself permission almost to revisit it, but having the plan because we're in it now. We didn't do the 10-year plan. Because I also think it's hard to have those conversations. So I am going to do a little plug, Heidi for, if you and your sister are serious about this, look into that FEI program through the NRCA, because that will give you some background too, to be able to have some of those conversations.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. Brianna, that is a great, that FEI program for anybody, for you looking at it or anybody else listening, that is on nrca.net, and it is... Sherry, I know you've done it, Kendall you've done it. Brittany, are you looking at the FEI? Not yet, but soon maybe. It is. Sherri you've been involved with the NRCA committees on the FEI. Can you just add to that note?

Sherri Miles:
For sure. And I personally have not gone through FEI a little bit. My brother was in the very first class. I started having babies and stepped back a little bit and worked when I could. All the time, but when I could. So I did not have the opportunity to do FEI. I instead did an, because I was older and in a different part of my career, when I had some more time, I did a class with Loyola University in Chicago for next generation leadership institute. Similar to the FEI, but not roofing specific.

Sherri Miles:
I also felt like everybody knows my dad and I didn't feel like I could talk freely necessarily because some things are really touchy, really touchy, but it's really important to have a peer group to be able to talk to about this. So yes, I highly recommend it. Y'all can speak to it better because, Kendall, you grow and you're close to those people that you go through this experience for 18 months, two years,

Kendall Ekerson:
Mine three years.

Sherri Miles:
Oh, it was three years? [inaudible 00:33:38]. Get a lot of tools for success, but then you also get amazing peer network that you guys build and grow off of. So please talk more about that.

Kendall Ekerson:
Okay. Do you want me to touch on some more of that? Okay. So yeah, it's a three-year program. It's run through the Northwestern University in Chicago and the Kellogg School of Business. And, I don't want to forget anybody, but Tom Shanahan with the NRCA, I think in my mind he had that up, but I don't want to put anybody down there. There's a lot of people that have a lot of hands that go into that. But he's a huge wealth of knowledge. I think that's a big piece of it too, is I wasn't really familiar with the NRCA or the Western states or these different organizations until I did FEI. And it makes you get in there and it makes you get to know these things and get to know the industry. And yeah, we've got these group chats that are going on that if somebody, and everybody is outside of your area, so you don't have a competitor in the group either.

Kendall Ekerson:
So you're free to talk with... Sherri, I can totally understand where you guys were coming from. My husband is actually in the current class now, and I'm so excited because there're some things that I'm like, oh man, at the time it was like, oh, is it too early? But now it's great because I have this background and then he's bringing in the fresh perspective. And it goes through legal and marketing and leadership and strategic planning and so much stuff. And it's so good and it gives you that stuff that maybe would have taken you 10, 15 years to learn and you learn it in three.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow. That's excellent advice ladies. Excellent. Brianna, thank you so much.

Brianna Doll:
Thank you.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Thank you. And thank you for everything you're doing. If anybody hasn't listened to the podcast that Brianna and her sister are doing, it's really cool. Brianna give a real quick plug for where people can listen to your podcasts.

Brianna Doll:
So our podcast is called [inaudible 00:35:54] podcast. We are everywhere, Apple, Google, Amazon. So you just search, [inaudible 00:36:00] podcast. It'll get pulled up on Google. My sister and I, we have been around the roofing industry our entire lives but not necessarily in it. So our podcast is from the view of we've been around, we understand there's all this jargon and different things that people outside of the roofing industry don't really understand, but we're not professionals. So we're learning and teaching our audience simultaneously. So we're learning with them, but teaching them.

Brianna Doll:
We don't always get it right, but we're learning. My dad says we graduated from Ruben Kindergarten recently, so we're moving up. But it's great. It's out there. We bring on some great [inaudible 00:36:45]. I know Heidi's been on it. Some ladies from [NWIR 00:36:48] have been on it. So it's a great thing.

Heidi Ellsworth:
It is great. Thank you much for coming on. Thank you for being here on Coffee Conversation.

Brianna Doll:
Thank you.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Awesome. We also have, I think Megan is trying to bring on Sean Stanley. So Sean, I'm not sure if you can come on, but Sean Stanley is one of the Stanley brothers with IB Roofs. So I would love to have you come on and ask you a question. So Megan's chatting with him. We also, Arlene, I'm sorry if I said your name, wrong Pine. You have some great questions here too. I'm just kind of talking about as daughters get married, how does that work with their husbands and the business. And so if you want to come on, Arlene, let us know. I am going to ask this question because it's really good, but maybe you all can talk about that. Like how do you handle this basically moving into the business, a family business, and then you have your husband and how does that work with that business. Brittany, why don't you start?

Brittany Wimbish:
My husband currently works in tech. His involvement with the company isn't necessarily in the day to day, but it's in my emotional support system, which is very important. He definitely brings a perspective for me that's more of a corporate side because he worked in startups and lives in that kind of realm where our company is not like that at all. So that's kind of where our partnership is, is he just helps me bring some more process and procedure and balanced in that perspective to a smaller business for sure.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Kendall.

Kendall Ekerson:
I guess, me and my husband, we met at the company, so it's just been, I think, trial and error at this point. We've had conversations though with my parents about if this transition goes through what it would look like, what are their wishes. And so, we've had all the tough conversations of is the whole company in my name. And that brings benefits though, too. Because there's credits for women owned businesses and, or maybe it's a 51,49. That's one thing that we've always tried to be open with too, is sometimes there's difficult questions, but you just have to ask them and be open to them.

Kendall Ekerson:
And my husband's like, whatever, he's like, it can be 100% yours. It's fine. So we're kind of in the middle of trying to figure that all out, but we've definitely had those tough conversations of whose name is where and that kind of thing

Heidi Ellsworth:
Let's get to Sherri.

Sherri Miles:
Well, I'm not married anymore, but my ex-husband and I met through a general contractor who had filed bankruptcy. And I was a roofing contractor who needed to get paid, and my ex-husband was a lawyer on the case. So he's a bankruptcy attorney. He's very good at what he does. And has nothing besides that. One little incident has nothing to do with the companies. You don't want to think about what could happen, but it does, statistically marriages don't always work out. So it's really important to think about that and have those conversations upfront when a transition is occurring or when, I was buying out the stock or getting gifts from the stock for my grandparents. So it's happy ending because the company did not have to get split up because it was solely in my name.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And that's exactly what Arlene was asking. She was kind of like, be careful with that. And she also shout out to FEI. And again, if you want to get on, just chat with Megan and she can bring you in. We're seeing it Megan is working with Sean to see if he can come in too. But there's another question that goes right along with this from Kevin Peterson, which is just a really great question. In general, what were the structure of the buyouts of your fathers, gifting company buys the stock back, et cetera, or does anyone have any recommendations for the structure of buyout? And I know some of you are in the process, Sherri, you've done it. So maybe you can start out with kind of some advice along those lines.

Sherri Miles:
Yeah. I really think that as many companies there as there are, there is going to be [inaudible 00:41:35] solutions. Whatever's going to work for you the best in your family and keeping your family unit together is paramount. So whether that's gifting the stock, skipping a generation like we did bypass from my grandparents to me, and kind of skipping my dad for some of that because you have a state taxes to think about because you don't want to lose the company to taxes. There're so many factors that go into it, emotional and legal and what's best for the company. It's not a one size fits all.

Sherri Miles:
We in our companies have different structures in all of them at different ownership percentages because that worked for us. I don't know what it's going to look like going forward, but my brother and I will have a buy-sell in case something happens to him or something happens to me, and does his wife come in? She's a preschool administrator teacher, probably not, but our kids are going to be old enough to potentially come in. So there's so many things to think about and we go back to that 10 year plan. You can have a 10-year plan, but a lot change in 10 years. And so you want make sure that you can adjust it along the way. Sorry, that wasn't a very good answer, but it's all over the place.

Heidi Ellsworth:
No, I think there's so much there. Wendy Marvin, thank you. She was asking about exit strategies too. I think she's heading out, but just want to do a shout out to Wendy who's always here. Thank you. Kendall, any thoughts on structuring buyouts or are you kind of in that situation?

Kendall Ekerson:
We're kind of in the middle of it, trying to figure out what makes sense. I can say that we've had a lot of conversations, which I would, at first it was like, we didn't even know where to start and we started talking to people. There was a brother-sister situation where they said that they even have something in place that it's like they're in business with each other. And if one of them passes, it's an automatic sellout from their spouse, they don't go into business with the spouse.

Kendall Ekerson:
So there's that thing that goes into place. Bottom line after talking to an attorney too, is you can structure it any way you want to. I would just suggest you get an attorney and make sure that that's in place and do it properly and have it written out. Basically that's what they told us. They were like, whatever you guys want to do, there's a way to do it. There's a way to, you can gift, you can sell, there's so many options out there, which on one hand is good, but on the other hand it can also be really hard and confusing.

Brittany Wimbish:
I have a question for the two of you in regards to this. And it's the flip side of it, not necessarily setting up the buyout in what the person exiting wants, but what does the person that is looking to prepare for those opportunities, what do they need to do for their finances, their expectation, that side of it?

Sherri Miles:
You need to pay yourself well, know your worth to begin with. Really you need to start accumulating your own wealth and your assets so that you have a strong balance sheet personally, separate from the company so that when you start that takeover or that transition, you feel comfortable enough to do that. It's not always the easiest thing to do, but just put money aside, pay yourself well, you're worth it and be prepared for what's coming down the pipe.

Kendall Ekerson:
Yeah. I'd say that we, at this point too, it's kind of not the best time to buy or sell these companies right now, especially, we've all seen this industry's kind of in a weird place. So I think be patient also. We got set up with a financial advisor a couple of years ago, actually, not even because of this, but it's really helped us understand where our finances are and where we are personally and get things under control. Or if you have debt, they help you pay that off. So I suggest if you don't have one already, getting a financial advisor has been really great for us.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I think that is both, first of all, great question, Brittany. And second of all, great answers because, and I think it just kind of probably depends on your family and your background and maybe even your age, but to have a financial planner in my family background, which was very blue collar was like, not even heard of. It was just so far out of that window, but yet now we have gotten our kids with starting them young and working with that and being aware of it. If you want it to own your own business and go that direction, you've got to be thinking that way.

Heidi Ellsworth:
The questions are awesome, you guys. I'm just so excited, so many great questions. So how have you dealt with non-family members that doubt decision-making capability because they doubt your knowledge and feel you are in your position because of your last name? So we kind of talked about that a little bit, and this is from Sean Stanley. We couldn't get him on at this point, but Brittany, let's start with you.

Brittany Wimbish:
I think a lot of times you, whether this is a family member or someone just in the industry that doubts your ability to do your job, I think you've just got to brush it off and focus on your network of people that are going to support you and helping you make these decisions. I don't have a roofing background. I just have the business side. And so when there's a question that comes up that I feel like I need a second opinion on, I've got my group of women through NWIR that I can reach out to, and they're going to give me this perspectives I need from smaller companies, larger companies, from manufacturers, all that full side, that full circle. So I think your association with the people that are helping you personally within that industry is very, very important.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Sherri.

Sherri Miles:
Yeah. Two things. I think as family members coming in the next gen, sometimes we have that imposter syndrome. We don't think that [inaudible 00:48:32] enough, we don't think that we're good enough. And you know you add that layer of being a woman and we've been kind of programmed to do that, to have that as our voice in our head. So it does take some time to get past that, but you have to give yourself grace and you have to understand, and hopefully that you surround yourself with all, that it's okay to fail. It's okay to not be perfect. That's the way you learn. In our company we say you're either winning or learning. So you don't fail. It's not failing. Allow yourself to make a decision one way or the other, you just make it and go for it. And if it doesn't work out, you've learned a ton.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. Kendall.

Kendall Ekerson:
Jeez, there are still days where you're, I just no, I know what I'm doing and it's good and I'm here. But like Brittany said, you brush it off and move forward. I would probably add that as a family, you have each other's backs, even if you don't necessarily keep that in an office, you keep that in private, because the second of family member doubts you to another employee, it's like downhill. So if there is a doubt in a family member, keep that. I would say keep that in the family, because if you open that door to the other employees, not all of them, but some of them will hop on it and it can be really devastating.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. It really can. I think that's really good. We have another question that's very similar. But before I do this, because we're getting down to the last, I can't believe how fast this hour has gone. Can you guys? It's like, woo. I want to bring on two special guests here, Megan Ellsworth and AJ Gehley who are part of the family of Roofer's Coffee Chop. Megan is my daughter and AJ is my niece, my sister's daughter. And both of them work in Roofer's Coffee Shop along with Megan's brother, James Ellsworth. We also have other folks in our company who are related to Vicky Sharples, who is my business partner. So we are a very, very family business. And so I asked these two to come on. AJ, Megan, any comments or questions for these ladies? Megan, do you want to start?

Megan Ellsworth:
Oh, I was going to have AJ go but I'll go. It's been really helpful hearing all of your answers and perspectives and opinions and all these questions, because definitely there are times where, especially now, because I started before my older brother did. So sometimes, I'm like James, stop it. So it's nice Sherri to hear that you and your brother work well together and you've worked through your things and it's really fun to work with family and it's inspiring to see all of your positive stories about this. So thank you for sharing.

Heidi Ellsworth:
AJ.

AJ Gehley:
I'm very much on the same. I started just a little bit before James. And he's my supervisor. So I have a lovely dynamic of my oldest cousin and I'm kind of the baby is my supervisor. So it was very nice to hear from you guys just that we're going to make it through and it's okay if there's those awkward conversations and those hard moments, is that you're just going to get through the end and you have to make sure that you still keep that relationship, which has been very hard because James, Heidi and I are all the same person. And so it's very hard sometimes for the three of us, but we do very well. And so it's nice to hear other families also have that struggle sometimes within the family business.

Sherri Miles:
No, I think I love those perspective from you ladies. It's part of becoming more self-aware, do personality tests on each other, so you can see like, they're not, you may be on one way of thinking, but they're on a different way of saying the same thing. It's really interesting. I've figured out through all my work that I was stressing my brother out to the max, and I had no idea because every day I come in, I'm like, oh, we need to buy this building. I think we're going to start this and let's do this project. And he's like, he's operations guy, he's automatically like, go on to, how am I going to do it? How are we going to get this done? Like the details. I'm like, oh, we're not going to do any of that. I was just thinking about that in the shower this morning.

Sherri Miles:
I [inaudible 00:53:40] every morning and stressing him out. And so, it's been much better, because he couldn't enunciate why he was dreading me every morning, but that's what it was. I had to get work that out before I came into him and only come to him with one idea.

Heidi Ellsworth:
That is, I have to tell you, and this kind of goes along. There's another question here too, that goes along with exactly what you're all doing. So Megan and AJ stay. As owners, this is from Aaron Dennison. As owners of a family owned business, do all of you believe you are effective in making sure everyone else in your company non-family, feel like they are a part of your family? If so, how?

Heidi Ellsworth:
I think that's a great question. We work with that every single day at the coffee shop, making sure everybody that we're one big family. But Kendall, how does that work at Columbia?

Kendall Ekerson:
We try to work really hard on our culture and making sure that people feel heard and involved. Like I said, if there is family drama, we try to keep it behind the closed doors. And so not everybody, almost try to keep people out of the family too in that sense, because we want them to feel part of it, but not that part. And it's a balance. I think it's hard. I don't know if I have a great answer for that one, but it takes a lot of work everyday.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Culture. Brittany?

Brittany Wimbish:
I think a lot of it, I function on the mentality that I will take out the trash and I will deposit checks. I will do all the things. I will never ask anybody to do anything that I wouldn't do myself. And making sure that the owners and myself, or people in supervising roles, that there's an open door policy, that we're here to listen. We're going to take your perspective. Just opening that conversation up so everyone from whatever position you are in the company feels like they're valued and their opinion matters and their perspective or what their day to day feels like. Do they feel safe? Are they working with a good team? Is there personality conflict? And making sure that those can be talked about in a safe setting and not immediately feel judged or that there's going to be a consequences in that sense.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, that's so important. Sherri bring us home.

Sherri Miles:
This is from one of my employees, our safety director, Aaron Dennison.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Oh.

Sherri Miles:
Yes. That's a fun. Hi, Aaron. I think that we sometimes forget we're so focused on moving ahead and what's coming up next that we don't pause and think about how getting each person's perspective and thought. And making sure that they do feel like they're part of the decision making team and the family as it were. So we have been going through a little bit of a culture change at our company where we're working on our new mission, vision and values and making sure that all of the voices are heard, because it's a new generation. It's what we want to, how we want to grow and how we want to differentiate ourselves. So I think it's a continuous process and learning is the key.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I think so too. Megan and AJ, any last, we're at our last three minutes then we're going to thank these ladies, but I just wanted to say any other comments or questions?

Megan Ellsworth:
I will say I put together our monthly RCS happy hours, and those are always very fun. And I feel like that really helps everyone feel very included just in the company culture as it stands. Definitely a lot of family stories come out, and so I think also that helps people feel a part of the Ellsworth family and maybe more than they want to be, but I think we definitely strive to do that as well.

AJ Gehley:
Yeah. James and I have definitely worked because him and I like co-leads some meetings. We work on trying to keep our inside jokes out of those meetings because not everyone else understands them, and it's just him and I that get it. And then I still definitely agree with Brittany, when I went to the seminar they had on this at National Women in Roofing Day that we need a support group for families that are in family owned businesses. I still just think that that's the best idea ever because it is, we're survivors and it's a whole different struggle that we face sometimes.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I have to tell you, we have to give credit to AJ for this Coffee Conversation because after she attended your class with all of you, she came out and she was walking about this far off the ground. And she's like, I love this industry and Heidi, this is the best thing ever. We got to talk about it. You got to have this more. So thank you AJ for inspiring this conversation this morning and we definitely got all generations going on here. So this is great.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Well, I can't believe it, but we are at the end of our hour. Megan, if you can pop up the PowerPoint, I want to thank IB RoofSystems one more time. Sean Stanley was on here and this was really Sean is doing some amazing things around family business and having those conversations. And so for the family, for the Stanley brothers, for everything they're doing in the industry and being a sponsor today. I just want to say thank you so much. It really makes a difference when we have these companies that are walking the talk of family businesses and really bringing it to the forefront.

Heidi Ellsworth:
So our friends at IB Roof, please, everyone visit them, check out the directory on Roofer's Coffee Shop and all the great initiatives they have going. And more than anything, I want to thank you, ladies, Brittany, Sherri, Kendall, you just inspire me every single day. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, your journey, your wisdom. Thank you for being here today.

Kendall Ekerson:
Thank you.

Heidi Ellsworth:
If any of you, I know we did not get to every single question. So if you have questions, please send them to Megan or I, and we will get them to Kendall, Brittany and Sherri and connect you. That's one of the things that Brittany, well, all of us have been talking about is this network. So whether you're a man, a woman, it doesn't matter. There's this awesome network for all of us to get together, talking about family businesses and supporting each other. If you have any questions about the FEI, that's also on, under the NRCA directory on Roofers Coffee Shop and also nrca.net. So we had a lot of chatter about that.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And I want to invite everybody back on October 14th for the CEO third quarter review, really interesting. NRCA last night had a great town hall on this. We have Jennifer Ford-Smith with Johns Manville, Darryl Kretser with National Roofing Partners, [inaudible 01:01:09] with Roof Coatings Manufacturing Association and General Coatings, and Adam Oaks with Estimating Edge. So this is going to be a powerhouse, really looking at what's going on and doing some looking forward too. So please join us October 14th at the new time, 7:00 AM appreciate you all being here today. Thank you for joining us with our Coffee Conversations and we'll see you again soon. Thank you everybody. Have a great day.