Chuck Magee - How are You Raising the Rank of Your Website? - PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of an live interview with Chuck Magee of Raise the Rank. You can read the interview below, or listen to the podcast. 

Speaker 1:
Welcome to Roofing Road Trips with Heidi. Explore the roofing industry through the eyes of a long-term professional within the trade. Listen for insights, interviews, and exciting news in the roofing industry today.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Hello, and welcome to another Roofing Road Trips from Roofers Coffee Shop. This is Heidi Ellsworth, and I am here today with a returning guest, Chuck Magee with Raise the Rank. Chuck, welcome to the show.

Chuck Magee:
Well, Heidi, it's great to be here again. I think it was three, four months ago or so.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yes.

Chuck Magee:
I don't think we had gotten hot yet down here in the south, but it hadn't been that long ago that we were talking.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Well, not only is it hot down in the south, but for all of you listening, I am virtually road tripping to Louisiana where Chuck is located and dealing with the after-effects of Ida. How are you doing with that, Chuck?

Chuck Magee:
I'm doing fine. They got us back on with... We were without water, power, or internet for days, but they got us back on quick, and right now I think they're getting about a 100,000 a day back on. So, yeah, it's a train wreck down here in Louisiana. And, I mean, I will say this, the guys muscled up and they're making it happen. But, yeah, it's a lot going on.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. There's a lot of frontline response out there from our roofing community. And, so, we're seeing a lot on our classifieds. We're seeing a lot coming through, trying to help people out in our forums. So, our hearts are with you and everybody down there recovering from that. Today, what we want to talk about is your company, Raise the Rank, but specifically, search engine optimization. So, in our last podcast, we talked about how do you build your back office? How do you work with your CRMs? How do you bring all your technologies together? And today, Chuck, you and I talked about let's just really dive into search engine optimization because a lot of people have no idea. They've heard they need it. They don't know what to do. So we're going to try to demystify today. So let's start with... First, what is SEO and search engine optimization?

Chuck Magee:
Okay. That's a great question, and it's such a misunderstood thing. It's an acronym for search engine optimization, of course. But, what most people don't understand is that pure, hardcore SEO is about traffic. It's not about conversions. It's not about a lot of that kind of stuff. So, when people say SEO, it is about traffic. And, to get traffic, you've got to rank. So, you're wanting to rank. Of course, you want to rank number one, but that's so hard because you're not really... We'll get into some other things, I'm sure, but you're typically head-to-head with a home advisor edging, and things like that, to rank number one.

Chuck Magee:
So, it's misunderstood about where you're actually going to land. And, if you have been around Google for the last 10, 15, 20 years, you know that that search engine result page has drastically changed from 15 years ago to today. They have [crosstalk 00:03:14] the white space. It used to be cleaner. But, now there's so much on there; there's so many ads and all that kind of stuff, that the local pack has become very prominent. You spin at the bottom and all those kind of things. So, that is one of the things that's truly misunderstood is where do you really fall on that page?

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. Really having realistic outlook of how that's going to work with all those ads, with everything that Google My Business... Everything that's there; there's so much. So, again, this is going to be a really simple question, but I think it's really important that we kind of start from the beginning, because there's so much mystery and stuff around this. But, why should contractors even care? Why do roofing contractors care about raising the rank, about being ranked up on that home page or that first page?

Chuck Magee:
Okay. That's an excellent question. Okay. So, to just touch on that, the first thing is that if you've got a piece of property, or a home for sale, or a business for sale, the most important thing to you is probably going to be location. Well, it's kind of the same thing for SEO and rankings; it's because how much real estate, where is my real estate on page one of Google? Because, you could bury Jimmy Hoffa on page two; you ain't going to find anything over there. It is about being on page one and where are you? So, even though it's great to rank number one, in a lot of markets, that's not realistic, depending on who you are and what all you've got going, or either... Got to remember this too. It's the long game. So, you're not going... Don't say you're not going to. If you're in a market that's not as competitive as some of the markets my clients have gotten me in, like Raleigh, North Carolina, and things like that. It's hand-to-hand combat when you get on page one.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. And, I think too, we really have to talk about the difference in consumer behavior because homeowners and building owners... It doesn't matter if you're residential or commercial, they're Googling you. They are Googling local roofing contractors, roofing contractors who do residential, or commercial, or insurance work, or whatever it may be. And, the days of just knowing everybody in your town, that's just not the way it is anymore. And, Google is your Yellow Pages, to date myself, and it is your way of being in front of your audience.

Chuck Magee:
Absolutely. I mean, it's critical to be there. Now, where you are there is going to change. And, every time somebody searches a different keyword, that's going to change too. And, that's something that a lot of guys don't understand. And, here's one. I don't know if you've ever heard... I've heard this one a million times. I Googled and I can't find myself. And, you can't really get accurate results without a tool of some sort. You can try to go into Chrome in an incognito window and do some searches. And, there's some things that you can do to kill your geo. There's some extensions that you can put on Chrome to kind of kill your geolocation and things, but you're still not going to get an accurate search. So, they call me all the time, "Man, I did 'roofers near me' and I'm not showing up." And I'm going, "How many of your competitors have you clicked on? It's because Google is out to feed you what it thinks you like, so if you've clicked on all of your competitors, Google's going to feed that tool." And...

Heidi Ellsworth:
It's a complicated... It's just complicated. I think that's all there is to it. And, before we get into that, I really want to go into the top tips of what contractors should be asking, like why can't I find myself when I say "roofers near me?" But, before we get to that, let's kind of take the elephant out of the corner. There is a lot of skepticism about SEO and SEO companies. We're getting hit with it all the time through social media, and emails, and different things. So, can you kind of talk about that? I love before you referred to it as the wild west with SEO companies in the roofing industry. What's your take on that?

Chuck Magee:
Yeah. And, I have said that numerous times. I mean, Billy the Kid is much more your friend than many SEO agencies out there, because some of them go into it to take your money, have no intention of trying to make you rank. And, it's like a turn-and-burn-them; get them in and get them out in six months. I don't understand that. When I take a client, I want them to be with me for 10 years, 15 years, whatever. But, they should be skeptical. And, because I've seen all kinds of level of knowledge...

Chuck Magee:
And, I can't tell you how many times I have clients that, as a joke, they send me... because they're getting emails all the time from these individuals or agencies. And, sometimes, just for the fun of it, I look them up. And, you could do a WHOIS with GoDaddy, and you can see how old they are, and you can check out their website and things like that. And I'm going, "Hey, really? This guy's been here for three months, six months." They do a quick course on the internet and now I'm an SEO expert. And, so they're going to start taking money from somebody, but some of what you should do is vet them. Before you pay somebody, an SEO, vet them and ask for referrals.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yes. One of the things that I find that is so important... And, this is about marketing overall. With all the marketing that I've done, and different things, is I always tell contractors, "Work with people, if possible, who have had experience in roofing, because it's different; it's not the same as everybody else." And, so you end up spending all your time teaching somebody about roofing instead of having them actually get the services done that you need. I'm sure you've seen that a lot.

Chuck Magee:
Oh, you have no idea. And, that's some of the best advice that you can give them. I deal strictly with roofing. I might would take a remodel if it was the right situation. But, we've got guys that do remodeling, but I don't really go after remodelers; I go after roofing. And, I don't have to do keyword research. I don't have to do any of that. I know exactly what keywords that we're going to go after. I know exactly what we need to do to build this service page. And, if you've got somebody that's working a dentist today, and a car dealer tomorrow, and a florist the next day, and then they're going to come in and do your roofing stuff...

Chuck Magee:
I mean, do they really know the difference between a Duration shingle and a CertainTeed product, or Atlas, or GAF? I mean, can they even talk that language with you? I mean, can they describe what the SureNail line is in an OC shingle? I mean, those things are important, because if it's not on your website... You got to remember, you got to tell Google who you are, what you do, and where you do it, or how are they going to know? So, if you're a roof repairer, and you're a roofing contractor or roofing company, and you've got OC, then it needs to be there or Google's not going to know it.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. And, the thing that I think is so important too, and a lot of our listeners probably don't know this, but you are an owner of a roofing company, also. Or, I should say part owner. But, you have that experience actually working within the roofing company, which I think makes such a huge difference.

Chuck Magee:
Yes. And, it's a strange way... I started in the internet industry 21 years ago, and it was construction and real estate. So, it all went together with what I'm doing now. And, we were re- Back then it was called rehabbing, and now it's called flipping houses. So, we were rehabbing in Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas, and Oklahoma. So, we were huge into rehabbing houses and into real estate as well. So, my first websites were a suite of real estate websites. So, I used my websites to help sell the products in all of these states and everything. And, that's how it led to where I'm at today. And, it was important to rank back then, and these guys want to rank.

Chuck Magee:
So, yes, 11 years ago, a friend of mine, actually my best friend... I could thank him one day and choke him the next. But, he talked to me and he came to me and said, "I need help starting a roofing company." He had never done the day-to-day business before, and I had when I was younger. So, the first thing I said, "Man, you've lost your mind. Roofing? You have lost your mind." But, he did; he talked me into it. We did it. So, yes, I have owned a roofing company for almost 11 years with my partner.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow. I think that...

Chuck Magee:
Yeah. And, that does give me insight into product, what's going on, what's the territory manager, all these things. Have you inked a contract with a client? Do you know what a supplement is? All those kind of things.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right. Right. And, so, as people are looking... As the contractors and everyone listening to this... As you're looking at raising your rank, really getting your company on that first page, where you can get in front of the homeowners, get in front of the building owners, it's about a lot more than just your keywords. It's about a lot of different things. And, so, having people who understand roofing, and understand all that, I think is so critical. So, coming from that with your technology and contracting, what are some of the questions that contractors should be asking anyone they're looking to hire to do SEO services?

Chuck Magee:
Well, that's a great question. Where am I ranking? What are my problems? Why are these my problems? What are you going to do to solve those problems and make me rank better? What exactly are you going to do that will make me... What's going to make me number one, hopefully, or put me at least in the top three that I'm not doing now? Because some of these guys are with somebody now. Some of them have never done anything. But, what are you specifically going to do? Explain it to me. If they can't explain it to you... If they can't explain what the problems are, and they can't explain a course of action to get you to number one, then you need to keep looking.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's it. That's it. That's great. And, I think if... I don't know. I've had this happen with me with technology companies a lot, but they try to talk over my head. And, so, they can't bring it down to a level that I can understand. Because, just like a roofing contractor is in amazing craft man or woman, they may not be tech savvy. Now some are; it just depends. But, I know for me, personally, I can run a publishing group, and I can talk about technology, but a lot of people try to talk over my head. I think it's so important that whoever you're working with brings it down to brass tacks, where it makes sense.

Chuck Magee:
I agree. Wasn't it Einstein that said, "If you can't explain it simply, then you don't understand it well enough." And, a lot of times they will use acronyms that they picked up on, because they don't have a lot of experience and they can't get down to that technical level. And, that's exactly what they try to do. They try to use acronyms, and maybe industry specific words, that others that aren't in that would not know. And, typically when... And, I throw a lot of acronyms around too, but I try to explain what they are. Because, just like GMB... If you don't know what GMB is, Google My Business, you need to learn that one.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. I know Google My Business, but I've never heard it called GMB, so there you go. You got to kind of get your head around all these lovely acronyms.

Chuck Magee:
Yes. And, that's a huge one. You're going to hear GMB, GMB, GM-, because that's the most important... You may have this question lined up or anything, but the most important thing that any roofing company can do is work your Google My Business, your GMB. You might have equipment. You might have a fleet of 10 or 15 trucks. You might have thousands of dollars worth of tools, and all kinds of things. But, the most important asset you own is your Google My Business. I can promise you that.

Heidi Ellsworth:
So, while we're on that topic, I think this is really important because I think a lot of people are like... And, I was one of those, because we're national, and we aren't really a local business, but we just got our Google My Business a couple of years ago. And, I had to kind of go through that and understand it. Why don't you explain a little bit? How does a contractor even start to work on Google My Business, to make sure that they have it the right way?

Chuck Magee:
Yeah. Excellent question. And, we have a ton of free resources about Google My Business, because it's so important. That's a great way for us to introduce ourselves to a contractor. We signed up a contractor in Arkansas, I guess about three months ago. And, the reason he came on with us... He was a smaller contractor, and he's been watching all my videos, listening to the podcast, and he started doing these things. Well, in the month of, I think March or April, I think it was, he could pinpoint $6,000 that he made, that he knew came off of a podcast or video of mine. So, he said, "Hiring you, because now I can afford to pay you with what I'm doing." I said, "That's great." And, I had been working with him since November. So, we have a lot of resources that we just hand deliver, whether it be video, podcast, or PDFs. And, it will show them from verifying, and that GMB, all the way through weekly maintenance.

Chuck Magee:
So, Google loves a Google My Business that gets loving. So, you want it fully optimized; you want to work it. And, that is the reason it's so important. With some effort and with some reading, you can work it yourself. Now, you do need to work it every week, so it does get to be kind of a thing if you're trying to run a busy roofing company. But, you can get a lot... The leads don't cost... The calls, nor the messages, nor the clicks cost any money out of Google My Business, so it's really important. And, once you get into that local pack, and you don't do anything to trip up and get out of it, or let somebody beat you, then 44% of all clicks on page one to Google, go to that local pack. And, let's just face it, the majority of that goes to the number one guy.

Heidi Ellsworth:
`Yeah. Wow. That's really interesting. And, I do want to say for everyone listening, that these resources are on Roofers Coffee Shop Raise the Rank directory. We've been putting the podcast, all that kind of stuff... But, you can also go to raisetherank.com and get all of this information too. Did I say that right, Chuck? raisetherank.com?

Chuck Magee:
Yes.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yes? Good? Okay. So, one of the things that I would love to kind of talk about too, around... As we had talked about earlier, there's more to SEO than just the keywords. There's so much, and there's other technologies around that too. What are some of the other technologies, or maybe some of the other practices, that roofing contractors should be incorporating into their business, or asking about when they're talking to somebody handling this around SEO?

Chuck Magee:
Yeah. You're full of really good questions today. But, a CRM. Mine, theirs, anybody's, but get a CRM. You are not going to scale... I say you're not going to... I took on a client four or five years ago that was, I think, eight to 10 million dollars a year, and all their files were on the wall. They were the most organized machine I've ever seen. But, you are typically not going to scale a roofing company without a CRM. And, they immediately got so better organized, guys were having to come into the office to get an Eagle View. I mean, so there's where you were. So, now everybody can be on the same page at the same time. So, a CRM. And, whether it's mine or anybody else's, statistically, you should get a 30% bump from being in a CRM.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow.

Chuck Magee:
So, that is huge right there. And, another thing is going to be an automated Google review acquisition platform. So, you need an automated platform to help you go get those reviews. So, when you send that link out, you want to be able to have that automated platform send it out three more times behind the one that you did. And, if it's in a CRM that's integrated, you can just hit the CRM, and it will automatically shoot it out. So, in ours, you hit the Review Us button and it's going to make four attempts to get that review. And, it's not in itself going to get you the reviews. You've got to still talk to the client and all those things, but if you have a willing client, then it's going to really help you get that review. Google calls it review velocity.

Chuck Magee:
So, you want to get 10, 15, 20 a month, if you can. And, I can tell you this, the more successful companies that I have in my community, and that I see, those guys are getting Google reviews. Google reviews will lead to more referrals. You can build a roofing company, a successful one, with Google reviews.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow. Okay.

Chuck Magee:
Google's very own statistic is that when you hit 200 Google reviews that your gross revenue will double the next year. And, that's not because that you're just all of a sudden magically going to double, but you're doing the things that it takes to scale. You've got 200 plus reviews now, and that's making people think more and more about you. So, your reputation is just so much higher than everybody else's, they're going to go with you. They're going to listen to what you say, so you're going to get more upgrades. You're going to get a higher price per contract. And, that's what we want to be, high. Because, typically, the more money a homeowner pays, the happier they are with the project.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. And, one of the things, too, that you really make me think about... Is this something, as the contractors are looking at a company to work with, like Raise the Rank... Is this something that usually comes in a package? Is it reviews, an SEO, CRM, all those kind of things, or should they be looking separate places?

Chuck Magee:
Yeah, that's also a good question. And, I have done some work with Bruce Clay's bunch. Bruce Clay is... If you look him up in Wikipedia, he actually coined the term SEO back in, I think '95, '96. And, great group of people. And, here's what they're going to say. They're going to say, "Don't do packages." But, they also work with Target, and those kind of major players, BMW, Mercedes. So, they're in that big world of, "Okay, well, it might be a little bit different." And, I've worked with some realtors in the past, and things like that, but in the roofing world, it seems that most all of these guys have the same needs. They need Google My Business; they need Google reviews. They need a CRM. Some of the bigger guys are already in one and that's great; that's fine. They need SEO. They need help with the website.

Chuck Magee:
And, what we do is we have packages. We have starter packages. That's typically going to be GMB or GMB and SSA, because that gets them the two key things that they need to start with, GMB and a CRM. And, then they can graduate up into some other SEO, which is going to cost more. And, that's another thing, you need to look. If you've got somebody that's saying they're going to do SEO for you for $2.99 or $4.99 a month, I'm going to tell you, run. It can't be done; it can't be done proper.

Chuck Magee:
And, that's one of the reasons that so many agencies are not successful, is because they don't really do the nuts and bolts of what it takes to be there, because it's expensive. You've got to have writers. You've got to have people to deploy those pages. You've got to have back linkers. You've got to have citation builders. We've got 17 people on our staff now, and it just takes each and every one of them to take a client, go through the onboard sprint, and to keep them climbing in the rankings. It just is not cheap to do SEO.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, no. And, I think honestly, roofing contractors, of anyone, can understand this. People can go out, and they can get the cheapest roof out there, and they're going to not be happy. They're going to have problems. They're going to be replacing it sooner than later. And, it's just cheap. But, the contractors who offer quality, they offer the whole picture, the service, everything else that goes along with it, those are the ones that have the happy customers. It's not any different in technology. And, really what you're doing is much like... I'm just bringing this correlation because it's much like an exterior contractor, right? Okay, you need a roof, you need siding, you need doors, you need windows. What do you need? What time frame? What makes the most sense to protect your assets? SEO and technology really protects the assets of your business and...

Chuck Magee:
True enough.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. It makes so much sense to me. And, I think it's... I love this demystifying, all of that. So, as we're kind of looking at that... In talking to the contractors, and in kind of sharing with them, because I'm sure there's a lot of men and women out there right now who are thinking, "I want to be on that first page. I'm not happy with my company who says they're doing it, but I'm not there." What are some of the things that they should be doing right now? Where should they be going, besides, obviously, Raise the Rank? But, where should they be going, overall, to learn more, to get the resources they need to kind of understand all this?

Chuck Magee:
Yeah. And, that's a good point, because we vet our clients before we take them. So, you've got to fit into a particular spot to get to a certain package. Especially, if you're going to be doing things like lead nurturing, because you've got to be prepared to keep your statuses right in the CRM. So, if you don't live in a CRM, there's certain things that you're not going to be able to do. And, all of these things help you close more deals and statistically, you're going to close three out of 10. You might be better than that, but as with a sales staff, that's probably going to be about right, about three. So, you've got seven more, and six of those, statistically, are going to buy in the next 12 months. Now, is it going to be from you or the next guy that knocks? So, keep your lead nurturer going, and all of those things. So, you've got to know what you're doing, and you've got to ask the right questions, like what you're talking about. And...

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Chuck Magee:
Biggest thing is, get an explanation of what to do and how it's going to be done.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. That just makes so much sense to me. And, I would say reach out, too. So, one of the things that I see is that contractors, a lot of times... And, I understand that you're in the same local market, but a lot of times contractors don't reach out to other contractors and say... And, you said this at the very beginning, get referrals. Talk to other contractors and see how that company has worked for them. I know, Chuck, you and I were talking about some of the contractors you work with, who I'm friends with from Eagle View, and just some amazing contractors, to be able to talk to them, to say, "Hey, how did this work for you? What was the process? What was the onboarding? How did it look like?" You can start getting your team ready before you even take that initial step.

Chuck Magee:
Yes. And, it's just like right now, we have two of the platinum board members with Owens Corning. This is in our lineup, and we have a handful of platinums. So, normally when somebody wants to start talking to me, I'm going to say, "Well, let me pick you too. Let me pick somebody that's been with me for years, so you can see what it'll be, the success rate. And, let me get you with somebody that's kind of new with me, so you can ask them their own questions, like how long did it take, and all those kind of things." And, I can give you a roundabout, reasonable timeframe, depending on how old your company is, what market you're in. I can look at who you're up against. If you're up beside Skywalker and Guy Roofing, and some of those guys, and you're in these huge markets, it's going take a little bit longer than in a city where there's only 15 or 20,000 people.

Chuck Magee:
So, you're looking at your TAM, your total addressable market. And, when that's bigger, you don't have to always rank number one to get a lot more, if you can just get up in there and get into the hunt. Same thing with the Google My Business. Your total addressable market is going to show you your success rate. So, you've just got to get in the game, and you've got to start doing it. And, here's the thing. If you don't ever start, you won't ever get there.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right. Right. That's so true. That's so true. And, it's going so fast. I mean, COVID has just accelerated everything. It's all online, that this is where the consumers are finding their roofing. It's just critical for your business.

Chuck Magee:
Yeah. And, here's the thing. I signed on a platinum first of the year, and he was mad. He came on, and he called me up, and he was mad because he had talked to me earlier, and he said, "I'm mad at myself." Because, he didn't pull the trigger; he got busy and he just didn't do it. Then, he had a little store and he wasn't ranked. So he said, "Man, let's get in the game as fast as we can."

Heidi Ellsworth:
Let's do it. I love it. I love it. Well, we're coming to the end of this podcast, but I just want to go back one more time, because I think this is so important. I hear all the time, the skepticism and the just frustration with finding the right SEO companies. And, I think this podcast and this interview has really helped. So, I would recommend anybody out there listening to this, if you're frustrated, or if you don't think you're getting ranked in the right spot, or you need some help, Chuck is actually on Roofers Coffee Shop. We have consultations, so you can give him a call; you can talk to him. If you're in the R-Club, it's even a little bit longer.

Heidi Ellsworth:
So, think about what you're doing with that, and being able to really get someone who's willing. I mean, when a company is interviewing you as much as you're interviewing them, to make sure it's a good fit, and they're introducing you to other roofing contractors who have been through the same process. Now, you know that it's taking away a lot of the skepticism, the fear, and sometimes the scamminess of what we have all been seeing out there. So, Chuck, thank you so much for being here today and thank you for helping us demystify.

Chuck Magee:
It's been great. You know I love talking about this stuff. I mean, I just do. So...

Heidi Ellsworth:
Well, I learn something every time, I have to tell you. So, I love that. And, I appreciate all of you today for listening, for being a part of this podcast. As you know, you can find all of our podcasts under the Read Listen Watch initiative on rooferscoffeshop.com. But, you can also find us, even more important, on your favorite podcast channel. So, be sure to subscribe. Along with subscribing to that, YouTube, because you never know what's going to show up there too. Chuck, thank you again.

Chuck Magee:
Thanks, Heidi. It's always good to talk to you and see you.

Heidi Ellsworth:
It's a pleasure. And, thank you all for joining us. Have a great day and we'll see you on the next Roofing Road Trips.

Speaker 1:
Make sure to subscribe to our channel and leave a review. Thanks for listening. This has been Roofing Road Trips with Heidi from the rooferscoffeeshop.com