Brad Van Dam - The Future of Roof Perimeters - PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of an live interview with Brad Van Dam of Metal-Era. You can read the interview below or  listen to the podcast.

Speaker 1:
Welcome to Roofing Road Trips with Heidi. Explore the roofing industry through the eyes of a long term professional within the trade. Listen for insights, interviews, and exciting news in the roofing industry today.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Hello and welcome to another Roofing Road Trips from Roofer's Coffee Shop. This is Heidi Ellsworth and I am road tripping today, virtually over to Wisconsin to visit with my dear friend, Brad Van Dam, who is the vice president of sales for MTL. And you may say, what is MTL? Well, MTL is the parent company of Metal-Era and Hickman Edge Systems. Hello, and welcome to the show, Brad.

Brad Van Dam:
Hi Heidi. And thank you for having me. I'm digging that your road tripping into Wisconsin, and this is pretty cool.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I like this virtual road trips, although I was in your plant last fall and I was so impressed. It was the coolest plant tour, let me tell you. I was glad that was in real time, not virtual.

Brad Van Dam:
Very cool. And we were proud to have you, that was if I remember right, the very first meeting for the NWIR's newest chapter at the time in Wisconsin.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Brad Van Dam:
So we were very excited and it was awesome that you guys chose to host it here. So thank you.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Well, I tell you what, your team there did such an amazing job with the meeting and the tour and just I love the fact that MTL, Metal-Era, Hickman is so supportive of national women in roofing. It just makes... That's what we need. We need to all be working together. It's pretty cool.

Brad Van Dam:
Very cool.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Well, Brad, let's start out with... I always love to start out with, can you introduce yourself and tell all of our listeners a little bit about you and Metal-Era and Hickman?

Brad Van Dam:
Sure. So my journey started in San Diego, California. Actually, I was born in Wisconsin, but kind of grew up out in San Diego with my mom and I left Wisconsin to start a contracting business just out of college and did that with my uncle. I ran that business for about 18 years and that was sold in 2012. And after that, I came to work at Metal-Era at the time and have been at Metal-Era for 10 years now. So really enjoyed my time as a contractor, had about 50 employees there, did concrete coatings and polishing and kind of got introduced to the coatings world and then flipped over onto the manufacturing side at Metal-Era. Really awesome place and time, but it allowed me to also get involved at SPRI for the last roughly nine years. I've been volunteering my time at SPRI and participating on behalf of Metal-Era there.

Brad Van Dam:
In just this last year, they voted me in as the president for this term. So I am excited to serve our industry further and would just say that as I look back on the 10 years, the industry has been nothing but welcoming in allowing me the opportunity to participate, learn and become a big part of it. So this has been an awesome experience for me. I'm having a lot of fun and it's kind of where I'm at. One of those people having fun.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, exactly. Well it's roofing.

Brad Van Dam:
Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And congratulations about being president of SPRI. That is amazing. You guys do such great work there. I was just with Randy over at the roofing day last week, I think, couple weeks ago. It's all flying by. But yeah, just an amazing group over there. So thank you for all you do. And it's so important. Okay. Why don't you share a little bit of history about president and then kind of work your way into the acquisition of Hickman because I think everybody would love to hear that story.

Brad Van Dam:
Yeah. It was a lot of fun for us on the executive team and I'll start with our history. Right now, president MTL employs about 200 teammates. We have facilities now in Waxhaw and Asheville, both of them are really exceptional beer towns [inaudible 00:04:14] but this was actually... The business was founded in 1980 and it was really servicing local customers here in Wisconsin. In 1989, Gene and Becky Mallinger purchased the business from the original ownership group and rest of Gene's family, his sons came into the business and started working and helping to grow the business as it kind of separated out and began to grow its national footprint. The business started investing in robotics in roughly 2008. And you, having seen the facility, know that we've put a lot of effort into that. We believe productivity is a very important key factor and this was one way for us to do that. Along the way, Tony Mallinger, Gene's oldest son became our president and CEO and he is our leader today. In 2020, we brought in an equity partner to help drive additional revenue and growth.

Brad Van Dam:
And they've been awesome to work with, helped us through the pandemic and we've had a wonderful experience. And in 2021, we acquired the OMG Edge Systems business in Asheville. So as I transitioned to that part, I'll tell you that we knew we needed to get a little closer to customers. And in particular, one of our fastest growing areas was the south. We were shipping and our shipping a lot of products into a lot of the wind regions and areas that struggle with hurricanes and tornadoes there. And so for us, it really was common sense that we were going to head down and have another facility at some point, the opportunity to acquire the OMG Edge Systems business and bring that into the fold kind of popped its head up and wasn't something necessarily we were expecting. But when it came to pass, it really was a great thing for both businesses.

Brad Van Dam:
And it really allowed us access to a couple things. First and foremost, the people. There's a tremendous amount of experience in the Asheville plant, a tremendous group of humans, really good culture, a lot of effort down there. And that was something amazing to kind of see and bring into the fold. And then the second thing, and this one was... I'm going to speak personally. I really enjoyed being able to bring back the Hickman brand name and obviously, I competed against the brand for a long time. So it was-

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Brad Van Dam:
Kind of weird for me to say, I really enjoyed bringing it back, but I realized through the course of reviewing it, the Hickman business had been an operation for 75 years and had really had a long tie to that brand name. And it meant a lot to the people that are there.

Brad Van Dam:
And the average tenure of the folks that are in Asheville in the business is very long and substantial. A lot of folks that meant a lot to, and one of my favorite stories from the first day, Tony went down, he surprised us on the executive committee and even the team there and had Hickman Edge Systems logos made and printed for all the employees down there. And so the first day, he came in and the announcement was made that the acquisition had occurred. We stepped in and said, "Hey, we're here to bring back this brand name and work with you to grow it." So-

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow.

Brad Van Dam:
Really cool experience. And it was awesome. So all integrations are difficult and it's tough for the people that are going through them, but I will tell you that we've been nothing but impressed with the people and again, the good humans that are a part of that group. So it's been a lot of fun.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I worked with Scott Hickman back in the day and in my career and I've been to that Asheville plant and it is tremendous and it is... You're right. The people are amazing. The location's amazing. And it's just, how cool that you were able to bring that name back and have both Metal-Era and Hickman, which are so well branded and known in the industry. That's really exciting.

Brad Van Dam:
Yeah. One of my favorite sayings the last couple of years, and I write a new one on the board every week, but I keep this one up is culture health equals business health, especially during a pandemic. And so I wrote that down and just to highlight, Metal-Era through 2020 and 2021 was a great places to work nominee. Obviously, moving down into Asheville, I think it was important for all the teammates there to see reinvestment. We definitely have done that. Finally now, some of the equipment we purchased in 2020 has begun or 2021 has begun showing up and we've actually been integrating new equipment, new processes and the back and forth with training and new products has been amazing. So it's very cool to see that culture grow together and it's been a lot of fun for that part.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. Very cool. Very cool. And then together you have just launched something that's again, a game changer for the industry, the Falcon Roof Measurement Tool.

Brad Van Dam:
Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth:
First of all, awesome name. Second of all, tell us about it. What is it?

Brad Van Dam:
Yeah. Our product management group loves the name. So they're all in on it. We have a Falcon awesome hashtag they've been throwing around, you know how good it is.

Brad Van Dam:
And even the other day, an actual Falcon showed up on a job site and was staring at us while we were operating it. So it was really cool to see.

Heidi Ellsworth:
That's perfect. I love it.

Brad Van Dam:
So the Falcon is really the culmination of a little over a year and a half, almost two years of investment in new technology for us. It's the combination of some new technology and existing technology, but it really allowed us the ability to get closer to measuring, I don't want to say perfection, but accuracy to the point where we're within thousands of an inch and tenths of a degree and eliminate a lot of the human error. We have a big drive as you saw in the plant for productivity and automation. And this really was a huge step for us in doing that. The product management team that's leading it, has done a great job. It's been really interesting to watch kind of the culmination of, can we add this? What's next? What's the future of it? But to summarize it, essentially this tool and app allows for the user of the tool to be able to, in real time, measure the perimeter of a roof, create an installation and fabrication map and eliminate error in details down to again, the thousandth of an inch or 10th of a degree.

Brad Van Dam:
And it's awesome to see the reception. We launched it at IBEC this year, thinking the consultants would really enjoy it. They did. I felt we had one of the best attended booths of the show. And certainly, a lot of folks were very interested in not only the current use of the technology, but what do we do with it in the future? Can we locate more? How do we do this better? So it's been awesome. We're deploying it now, with our region techs. So we have currently six region techs that will go out and field measure for the customer and the contractor. It's been how fast can we get more of these out there and quickly impact that productivity level for the contractor. So a lot of fun. And a lot of time getting to here and now kind of the exciting part starts. How do we get it out to more people and do it faster and better?

Heidi Ellsworth:
Exactly. And we know how important that is, that exact measurements for the perimeter edge, so that everything works well. And with my past experience with EagleView, I just know that sometimes that edge just never gets captured exactly like that. So this is a great tool to bring, to make sure that there's nothing more important than that perimeter edge to protect the building.

Brad Van Dam:
Yeah. The industry has generally accepted that about 60% of roof failure in a high wind event occurs at the perimeter edge. And FM did a study on this with about 145 losses in wind events, a number of years back. And they attributed it to just over 59%, I believe. So, we've really kind of tied ourselves to, let's make sure that we're doing a good job on the perimeter. It secures the membrane. It's the first thing the wind hits, obviously. If it goes, the rest of the roof goes, I think the thing that's been lost is there's a lot of investment by the contractor in getting that right. And there's thousands of different contractors throughout the U.S. that are doing this. They all do it a little different. A lot of them are got their own tricks and certainly years of experience and some are having trouble finding experienced folks in that category.

Brad Van Dam:
What's really awesome about this deployment, is that a less experienced tech or someone who normally would have to hand draw this with a lot of chances for error, now can physically do this with audible reminders of when to measure, when to stop. It creates that map on the roof, functionally for everyone. And just as an example, on the labor saving side, for the contractor, one of our techs can typically measure several hundred of these roofs in a year. And that's probably more than what a contractor is going to want to deploy one employee from their team to be able to do, given that this is just really an expense in the overall process.

Brad Van Dam:
Roof edge is not a money making necessarily opportunity for a lot of contractors. It's an expense, right? It's just like they need to buy, they need to buy membrane, or they need to buy ISO. So end result, we've tried to make this as efficient as possible. One tech can now handle multiple contractors or 20 or 30 or 50 contractors, do several hundred roofs in a year with newer technology that's faster. And then the back end, which is my favorite part of this, there's a map that's generated that shows a contractor where to install. And this part goes here, huge difference from what typically has done in the world, which is, Hey, we fabricated it, ship it out and good luck figuring out which part goes where.

Heidi Ellsworth:
But this tells them exactly.

Brad Van Dam:
It does. It does. And that's a huge piece. We definitely were excited about that. Part of it, along with the accuracy, how do we make sure that what an owner specifies, a consultant specifies, an architect specifies, and then what the contractor gets on the site actually matches to the site conditions. So-

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow.

Brad Van Dam:
Very exciting.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Very exciting. So you receive some great feedback from the consultants at IBEC. What kind of feedback are you getting from contractors?

Brad Van Dam:
Yeah, so we've just started demoing it for contractors now, right after IBEC, we scheduled a few to showcase it. We've had a lot of watches on the video that's been great and we had our first specifier ask us, "Hey, can we specify that the project needs to be measured with the Falcon?" I thought that was neat.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow. That's great.

Brad Van Dam:
Then I flip over into, if I'm a contractor, my brain goes to, how do I use this to speed up my process or to help with productivity? We did demo it to a number of the larger contractors in the U.S. And we've got a plan to continue that demoing. It's not fast enough for us. We'd like to show everyone right away, but it's slowly but surely coming around. And all the feedback has been good, that a number asked if they can buy the tool, how many more can we get? How fast can we get them out there? And so that feedback tells us there's a significant desire to utilize this productivity tool, to help contractors with right now, what is the number one problem. It's where are we going to find more labor and/or more productivity to be able to overcome the labor shortage?

Heidi Ellsworth:
And technology's the answer, right? We all know that technology continues to lead the way. And so for you to be able to bring this kind of app, this kind of technology to the rooftop, especially to such an important part that, the perimeter that protects that building, how do you see this kind of revolutionizing the building science of the roof parameter? It's a big deal.

Brad Van Dam:
Yeah. So I think there's a couple things it's going to do, as contractors start to see how easy it is, right. Hey, I can pick up the phone, I can call and I can schedule. And this gets out here to do this measurement for me. And we get this done and I get a paint by numbers map. And boy, this is an easy way for me to take a couple hundred hours out of a project that I normally would have and redeploy those a hundred hours or 200 hours into installation where, functionally, I can get on and off a roof faster. I think that adoption is going to start to ramp up and hopefully hockey stick. But if it goes a little slower than that, we want to make sure the tech is right.

Brad Van Dam:
I think the second thing that'll come out of it is really going to be much like with all of our products, all of a sudden a contractor's going to see it and go, "Well, can I use it to do this? Or can I use it to do that? Or how else can we use this?" And we've already had some of those conversations that really turned into what else could this be used for, in particular mapping out a roof where no map exists, or you need to be closer to the numbers that needs to be more accurate in order to create pitch or whatever that may be. So it's a unique thing. We're definitely invested heavily in making sure that this grows. I think we want to do it in a way that's going to help the productivity issue in the market.

Brad Van Dam:
My biggest summary from roofing day and being a part of that and one of my huge takeaways from that was there is a definitely a productivity issue in construction in general. Roofing is probably done better with its transition to a lot of newer products that are able to go on faster, quicker, but there still exists a demographic problem as it relates to our workforce, as it relates to our ability to attract workers into roofing from the workforce. It definitely is a great career. And unfortunately, without new technology coming in to help both the productivity and perception of the industry, becomes very hard to draw folks in. Worst stat I read, the labor participation rate is functionally forecasted to go down back to the levels it was around the 60% range, back to what it was in April of 2020.

Brad Van Dam:
We all kind of remember how bad it got when everybody was sitting at home forced, think of what it feels like if we don't have massive population growth or immigration reform and functionally, the labor participation rate continues to drop as it's forecasted to do. I think that really hit home for me, that we all have a responsibility to look for ways as a group to continue to improve productivity and then find ways to make sure that it's moved ahead in the industry instead of, we can't do it because we've always done it that way.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right. Oh, I agree so much. And really, yeah. I know that it was... Being in Washington DC and really listening to what all is going on, seeing it every day, I hear it, as you do, we hear it every single day. Technology is the answer to be able to bring this. And so with what you're doing, bringing the Falcon out there, it's like every piece of technology that we continue to bring to the rooftop, is making a huge difference.

Brad Van Dam:
How we feel. That's how can we do it together and make sure that feeling is fact is important. And that takes contractors adoption. It takes contractor education. It takes us having a concerted effort to get it out and get the word out.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. So let's kind of go through that a little bit more. There's a lot of things that the Falcon's doing. We just talked about productivity and being able to do so many more roofs and being able to have people focus on other things on the roof. But you also talk a lot about that this is going to help with price relief and quick ship solutions.

Brad Van Dam:
Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Explain that.

Brad Van Dam:
Yeah. So I think a couple things come from that. The process today of measuring a roof is done at the end of a job, right? Usually the membrane has had to be placed over the perimeter edge. You've got it over the parapet wall. The contractor is almost complete with the project and really is waiting to get paid for the metal to go on and functionally be able to close out the project. So the faster we can go from measurement to production to onsite, the quicker we're going to be. And so I mentioned earlier that with our acquisition of OMG Edge Systems and the conversion to Hickman, we got closer to our customers. We also reinvested in new equipment. So we've put quite a bit of new capacity online that started actually coming online in March of this year and is continuing online as our paint booth is updated and is being in place.

Brad Van Dam:
And our additional equipment is onboarded, training is done. And so what we're planning to do is speed up the process for clients from the time they field measure to the time it's ordered and shipped, and then, to try to help with adoption, we think contractors have just taken a beating the last two years with price increases. I know from our percentage we have as well, that the overall cost of metal, the availability, everything that's come with it, has been very difficult for us to process as this has gone on. So our plan is to basically come back and offer some price relief to contractors and say, "Look, work with us on these projects. Let's look at some of the contractor discretionary products that are in the market that maybe now our new capacity can get to them faster."

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Brad Van Dam:
And deploy the savings that we get and being closer and being able to produce it quicker and faster for them in cost relief. That's a strategy that we're headed down for hopefully this next two weeks, we want to bring something out for contractors on that front and try to help them because from my 18 years as a contractor previously, I don't know how they're all dealing with this, to the extent that they are. They're doing a great job in many cases of finding their way through what is a difficult cycle. And I'm not sure many of them have seen anything like this before. I certainly have not. And I just know that we have to help each other. So that's where we're headed. Price relief, speed, quick ship products that we know we can get to them fast. That's what we're aiming at with these.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Well, I have to tell you, I do a lot of podcasts and I think this is the first one in a very long time where I've heard what you just said.

Brad Van Dam:
Price relief.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Get some price relief.

Brad Van Dam:
Yeah. Maybe we should start a trend hashtag price relief.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And increase production. Two things, I'm like going, whoa, that's awesome.

Brad Van Dam:
Yeah. We were very excited to know that there was new increased capacity coming on board around this time. We obviously had hoped that it would come on board sooner. Once we had acquired OMG Edge Systems down in Nashville, we knew right then, we were going to invest in new equipment and bring on new capacity at issue is really, we were stuck in delays too. So getting equipment shipped in, getting it set up, doing the training, all of those things were exacerbated by the pandemic and everything that went on with the supply chain shortage. So we're definitely excited about bringing out the new tech. We're definitely excited about getting things faster to customers. And we're definitely excited about being able to offer some price relief with the capacity expansion. So that's what we're aiming for and we're going to keep plugging.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Man, that's great. Okay. So I always like to kind of bring it down to brass tacks, right? I'm a contractor and I want to start incorporating the Falcon into my business. From the beginning, how do they do it?

Brad Van Dam:
Yep. Easiest way to do that. Pick up a phone call, either Metal-Era or Hickman's rep in the area, any one of our OEM partners. We work with almost every major membrane manufacturer who is able to use our products and put it into their total systems. Any one of them, if you request a pre-manufactured roof edge, knows how to get to us and is able to get those products in. You can also directly call into Metal-Era or Hickman Edge Systems, one of the two, and we are absolutely happy to bring you through our customer service and technical sales group. An email is a great way to do it. Quote @metalera.com, quote @hickmanedgesystems.com. These are great places. We're happy to provide feedback on that right away. The average quote time for our group is well under an hour. I think last I check they were in that 37 to 45 minutes range. There's a lot of ways to find their way through this. And I'm sure we'll give you a call to action button that when we post the podcast, anybody can jump in. So-

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yes, it's all in the directory.

Brad Van Dam:
It's all the directory. So I definitely think that we're ready to take more. Our reps are. We work through most of the major distributors in the country, that they're capable of getting quotes directly. If you're buying direct through a distribution arm and many of them are even stocking our products now. So it's pretty easy to get us when you want to use us. I think the biggest thing is give us some more shots and let us fight with you on this. We want to try to find ways to work together.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Pretty cool. I love that. And so once they get a hold of the rep and get a hold of you.

Brad Van Dam:
Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And just real quick walk, them through the process of how do you get that technology? Is there rep going to come out to the roof with the technology? Are they going to do it? How's that going to work?

Brad Van Dam:
Yeah, it makes sense. So the best way to get the technology out now is to request a field measure for a complex project, that you know you're going to use Metal-Era, Hickman, right? We are not deploying it for folks that are having... They're going to self manufacture, right? We're not charging for the service. We're just saying, "Hey, when you're using metal air products, we're offering this up for you to be able to do." Best example I have, we had a customer send us a photo of a project that looks like a butterfly and almost the entire roof is a radius. There is not a better tool on the market than this, to be able to do. And so pretty big project, large investment in a welded radius, coping, lot of transitions that would be very difficult to measure by hand. Customer reached out, sent an email request with a photo and said, "Hey, I'm interested in having the Falcon measure this project."

Brad Van Dam:
And my understanding is we're flying a tech out to go do that. They're going to work with Metal-Era on it. And functionally that's how we try to make it. So people can use this for these complex and larger projects and use it with confidence. And so, best example there, do you need me to come out and measure a drip edge, two and a half inch going into a gutter? Probably not. So, functionally, complex coping, lots of miters, radius, concave, convex, things like that. That's really where the target would be. And just reaching out and asking for that, our team knows how to get in touch with the RTSs, our region techs and get that scheduled.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Those are the jobs that take so much time.

Brad Van Dam:
Yes.

Heidi Ellsworth:
It's so critical to have it accurate for the installation. So it makes so much sense.

Brad Van Dam:
I think that the other thing that's very helpful for contractors, when I was one, risk was a big factor, right? What's my risk versus the reward I'm going to get on it? And so imagine the cost of remanufacturing, a custom radius postcoded miter, that may be a significant portion of the overall contract in fabrication because of the mismeasurement. And so when we send a tech out to do that, functionally, we own our measurements and if it's a problem or an error, we step up to the plate and handle it. Those that have worked with Metal-Era certainly would know that's our reputation. And this is no different. This is us trying to say, "Okay, let's do it even better than we've always done it and use some technology to get there faster and quicker."

Heidi Ellsworth:
And when they get it's marked and I know which where it goes. So that's awesome.

Brad Van Dam:
That helps a lot, right?

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. From beginning to end. You're offering a service is going to make a huge difference. Well, congratulations. Congratulations on Hickman and Metal-Era being together. Congratulations on the Falcon. You're on a roll, some really cool stuff happening.

Brad Van Dam:
Yeah. I look back and I go, man, if 2020 and 2021 weren't COVID year and everything else, how far would we be? And I still come back to it and say, "I am so grateful for how our team has worked together through the course of this, could not be prouder of how hard the overall group has worked together to bring out the Falcon, to fight through the supply chain shortages, to work with customers." It's just been fun to be a part of as a teammate. And so, we're excited to see what's ever on the backside of this whole thing with inflation, we're excited to see whatever's on the front end. And right now today, our focus is how do we help every customer we can.

Heidi Ellsworth:
That's great. Working together. That's what it's all about.

Brad Van Dam:
Yep.

Heidi Ellsworth:
We're going to get through all this craziness. We're doing okay, so far.

Brad Van Dam:
Agreed.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. Well, thank you again. And thank you also for everyone out there. Metal-Era is on Roofer's Coffee Shop, full directory, all the information about the Falcon plus history. Just some great information on a great company. So we're so happy to have you being a part of the coffee shop.

Brad Van Dam:
Totally appreciate the time. Thank you so much for this. And I look forward to making fun of myself when I watch this back.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Perfect. Perfect. Well, I tell you what, there's a lot of people out there right now with headphones and listening to us as they're maybe even tearing off a roof or maybe measuring. You never know.

Brad Van Dam:
You never know.

Heidi Ellsworth:
You never know. Well, thank you again, Brad. I love it, the great conversation. And I want to say thank you to everybody out there who's listening. We appreciate you. Please visit the Metal-Era directory on Roofer's Coffee Shop, and learn about all of these great innovations and everything that's happening over there. Plus be sure to listen to all of our podcasts under the read list and watch initiative on rooferscoffeeshop.com or on your favorite podcast channel. Be sure that you subscribe and hit that notification. So you don't miss a single podcast. Thank you so much. And we'll see you next time on Roofing Road Trips.

Speaker 1:
Make sure to subscribe to our channel and leave a review. Thanks for listening. This has been Roofing Road Trips with Heidi from the rooferscoffeeshop.com.