Brad Van Dam – A SPRI Year of Success - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Brad Van Dam of Metal-Era. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Intro: Welcome to Roofing Road Trips, the podcast that takes you on a thrilling journey across the world of roofing. From fascinating interviews with roofing experts to on-the-road adventures, we'll uncover the stories, innovations and challenges that shape the rooftops over our heads. So fasten your seatbelts and join us as we embark on this exciting Roofing Road Trip.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Hello. We are back at the International Roofing Show, or Expo, I should say, and we are live on the Coffee Conversations Live Soundstage, sponsored by SRS. And what we are doing right now, we're doing a live Roofing Road Trips. So I know you listen to them on the podcast. You're going to be able to hear this on the podcast channels too, but this is one of the first times, I think, we're doing it live right here.

Brad Van Dam: It's big pressure.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right here.

Brad Van Dam: Going live. Going live.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So, Brad... I have my best friend, Brad Van Dam here from Metal-Era or Metal Holdings. And we're going to have a little Roofing Road Trip, talk about what's going on.

Brad Van Dam: Let's do it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I know. Let's do it. Okay. So let's start out. Can you introduce yourself, tell everybody who you are?

Brad Van Dam: Sure. Thank you. I am Brad Van Dam. I am the vice president of sales for MTL Holdings. I am also the current past president for SPRI, the Single Ply Roofing Industry. So those are really my current credentials that I can share. And in addition to that, I also serve on some other not-for-profit boards, one for a volleyball program that's very important to me, so...

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's very cool. I love it. See, I like the big picture. I like to hear everything that's going on in our lives because I know it's hard to believe, we're not all roofing all the time.

Brad Van Dam: This is true. Yes.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Every once in a while we have a little bit of a life outside of that. So speaking of roofing, why don't you tell us a little bit about your history in the roofing industry?

Brad Van Dam: So yep. I came back into construction but on the roofing side about 12 and a half years ago. Prior to that I had been a contractor for about 18 years on the flooring side.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh, cool.

Brad Van Dam: So, I went from the ground to the ceiling and joined MTL Holdings, at the time called Metal-Era, to help essentially a family business and continue their growth path. So that was back in 2012. And so now we're much farther along than we were back then. We've grown a lot. And I've been fortunate to be a part of that growth with a lot of amazing teammates. So when I started, we had about 50 employees, and now I'm part of a team of about 300.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow.

Brad Van Dam: It's been just great, so...

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So, we were just talking about the growth of our businesses and so yeah. Yeah. You kind of... Yeah, it's a lot bigger.

Brad Van Dam: It's a lot larger as is yours, so... And those are all good things, good opportunities for people upskilling, everything that you can do to help people continue their growth. So seeing not only the company growth, but the teammate growth at the company is one of my favorite parts.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Really the culture. The culture has changed over the years in the roofing industry. From when I first got in 30 years ago, I've seen a lot of changes on just people first. I mean, it's always been a great industry, but we have seen an evolution.

Brad Van Dam: If you don't have good people, your processes will eventually break down. You have good process, you can attract good people to keep moving.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Exactly.

Brad Van Dam: So, I think roofing has a lot of wonderful humans and it's just nice to be a part of it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And we've got a lot more process.

Brad Van Dam: Yeah. There's a lot of process.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: A lot of process going in there.

Brad Van Dam: That is a true statement.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So, one of the things that we wanted to get this Roofing Road Trips to talk a little bit about the Single Ply Roofing Industry, SPRI. So I was so honored to be at the winter meeting in January. We were both talking about neither one of us felt great at that meeting. So it was a little rough. We were actually going to do it live there. But why don't you tell us just a little bit about SPRI and what its mission is? Just give us a little bit of flavor for that.

Brad Van Dam: So SPRI is such a unique organization. In the roofing industry, it's a collection of the folks that are on the manufacturing side to compete with each other on day-to-day, but come together at SPRI to try to advance the mission, technical resources, code, compliance, new codes, advancing the roofing industry together. So they find common ground on an issue and then work together to try to advance that code position, also create white papers. They create resources, technical resources, for those that are designers of record. And really it's a great place to go and collaborate about making the technical portion of roofing, particularly single ply, better and moving that further. They also do some collecting and statistics to track where the industry is moving.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love that, the statistics. Every month or every quarter we see-

Brad Van Dam: Every month in addition to every quarter. Now that's a member benefit and certain members get that. And certainly that's proprietary, not something they'd share, but what it does do is really help show that the roofing industry as a whole on the single ply side continues to advance at a very rapid rate and has done a wonderful job of really bringing to market a good solution for low slope roofs, so...

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It really has. I mean, when I went to that meeting, even not feeling that great, I was so taken aback by how close the group was. I mean, Brad, you know. I go to a lot of meetings. I'm in a lot of different places. And I was just like, "Wow. This is such a great group." And everybody was working towards the same, through codes, through technical, really a lot of passion.

Brad Van Dam: Yeah. I've coached volleyball for a very long time, and one of my favorite things is relating my experience coaching and being on teams to being at SPRI in various roles, maybe a committee chair or in a treasure role or president role, whatever it is. It's like a well-run team. You have different strengths. You have different weaknesses. And in the end, you're all working towards the common goal, win the game or, in the case of SPRI, advance the industry technologies. And you're right. Having a culture like that... Probably one of the best parts about SPRI is everybody's working towards that same goal. They put aside differences and they work together to advance the codes. So it's been a lot of fun. Just absolutely loved my time there and my time as president was probably one of the most rewarding parts of my career. You don't get paid to serve there, but what you get back in certainly the camaraderie and the support, it's absolutely unbelievable and I recommend it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: The next president is Scott Carpenter.

Brad Van Dam: Oh, man. I cannot ask for a better president.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: You have to listen to the podcast I did with Scott. I did do that one actually at SPRI. And it was so great. These two, Scott and Brad, are just so perfect. I mean, they really are leading that organization to continue to do great things.

Brad Van Dam: It's amazing all the presidents SPRI has had, and they've done a good job of having accessory manufacturers participate, having membrane manufacturers participate. There's been amazing women, amazing men who have done it. It just like the bullpen of talent in that group is just amazing. And Scott is by far going to be one of the best that we've had. And every time it's just great. So I'm very excited for Scott. I'll be there to support him any way I can. The group itself supports him and certainly we believe in what he's doing, so...

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That is so good. So one of the questions I wanted to talk about knowing that not everyone sees the numbers that's going on, the stuff like that, but I would just love between SPRI, your business, just your involvement in the industry on so many levels, what are you seeing for 2024? What are some of the trends? What are some of the things that folks out there should be thinking about?

Brad Van Dam: Yeah. SPRI's legal counsel will say I cannot talk about the SPRI data in certain forums.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right. Okay. I get that.

Brad Van Dam: So, what I would share is I think the industry believed and saw that there was a significant amount of hoarding and inventory increases that happened throughout the industry during that period of '21 into '22 and onto '23. That inventory certainly has seemed to have worked itself out in 2023. And just for some perspective and what we saw in our business on the metal side, for roughly a year's period, there was a significant downturn in the activity level versus the use of inventory. And the last time that appeared to happen in our data on our side, being the metal side, was after that 2008, 2009 period.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I remember that well.

Brad Van Dam: And we all remember. There was a long period after that we were recovering and working our way through. The time after COVID certainly didn't look the same. We ramped up very quick. We got back to work. It was great. One of the things in the message, at least that I've taken away from the experience in '08 and '09 and now this experience of inventory and the shortages to then hoarding that happened or whatever you want to call that, the period after '08, '09, the following period for roughly two years was some of the most robust growth the industry had seen in a very long time. So history doesn't always repeat itself, but generally rhyme. I think Twain might've said that. In the end, I personally believe that the activity will begin to pick up and we could be in store for some very good growth. Obviously, macro conditions, everything else happening in the world.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: The lovely election year.

Brad Van Dam: We don't know what rates are, election year. None of us have a crystal ball. Just generally speaking, history has shown that when we've had a tough time relative to the industry and activity, for whatever reason, the industry bounces back.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It does. It does.

Brad Van Dam: And I feel like it's going to be a good year there. Just from the data we've seen on the new construction side, it appears that it'll be maybe a slower year but a growth year. And so if there is enough growth, and that was reported actually at SPRI from some of the speakers we had, that we should still see-

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Great economists. Yeah.

Brad Van Dam: Yes. Oh. Unbelievable. Again, the resources there are great to see, and it was very helpful for us. So we at MTL are feeling very positive about it. I think one of the big indicators for us has been the Bureau of Labor's reporting on construction labor. If you watch that, it's bounced back to some of its highest levels, back to pre-COVID, 2019 levels of construction participation on the labor side. You can't build it, you can't roof it if you don't have people to do that installation. That certainly is probably the biggest challenge remaining for the industry is how do we get future growth. But I think there's enough labor, talented contractors, talented workers in the industry that are going to be able to continue this growth into '24. Got to figure out some things for beyond that, right, but-

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. We're hoping. We're going to [inaudible 00:11:05]. Yeah.

Brad Van Dam: You did ask me just about the year. So-

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. We're going to go just '24. But I do think there's just a creativeness and a tenacity of the American economy that has befuddled everyone. And I've loved that because listening... We go to all these meetings. After SPRI, I went to the Metal Construction Association. Both had economists. Both of them admitted they didn't really know.

Brad Van Dam: They have no idea.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: They have no idea.

Brad Van Dam: Like, "We're guessing."

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Because COVID just took everything and threw it up in the air, but it seems like there's just this, I like it when I hear what you just said, a slow growth.

Brad Van Dam: I think one thing that's also coming back, we saw with the offshore issues relative to supply chain and also the way supply chain, let's say, broke down during that period, not only just COVID, but with some of the shortages generated past that, there's been some more on-shoring of manufacturing in the United States. So we're an American manufacturer. We have three locations now in the US, going from one back in that timeframe up to 2020, now with three locations. We believe in American manufacturing. We certainly have done everything we can to invest in additional robotics, automation, to try to advance that. A lot of people are starting to do that. And they get that this is a great place to invest. It's a great place to invest in people, in businesses.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Exactly.

Brad Van Dam: In spite of whatever the interest rate is at the individual moment. What other choices and what better places are there, America's really proven over the years that it's not a bad place to go, so-

Heidi J. Ellsworth: No. It's not a bad place and we're tenacious. I think it's important. So I've toured your plant and love it. I love plant tours. You all know that, is one of my favorite things. And what I saw with your robotics and with your technology, I think that is also just such a key to the future, because I know a lot of people would be like, "Well, it's taking jobs," but it really isn't. Actually we don't have enough people to do the jobs. So with this kind of technology now you're uplifting all of your folks. Tell us a little bit about that.

Brad Van Dam: So, we actually are in the middle of a large CapEx expansion now to add additional robotics to the facilities. So Waukesha, the one you toured, just got a new robotic update in one of our cells. We have a new robotic cell coming into Asheville that's going to be installed sometime in the first quarter. And we have a robotic operating, I don't want to say top secret, but a program that we're going to be launching in our Indianapolis facility-

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Remember, you heard it here.

Brad Van Dam: Which is going to advance some new products for us and provide some more automation. At the core of it, you talked about upskilling and more opportunity for our people, we don't anticipate any of those investments will lead to any drop in our employment. We believe that we'll be able to upskill those folks that were operating maybe something that's gotten automated to maybe a core function we aren't able to automate and to help fund our growth. In addition, and you hit on it, and we talked about it earlier in the construction labor, the industry is struggling with that entire process of getting labor, training labor, keeping labor, getting more labor to continue its growth.

In the case of parts like ours that you can buy from automated systems and process versus making with labor that is a scarce commodity in a roofer's business, I think a lot of roofers are starting to see this is very similar to the transition maybe from when we made roofs on the roof instead of today where we assemble sheets with fasteners and other components and adhesives that are manufactured in other facilities. And the roofing contractor assembles the roof, does a great job of doing those portions of it, but no longer has to manufacture everything they want to install. And for us, the ability to continue advancing the industry with more capacity without losing workers or taking workers down a different path or getting them out of the industry because you're cutting jobs, we try to upskill.

I think I gave you the example on the tour. We had a young gentleman that came into our plant. He had started with us in a high school program that we call Project Launch and partner with. And that Launch program basically had him come into our facility, learn about what we do. After that, he went to a technical college down the road that we partner with in what we call a dual enrollment program, college credit while they work at our facility and plant, in his case, learning welding. Once in the facility working for us in that capacity, then trained on doing additional detailing, takeoffs, CAD, worked into a new position in office, going from a blue collar to a white collar position. And at no point was there any shame or difference. It's just advancing. How do we take a person that comes in and move them further up the skill ladder to lift everybody up? It's probably been one of the funnest parts about being at MTL for the time I've been here, so...

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I bet I love it. Yeah. Well, and when you think about it, the next generation is used to technology. They're used to seeing robotics. They're used to doing all these things. And so it makes sense. It makes sense that we are upskilling, I love that term, upskilling, and really bringing. But I also want to go back too because I think this is really important for the contractors out there listening to this, is to be able to do that on the roof with prefabricated parts, whether it's gutters or edge metal, all of the different things that Metal Holdings does, I think that's really important to really be thinking about in 2024 too, is how are you making it easier on the roof so you're attracting more people who are thinking, "Hey. This is a cool job," and there's a career path?

Brad Van Dam: Yeah. I think the part we've seen is a lot of contractors historically had perceived us as a competitor to their own fabrication. Where we've gone in and serviced customers that have tried our parts or maybe it was specified and they used it and they've learned that, "Hey. We're trying to cut out 20 or 30% of the labor that you can now take to spend on other items that functionally it's going to get you farther, maybe your core competency. Maybe you don't have to have another couple million dollars of CapEx investment to keep your own metal shop operating or advancing." Reality is that tide has changed or is changing. We're definitely seeing a trend in the industry. Just look at subcontracting. That's moved a massive wave from where it started. Just look at the rise of single ply from where that started, functionally versus bringing out tank trucks and mopping the roof and manufacturing it on the roof.

These are all natural progressions. We can jump on them and ride them faster. We can wait a little while and vet them out and make sure that it's good. I think that the time of vetting out prefabricated versus self-fabricated is certainly... It's been a number of years and a lot of people are starting to understand that the labor shortage just isn't going to change quickly.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It's not going to change. And what employees, what skilled talent are going to be looking for. I think that is the big change. They're going to be expecting more automation, cleaner jobs. They're going to be expecting a lot of this. And so you're making that all happen.

Brad Van Dam: We try.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. I love it. I love it.

Brad Van Dam: We try.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So, I do want to make sure that we let everybody know too how to... And I'm circling back here because I love our conversation. Man, it's great. But I'm going to circle back here to end on SPRI. Just how can people be involved with SPRI? How can they... Not just being members, although that would be great, great to be a member, but also where can they get the information? How can they incorporate it into their business to help them?

Brad Van Dam: It's a great, great question. So the two ways I would recommend getting involved in SPRI, first, if you're an accessory manufacturer, membrane manufacturer, you're interested in potentially joining SPRI, I would definitely reach out to the SPRI website. You can jump on Info at spri.org. And spri.org is the website that you can access. So if you've ever thought about trying to make a difference relative to codes, if you're a manufacturer, a consultant that's interested in participating, we have a number of consultants that participate in SPRI and are invaluable to us for feedback on that portion, I would absolutely recommend that. There's also ways if you aren't able to qualify for membership in SPRI, because we do have some restrictions in that you can participate through accessing any of our technical white papers, you can also go online with DORA, which is the Directory of Roofing Assemblies-

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Which is so great.

Brad Van Dam: It's a great tool to be able to find the listings for a number of our manufacturers or a big portion of them and their listed products and find that all in one place to try to make that easier. DORA was a large investment by SPRI that functionally is there to help the industry. And I think that that's a great way for anyone that maybe is a designer of record, in many cases, as a contractor. It's helping an owner figure out what they want on their roof and puts that together. If you're looking for those listing information pieces in one place, DORA is a great place to go for that.

So those would be two ways overall I'd recommend it. And then in addition, I mean, if you ever are, let's say, not able to do either of those, you're not able to qualify for membership in some form or you're not using DORA as a designer of record, if you're interested in participating on the code commentary and when new codes come out or standards come out, we go through the ANSI process and you can certainly reach out to SPRI and request to be a part of that process to review some of the new standards we come out with, so...

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And I think that's so important because as standards and codes, what I saw, SPRI is right there at the forefront. They're making sure that it's working for contractors, working for the industry, most of all working for the building owners. And so really important to track that, to stay in tune. So you can get all of this information on Roofers Coffee Shop in the SPRI directory, in the DORA directory, in the Metal Holdings directories, including Hickman and Metal-Era, and then also you'll find information about Citadel on the directories also, all the companies. I think this is where as a company and going into 2024 if you were going to put one thing on that list, it's just stay in tune on what these great industry leaders are doing to help make our world better. So how's that?

Brad Van Dam: Too kind.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Too kind. It's the truth. It's the truth. So...

Brad Van Dam: I feel gracious and grateful to be here.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: All right. You too.

Brad Van Dam: So, thank you for having me talk.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Thank you. Thank you for being on our live Roofing Road Trips.

Brad Van Dam: Always. Always. Thank you.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love it. Brad, one of our faves, so if you're here at IRE and you're walking around listening to this, be sure to visit Metal-Era at...

Brad Van Dam: I don't know the booth number.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: In the booth, in the show. Be sure to visit them and be sure to come by the soundstage, because people are going to be here all day long. We'll find you. We'll direct you. Or just check out your app. So...

Brad Van Dam: Sounds good.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Thank you so much, Brad.

Brad Van Dam: Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Thank you as always. Thank you. Thank you for listening to this Roofing Road Trip. Whether you're listening on your favorite podcast channels, be sure to subscribe and set those notifications so you don't miss a single episode of Roofing Road Trips. Or if you're with us right now on YouTube live from IRE, we will be back right away with our live RLW on labor. Stay tuned. We'll be back.

Outro: If you've enjoyed the ride, don't forget to hit that Subscribe button and join us on every roofing adventure. Make sure to visit rooferscoffeeshop.com to learn more. Thanks for tuning in. And we'll catch you on the next Roofing Road Trip.