Alison LaValley, Trent Cotney, Rod Petrick, George Patterson & Anne Schroeder - Best for Business - NRCA’s Premier Legal Conference - PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with the NRCA Legal team of Trent Cotney, George Patterson, Rod Petrick, Alison L. LaValley and Anne Schroeder. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast. 

Speaker 1:

Welcome to Roofing Road Trips. Explore the roofing industry through the eyes of a long term professional within the trade. Listen for insights, interviews, and exciting news in the roofing industry today.

Heidi Ellsworth:

Hello and welcome to another Roofing Road Trips from RoofersCoffeeShop. I'm Heidi Ellsworth. I'm here today to talk to a group who know everything there is to know about what you all need, and that's legal services. I know, it's scary. Legal, lawyers, all of that, a little bit scary. But it is so important for every roofing company out there to have great representation, to know what's going on and to be able to have everything in place to protect their business against all the risk that's out there. We have brought together an amazing panel this morning to talk about what's coming up with the NRCA Legal Conference this fall that will help every company out there prepare for 2023.

I'm very excited to introduce, first of all, Allison LaValley with NRCA. Allison, would you mind introducing yourself?

Allison LaValley:

Oh, good morning everyone, and thanks for having us, Heidi. We appreciate the time and the opportunity to talk about the conference and NRCA Legal Services. As Heidi mentioned, I'm Allison LaValley. I am the vice president of NRCA, and I'm also the executive director of the Roofing Alliance. And I've been fortunate to oversee all of NCRA's legal services since the early 2000's and have an opportunity to work with some wonderful members and council to talk about and offer an array of services. I mean, I know we're here to talk about the conference in particular, which is one of the highlights, but there's a lot of services that can be found on NRCA's website under NRCA legal. I'll just put that little plugin and then we'll get back to the conference and the introduction. Thank you Heidi.

Heidi Ellsworth:

I love it. Thank you Allison. And we're so excited to have Anne Schroeder here. Anne, can you introduce yourself?

Anne Schroeder:

Sure. My name is Ann Schroeder, and I've been with NCRA in the legal section started in the mid nineties and then took a little break from it and then came back with Allison in the 2000's. And really encourage anybody that hasn't been on the website and our legal section to get over there. There's tons of information, ways that you can search for cases and things like that. But one of the highlights of our year has always been our conference and it just brings everybody together. We're really excited to be in person again this year in Austin. We encourage anybody that hasn't been to the conference before and our regulars to get registered.

Heidi Ellsworth:

Wonderful. Thank you for being here today. And this is your first Roofing Road Trip, so welcome. Glad to have you. Trent Cotney, hello. Probably don't need an introduction, but if you could introduce yourself.

Trent Cotney:

Hey, Heidi, it's good to see you again. Always a pleasure being here. I'm Trent Cotney and I am a partner and construction team leader at Adams and Reese and I serve as NRCA's general council.

Just got to tell everybody out here, this is going to be a fantastic event. We've got the best topics that you could ever ask for, but it's also going to be a lot of fun. And if you don't know this already, NRCA is the leading resource for advocacy for roofing, regardless of whether it's safety, health, government regulation, and definitely legal. Stay tuned. This is going to be a great podcast here and definitely encourage everybody to go to the conference.

Heidi Ellsworth:

Excellent. Awesome. And thank you Trent, again for being back. And Rod Petrick, please introduce yourself.

Rod Petrick:

Good morning, Heidi, and good morning everyone. My name is Rod Petrick. I'm currently president of Ridgeworth Roofing Company here in Frankfort, Illinois, just out of Chicago. And I'm the immediate past chairman of the National Roofing Contract Association. I've been busy the last couple years and turned it over to Kyle and now get a chance to take a breath.

Heidi Ellsworth:

I know. You've had a couple of wild years. I mean, the NRCA has overall so much it's done and I mean, been everywhere, even in the midst of COVID. Thank you Rod for being back on the show.

And definitely last but not least, I'd like to introduce George Patterson. And George, you are the legal resource center chairperson. Please introduce yourself and then I'm going to ask you a question about the legal resource.

George Patterson:

I'm George Patterson. Thank you everybody for being on here. I am the president of Bennett and Brosseau Roofing and the legal chair. I've been the legal chair for the last two or three years. Looking forward to everybody getting back together in person because the last two years we've been virtual with the legal conference, and now we finally get to get together again in Austin, Texas.

Heidi Ellsworth:

It's a nice place to go too, Austin. Well, George, before we get into the conference, can you tell us a little bit about the history of the legal resource center and how it continues to help roofing companies in RCA membership?

George Patterson:

Yeah. The legal resource center's been around for over 40 years. We just celebrated, I think our 40th trip. I think it was in New York City when we had that one. As a contractor, the legal resource center is the biggest secret in the NRCA. As a member, you have access to many, many different things on the legal resource site. There are legal documents. There's provisions for contracts. There are things on immigration, all different kinds of things that as a member you can see for free, contract provisions that you can talk to your general contractor.

With what's going on with COVID the last few years and the price escalation and whatnot, Trent and the guys and ladies have given us so many things to put in contracts. It is the best kept secret in the NRCA. I've been touting that for years and I'll scream at the top of my lungs again. Please, please, please visit the website. There are so many nice things on it. And then come visit us in Austin, Texas.

Heidi Ellsworth:

Yeah. I tell you what, when you think about how much money the legal resources have saved roofing companies, it pays for membership. I mean, it's just between contracts and with everything. I mean, how many webinars we had in the last couple years really talking about material shortages, how to work your contracts, risk mitigation?

Rod, I would love for you to talk about that a little bit. As chairman for the last couple years, you've really seen how this helps contractors. Can you share some of that?

Rod Petrick:

Oh yes. When I took over as being chairman, we were only a few months into COVID. And everybody back then, if you remember, were all figuring, "Okay, it's another month or two when we'll be through this and life will go back to normal." And I think we are now, today we're still with what has become the new normal.

But back when this first started, and I know my company, I sat back, "What are we going to do here?" We basically shut down for one week. Talked to our attorneys, talked to our safety consultants, how do we go to work? A, the most important thing is keeping our men safe, but then keeping our clients safe, keeping our men's families safe because when we got deemed essential, it was important that we covered all the bases before we went back out. And then we were successful to go back out, get to work and keep our guys safe.

And Trent and his team, along with everybody at NRCA really came together because there were different rules across different pieces of the country. There were sections out in California, and if I'm not mistaken, Michigan, where even though roofing was deemed essential, these people could not go to work. And it was a tough situation. We were trying to get contractors all the information that we could, and we were all new to this. There's not anybody here that had gone through the previous pandemic in the early 1900's, and they didn't leave us any road of how to get through this. It was flying by the seat of our pants.

But Trent and his team, I think it seemed like to me, it was almost daily coming out with information and it got to the contractors. And I was personally getting calls, and NRCA was getting a lot of calls. "How do we work through this?" And basically directed them to look at the legal side because there were updates getting put in there as fast as they would come up. As we were working through COVID, then when you get the new challenge of supply chain material ...

The new challenge of supply chain, material shortage and cost installation, which I think really the industry really got up in arms about. We've done the town hall calls, which were very interesting. I participated in one with Trent sitting across from me telling me what I could and couldn't say because now you're dodging the antitrust situation. But again, the legal side of NRCA was, I think, inundated with calls of for contractors, what can we do to protect ourself, protect pricing? Basically how do we succeed? And I'm concerned that the contractors that don't pay attention to what was put out there, we could lose some people because they're taking work, they didn't have escalation clauses or did not know how to prepare or handle what we've been seeing for now it seems like as long as COVID, but for about at least the last 12 to 18 months with the pricing increases that we've all been seeing.

But again, there was one place to turn if you went to the NRCA legal and read the different things that Trump was putting out, they were all posted as again as fast as they came in. We were able to get that information out and it was easy access for our members. And I know contractors here in Chicago, they did believe that this was basically a worldwide issue. And how long is it going to last? I said, Become an NRCA member and you'll be in the pipeline to get the information. And it's extremely important to pay attention. And I mean, I go back to I'm a member when you had a pay to be a member of the legal side and it was important then, it's more important today.

Heidi Ellsworth:

We really have seen that. I mean really have seen it over the last couple of years. It's always been important, but boy, it's really come together. So I would love Allison maybe talk a little bit about the history of the legal conference and really how you see it kind of last two years virtual, now we're going to be in person and how important it is to kind of bring all this together.

Allison LaValley:

Thanks Heidi. And thank you Rod. You made a lot of great points. The legal conference, well, the dates, if I can just put them out there. It's October 27th to the 29th. And as George said, we were virtual the last two years and we reached a lot of people and it's great. But a big part of that conference is being able to talk to each other and ask questions, not that you can't ask questions via Zoom of course, but to get that feedback and talk to the people at your table and during the breaks. And then there's a perception to talk to people and just really to have that interaction, whether we have a dinner or open afternoon and so forth. And we purposely do it over the course kind of the three days so that you're not sitting there for eight hours a day.

We start in the afternoon on the first day and then have a reception that night and get together again in the morning and allow people to enjoy the cities. We always pick a nice place. We were actually in Austin about 10 years ago. We're in walking distance to everything. All the restaurants, shops. All the downtown nightlife because we're at the JW Marriott, which is a great property. And so we allow people time to interact and enjoy the city. And the conference has really grown. We offer between always between about 10 and 12 programs. Again, council, we've got members talking on panels because I think it's important to make sure that contractors hear from contractors and their experiences. They're not just being talked to, that there's a conversation. And really, even when council is speaking and when Trent's up there, he's not just speaking to people. He's talking with them, there's a discussion, it's an open opportunity to ask questions. And then you learn from the questions and the response to those. And I think that's so important about being there.

Again, we can effectively educate online, but just to be there and just to have that interaction. And we have Mark Graham speaking, so we have other staff experts speaking in addition to council. And again, we've got a great panel talking about safety issues this year. And again, other legal information you want to know jam packed into three days, but done so in a way that you can digest that. And what we like to say is when you go home, our point is that you can implement, I would say, I don't know, 5 to 10 ideas immediately. You can go back and we've had people from the conference call people in their office and say, hey look, did you think about this? Did you look at this? Have we looked at this contract provision so that it's in our favor and so forth? So again, things you can implement immediately and it's an affordable rate for the three days. And again too, if you're there and need CEUs I don't want that to go unnoticed. If you need CEUs, whether it's for AIA or IBEC, whatever, you can get those through this conference also. And I think that's an important point to mention. So if you need that for your recertification.

Heidi Ellsworth:

Yeah. So Anne, just to take from what Allison said, you've been involved so long, you do so much with it. What is some of the, I mean the camaraderie and the peer to peer education that Allison is talking about, what have you seen in the history of the conference around that?

Anne Schroeder:

Yeah, that's what I was going to mention. The peer to peer is just vital I think. There's been many groups of people that have come together at the conference and still talk throughout the year. There's groups that have come together that have formed groups within themselves to talk about issues. So I think it's really vital and it's valuable when you have that face to face conversation with somebody. Zoom and other platforms are great because you can get information out, but I think it's really important to have that face to face conversations. So, again, I think there's been a lot of good things that have come out of that conference throughout the years. People have also met people in different parts of the country and they might not be dealing with that issue in they're part of the country, but they can talk with them and it's not a competitive thing, it's a friendly thing. So it's a good opportunity.

Heidi Ellsworth:

And down the road if those issues come up, they have someone who they can call.

Anne Schroeder:

Correct. They can talk with somebody from another part of the country and not have to worry about a competition issue or things like that.

Heidi Ellsworth:

So stay together, yeah.

Okay, so we know how successful it's been. We're excited. It was virtual, now it's going to be in person again. This is going to be great. So Trent, what is some of the topics, what is some of the content that contractors can look forward to when they come to the legal conference?

Trent Cotney:

So Heidi, look, I'm glad you asked. We've put together just a top notch from top to bottom conference. We've got so many great topics. The great thing about me is obviously I'm speaking, but I get to listen to people like Steven Phillips and Mark Graham and Phillips Siegel and even Ben Briggs in my office and it gives me a chance to learn as well. So I'm there just like everybody else. I always pick up one or two things that I can utilize. So it's just a great opportunity for everybody to really share and communicate. So I just want to give you some of the highlights cause I think it's worth noting.

We start off on Thursday and I'm going to be, first up George is going to introduce everybody. We're going to talk a little bit about where we are with materials right now. What are the latest issues, the latest contract provisions, where is this thing going, what can we do to continue to navigate it and how long do we anticipate it's going to happen?

And then we transition into what I think is a great seminar. Steven Phillips is going to do one on how long is a roofing contractor liable? I know I get questions all the time. What's the statute of limitations? How long do I have to keep documents? He's going to cover all that. So I think that's definitely something that you want to stay tuned for.

Mark Graham is going to cover the latest technical issues. This is always good because it's interspersed with sort of legal tidbits that you can kind of take back. I consider this more of a risk mitigation seminar. So it really helps identify what the big problems are and you can adjust that from a technical standpoint, which I think is great. Then we top off that first day with a cocktail reception. So-

Great. Then we top off that first day with a cocktail reception. So can't beat that. Next day, we go in and we've got a great update from McKay and Kyle Thomas about what's going on within NRCA, all the latest and greatest from there. And then Ben Briggs is going to talk about the big issues with immigration. He's going to go into everything from I-9 compliance to E-Verify, to HTB, to all the different issues that are there. After that, Steven talks a little bit more about material substitutions, which has been a big issue that we've all faced with the latest material volatility problems. Another technical program with Mark Graham, which I think is going to be great. And then I get into insurance issues.

And this is something honestly, Heidi, I could talk for days about insurance. I'm sure nobody would want to hear days of that, but this is the best of the best. These are the top issues that I think contractors would want to know about insurance. So we're going to touch a little bit on commercial general liability. I'm going to talk about a lot of the latest legislation that's impacted in the insurance restoration and storm market. And we're going to get into some other things like workers' comp and other stuff.

So we've got other great courses, everything from Phillips Sewall talking about in a tough employment issues, a great safety program, negotiating contracts. And then finally, we top it off with Steven's analysis, the latest roof cases. So Heidi, as you can tell, it is a packed three days. We've just got so much great stuff. Couldn't be more excited about this. And the best part of this, Heidi, is that I get to spend it with great people like Allison, and Ann, and George, and Rod. You create these friendships when you go to these things. It's not just about learning, it's about the comradery, it's about networking and the pure group aspect of it. So really encourage everybody to come. Plus Austin is going to be there, right?

Heidi Ellsworth:

That's right. Great music, great time. But I think too, one of the hidden gems of the legal conference too, is the fact that contractors are there with you, and Steven, and Philip, and Ben. And so after, when you are hearing all this in a class or during one this seminars. And then afterwards, you can ask questions because there's a lot that goes on there. So you get that one on one opportunity to actually talk to the speakers, and the experts, and maybe find out how that affects their business, which I think is incredibly valuable.

Trent Cotney:

Yeah, it's huge. And like I said, I learned a lot from this conference as well because it helps put me in touch with what the issues are. It's important to go out and speak, and to travel, and to go to these kinds of events because if you don't, if you just stay at your desk all day, you don't really know what the issues are. And I've always been a big advocate of being proactive rather than reactive. So the best part to me is having that communication, is answering those questions, is being around and understanding what's out there affecting the industry.

Heidi Ellsworth:

Yeah, I think so. I think that's good. So George, you're going to be launching off the conference. That's cool. Introducing everybody. But from your standpoint as a roofing contractor, why should companies attend?

George Patterson:

It's been said many times already, you get so much out of this conference. I am sitting there listening to, whether it's Trent, or Steven, or Mark Graham, and I'm texting back to the office during the seminar saying, "Hey, let's take this and let's do this. Do we have this in place? What do we need to do to make sure that we are doing the right things?" And it is just so important.

The seminar is just jam packed. I wish I had the memory I did when I was in my twenties when I could remember everything that was said. I'm scribbling notes throughout the whole entire thing. I'm looking over at Rod at times saying, "What did they just say? Is this what I'm supposed to do?" We're going back and forth. I've met so many nice people from across the country. I've made friendships that have lasted for years now from this, people that are like-minded, people that have a differing opinion. People that are small companies, some that are big companies. We can just go back and forth and discuss how does this affect you? Oh, and I get different perspectives from certain people on how things affect them compared to me. And then I'm the quiet one in the room all the time. I don't say much. I'll get on and I'll start talking, and we'll get lively conversations about things.

Heidi Ellsworth:

I love that. There's a little bit of interaction going on right now about you being the quiet one, George. So I'm just saying. But that's the thing is those friendships, I've seen it over and over again and how important that is, and to be able to follow up. But you know what, I think one of the things that we, just the elephant in the room, but it's expensive to travel. It's expensive to go and to get out and to do things. So Rod, let's just talk about the ROI of this, and how much we've seen, that it pays for itself. Yeah, it might be a little bit expensive to travel, but this kind of information saves you from a risk mitigation and everything else in your business.

Rod Petrick:

Well it does. And I'm sitting here going, return on investment. Is it tenfold? Well, it's 100 times that tenfold. That's what everybody's said, is we're getting top quality people that I want to listen to. And I'm sure when it's a first time attendee, you're going to sit there wondering, why am I in this business? But if you sit there and you pay attention for the whole time, and you keep coming back, if you pay attention and put these means and methods into your business, there is a reason you're in the business, and there's a way to stay in the business safely and do things correctly.

I remember the first one I attended. I remember Steven Phillips walking up putting his hand on my shoulder, and basically had to give me a hard time saying, "Look at how old Rod is. And this is his first one," and it was probably 20 years ago, so I must be ancient now. I'm walking in a walker. You come in, you listen, and then the discussions. I've been fortunate, I think I've sat in the last five of them with Anne that represents a contractor out of Milwaukee. And her and I do just what George says. We do a lot of discussions between each session of things that we're taking back. And between my notepad and then the book that we get when we get there, it takes months to go back across everything that you've picked up.

And I think Mark Graham said it once and it means everything. If you take at least one thing home, you're better. Well, there's no reason that you shouldn't be taking 10, 12, or 20 things home. You don't have to change the way you do business or do everything, but start putting things into your business to make yourself better, make your company better. To survive in the times that we are on now.

Heidi Ellsworth:

Right. And like Trent said, it's about getting out there, getting in person, building your business. This new COVID, new post COVID, it's a combination of doing all of the above. So Allison, can you bring us all home here? And let's go the dates again, how people can register, what they should be doing right now to get involved with the local conference?

Allison LaValley:

Definitely Heidi. Thank you. Well, I want to talk a bit about pricing too. When Rod said, when you were talking about return on investment, so in addition to everything he said, I want everyone to know that's thinking about coming, that we've tried to be cost conscious for everyone too. So to attend, we've set a price that we think is fair, but what's great is we have group registrations. So if you are bringing somebody, it's $200 less for the second person. So we try to keep that in mind. And the JW Marriott's a great property, but we've got a awesome rate. So we really have tried to look at that to make sure that we're providing very nice accommodations, but at a good rate because we realize that it's an expense for people to come, and it's an investment. That's how I look at it, as an investment.

There's a great breakfast offered every day. There's lunch available the first day, and then you can do what you want in the evenings, and so forth. And we've got a great cocktail reception. So we try to look at all of that.

Another thing, if you're thinking of coming for the very first time, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that if you are...

I would be remiss if I didn't mention that if you are a first time attendee, we connect you with a seasoned attendee. We will connect you with somebody that has been to more than one conference, probably more like four or five, because we have people like George Rod and others that have been to 5, 10, 20 of these in our 40 year history. So ahead of time we will connect you with someone that you can talk by phone if you want, you can connect by email if you want. Or you can simply say, "You know what, when I arrive in Austin, I'm going to come up to registration at about 11 o'clock. Could I meet you there?" Maybe you want to sit by someone, maybe you want to talk to somebody at a break, et cetera. I think that's a really important point, so that, don't think you're going to walk in alone and not have a friend.

You're going to have 15 friends within 15 minutes, I guarantee you. There's a lot of camaraderie and collaborating together, so I don't want anyone to think that they're going to be an outsider because they're a newbie to the conference. So please connect. And you can always connect with me and Anne also, and we'll connect you with even more people if you want that. And the number of connections you're going to have when you walk away is going to be incredible.

First things first, I would encourage you to go to the website. The direct link to the conference is nrca.net/legalconference. Again, nrca.net/legalconference. Registration is open through most of October. We encourage you to book your hotel by September 28th, because our room block with a fantastic rate we have will disappear after that. And a lot of stuff's going on in Austin, so please, by September 28th if you're going to book, book your hotel and then register if you need to. But please make sure you get into our room block. And again, if you have questions, George is available, we can connect you with Rod. If you want to talk to Trent, I'm sure many of you out there already know Trent and have his number in your back pocket. You can talk to him at any time too, or his email. But Anne and I can walk you through the conference too, or help you get registered, or answer questions.

Or you want to talk to somebody even sooner than a couple days before the conference or a week before, let us know and we can answer those questions. Again, October 27th to the 29th, it's Thursday to Saturday. We encourage you, if you need to, to come in on Wednesday, our block starts then. If you can get in Thursday morning or are driving, that's great because registration is 11:00 to 1:00, lunch is 11:45 to 12:45, but we're not starting the conference until 1:00. If you want to save a room night Wednesday night, come in Thursday morning and you can get in, drive or fly, please consider that as an option too if you're looking for some cost savings. And then you can definitely get out on Saturday, we're ending by 12:30. If you want to enjoy Austin for the weekend, terrific. But if you need to get out, then you have that opportunity too as well.

Heidi Ellsworth:

Excellent. Everyone should be thinking about getting registered, that is the key. Anne, I'm just going to wrap it up here as we just did, but just any last thoughts because you've been doing this for so long on just having, especially new people coming to this legal conference and what they should be thinking about and doing to get ready for this.

Anne Schroeder:

Yeah. I think going back to the ROI on that, where can you go and talk to an attorney for nothing? For the cost of a conference? Billable hours, things like that. You're going to have four attorneys in a room, so you're going to be able to talk to them and you're going to be able to ask questions and things like that. That's, I think, a huge ROI on that, is being able to talk to attorneys that are involved in the roofing industry and in construction. So being prepared for the conference. Like Allison said, you'll be paired up with somebody. It's going to be a great opportunity, again, to build relationships and talk with people.

We've always tried at the conference to make sure that everybody feels welcome. And we've heard that over the years it's just a great conference to come to. And people that have come for the first time, or when they come back the next year, they're like, "How did I miss this?" Yeah. Again, if you're on the fence about it, come over to the side where you're coming to the conference and it'll be a great opportunity to grow your business and to learn.

Heidi Ellsworth:

I love it. I love it. And protect your business. I'm going to wrap up with you, Trent, just encouraging words. You talk to contractors every single day out there. You know what they're dealing with, with legal. Some last encouraging words for everyone to attend.

Trent Cotney:

Yeah. The unique thing about this conference is, yes, it is educational. Yes, you get a ton of great resources and access to legal and other talent that you can talk to. But the key thing is, it is presented in a way where it's fun. It's a fun event to go to. And that's the thing I want to hit home, is you get to spend time with great people that are just like you. And you get to go to great things like the reception, or go out to dinner with other people that you've just met. It is a perfect venue for learning. I can't stress how important I think it is that people really give it a try. Because if you haven't attend it before, there's nothing like it out there. And really, like I said at the start, NRCA is the leading advocate for the industry, period. This is the pinnacle of what you can get in the roofing industry. There's no better place to do and it's money well spent. Come on out, I'll take you out dinner myself.

Heidi Ellsworth:

There you go. You heard it. Well, thank you all. Thank you for sharing not just what's coming up with the conference, but just the rich history and how important it is for every roofing company out there. I appreciate you all. Thank you so much for being on this Roofing Road Trip.

Trent Cotney:

Thank you.

Anne Schroeder:

Thank you.

Heidi Ellsworth:

And I want to thank all of you for listening. This is the kind of information we're trying to bring you on every Roofing Road Trip, things that will help you grow your business and protect your business and employees, which is so important. So be sure not to miss a single podcast. Although, I do want to remind everybody that you can find also information along with Allison, going straight to get to the conference at nrca.net/legalconference. You can also find all that information on the NRCA directory and the NRCA legal directory on Roofer's Coffee Shop. So be sure to go check all that out and see what other people have been saying. Be sure to check all of our podcasts, or listen to all of our podcasts under the Read, Listen, Watch navigation on rooferscoffeeshop.com, or on your favorite podcast channel. Be sure to subscribe and get those notifications so you don't miss a single episode. And we will be seeing you on the next Roofing Road Trip.

Speaker 1:

Make sure to subscribe to our channel and leave a review. Thanks for listening. This has been Roofing Road Trips with Heidi, from the rooferscoffeeshop.com.