Why standing seam (traditional) is the best roofing ever

First off, man Kurtis!!! You are on fire!!!

John, i think he is actually very humble. Kurtis has found a historic renovation market that is on the rise. The first step to this kind of growth is being humble enough to face that there is a better way. Then it takes lots of education, work and sacrifice to make it happen.

Funny how we catch all the crap though. The entire roofing industry is not just in the dark and unaware but actually mounts a fight when they come across real roofing. I see it like this... Production roofing makes all the money. We all respect that. Infact i wish so bad i could make the money yall make. But theres still a place for proper roofing.

How are we a problem to yall? I have literally never seen a craftsman pushing lies on consumers on production homes, selling them away from production roofers. Yall get 99.9% of the market, probably more. But my biggest problem is production roofers infiltrating the fine home market with cheap temporary products that are dishonest.

I think its embarrassing that production roofers for the most part dont respect or even show interest in traditional permanent roofing. I think it exposes them. Business is about numbers and based on that, yall are by far in the lead. People like kurtis and myself dont look at this as a numbers game. We love roofing, its our life. Kurtis came down here and he was up all night reading, sketching and making patterns. Then he was up first thing getting prepared. All day long he was in the zone and just exuded this energy that he loved what he did. On the weekends he was experimenting and doing the same as above.

We dont have any industry support whatsoever. No products that advertise for us, none we can get "certified" with so we are the only choice, no multi million dollar advertising campaigns inserting preconceived notions in peoples heads, no bandwagons we can jump on, etc. We are on our own out here with everything stacked up against us.

We have chosen the narrow path in roofing and pride is what we are left with rather than profit. Not complaining, just pointing out that we deserve respect.

I made more money than i could count in production roofing. Ill never forget the day someone put a piece of slate in my hands. It changed my life forever. Unfortunately since then, i have nothing in common with roofers. I wish so bad we had some sort of fellowship. I come here to share. When i was yall i always had an interest in traditional roofing.

Kurtis is eager to teach his trade. So am i. He goes above and beyond giving his valuable time and hard earned wisdom to anyone curious. I will do the same.

I agree that there is a place for production roofing just as there is a place for traditional roofing. I am friends with local contractors. I pass them the production work and they pass me the ones they are not qualified for. Thats a big step and knowing the difference takes wisdom and humility. I believe we can coexist if the respect is there.

Here's the thing with that CLVR: seamed work can be just as fast as any other copperwork. Of course you have to have a crew that is highly educated and trained in the methods but once you have that: it is in fact faster than soldered work. There are preservation jobs every day specing permanent roofing with the budget to cover this kind of work. Problem is architects, property managers, and boards that make the decisions on these projects do not know where to go for standards. They usually rely on smnca or copper.org standards: which are incomplete and mostly useless when it comes to traditional standing seam.

The problem is growing roofers that are steeped in: geometry, pattern drafting, classical architecture training, and of course the time behind a hammer and anvil to get experience. They school for 7 years for journeyman everywhere else. I think it's laughable that the greatest country in the world can't keep up. We need trades education so bad in this country too. If every young person blindly goes to college only to end up working at kinkos because they were sold a bag of goods that a degree would get them somewhere.

The money, and the building stock in need of permanent roofing is out there: we just have to elevate the standards and the training

That's something to be proud of be sure. I'd love to be able to do that, but finding the customer base around here to pay for it would be difficult.

That said: the post isn't even about me... Or the work: this is more to showcase what is possible. This is not special or custom, they do this work every day like this in other parts of the world. After fighting this road to get here and running into walls with people in the industry who say they can do it but can't, I have to say yeah I am damn proud to be advancing the discussion and hopefully inspiring people to think different about the way they cut their metal roofs.

It is the best roofing for those reasons I stated. After learning and going through the whole process of creating something like this it makes you feel a type of way. Knowing that I can see everything : any crack, any defect is on the surface or right behind a 180 degree turn. Not tooting my horn I'm just getting started in this field: I'm just excited to pull it off and honored to have a great client that regicnizes the value in it as well.

John, You are right, I have done the industry standard 10' flat sheet built-ins in the past. When I started doing cornices this was the best approach I could find based on the research and existing precedents. I got into the trades because I hired a copper guy to do built-ins on a cornice on my own house that I restored over a summer. I will never forget watching him hack in my gutter corners in the field.

I knew from my research on the cornice work; (I read William Nuerbaker's book and practiced a few patterns before ever even working on the carpentry) That proper sheet metal work is drafted in the flat and plotted/patterened before cutting. When I asked him why he didn't draft out the corners first and seam them: he looked at me like I was nuts and said there was no way to do it. I also knew coming from a family of tin-knockers and sheet metal fabricators 3 generations deep that there was a rich tradition of careful study and development of patterns and templates for everything. Never mind the evidence of the seamed standing seam roof I took out and deconstructed to figure out how they got the seam to run up the wall...

I let the guy finish the gutters but passed on the standing seam roof, because he suggested cutting the seam ends at the wall and laying them down for a good sweat, then putting a big counter cap on it.

My search continued. My ancestors were dead and gone so I had nobody to ask.

I started doing slate roofing, decorative sheet metal work: vessels and finials, and yes, soldered gutters, with single lock seams using all of the research and guidance I was able to gain up to that point.

In my preservation career, that was all I did, slate roofs with simple folk-flashing details (tinner's wings) and notches / gore pieces soldered in at the top of crickets / etc. Isolated pieces.

I have never soldered details on a standing seam roof.

In fact, the first 7 years of my preservation career: I was asked many times to do standing seam roofs and I told them all the same thing: I only know how to make a straight seam: if you have a straight gable let's do it, otherwise avoid it unless you can find someone who knows how to pattern and fold all the details.

I passed on the jobs and watch them hire people who would hack in "essence of standing seam" and pin good copper together on the details. People gave their lungs and backs to mine that stuff. I don't like to see it wasted. Put rubber on if you are not going to respect the culture and heritage and do it right.

The only standing seam roofs Patina (my old company based in KY) did were due to a very special employee who now works for a very elite group in Hunstville, AL. He was the only person I met up to that point who actually had experience with the proper training to perform standing seam respecting the tradition, culture and heritage. All corners penetrated, everything double locked, no excuses. It was then, and only then we performed some really nice octagonal standing seams on a few slate projects.

With soldered built-ins, we tried to do our absolute best, following what we know about chemistry, metalurgy, and precedents put out by other tradespeople. Again I go to the old books first, then look for precedents in the built world to prove the old knowledge is actually holding up.

I see very few examples of 10' soldered work that is older than 1980. This is just based on the inspections I have conducted. Mostly 10-15 year old assemblies that are either ripped up at the bullnose drip like a sardine can, or busting open at the seams.

I think there is a place for cheap roofing: asphalt 3-tab, 5v, all that stuff has it's place. It's not like we should have only top-notch and nothing else. But if you are doing sanding seam: for preservation purposes, to match an american tin/terne look: it shouldn't be soldered unless it actually IS tin/terne. There is precedent for that: if you have terne: solder the heck out of it.. paint it, back prime, and there ya go..

I am on a mission.. Similar to joe's book, we will have standards and have this information codified so the general public and architects will know what to look for with a properly made standing seam.

everywhere else in the world, where the codes are enforced on this at the time of construction: they don't allow it. You would lose your license or guild standing.

We get away with it here because there's no recourse in 30, 40, 50 years.. the work should last longer than that though. and we owe it to the miners to respect the material, and honor the traditions and precedents if we are going to render it into roofing.

Kurtis, Heck of a job, but remember that at one time you didn't do it like that either. Not all of us want to take that much time to hit those details and though I know you well enough to know that you are not bragging, It is almost coming across like you are about to dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back.