They are hiring roofers

My Dad and I felted & nailed out a 20sq roof for a friend. We charged somewhere around $40-50 per square. He paid cash. We split it and for a brief moment considered firing everybody and cancelling our work comp and advertising. Then realized he is 60 and won't want to do that every day!

There are some good points in this thread.

Working on a crew, you can make some money to help someone with the bills.

Sub-contracting residential work, you can make a living.

Owning a successful roofing business, you can make a profit!

Stop and think about this for a second guys. The only one really making any money in this deal is the owner that is paying the "subs" to do the work. They are selling the whole thing for about $250 a square. the salesman gets 10% the roofer gets 20% and they have about 38 % in materials. They are pulling in about $80.00 per square for doing nothing.

AMEN Twill

There are no employees. You can not do the job in 1 day, but there are a lot of places to sub that you do not have to finish the job in 1 day. They are not trying to build a buisness. They are just 2 guys that are going to live a real good life making real good money.

2 guys that are partners. They finish the job split the money. The only expense is liability insurance. Some gas. An accountant once a year. Some other little expenses. Phone and Truck are also your personel phone and truck.

The inital cost of tools. My personal tools last forever. Tools and trucks do not last as long with employees. But you do not have employees.

Theez cumpani iz de best Homz! My hole family works for dem Man! HAHAHA That's Cheap! We got $40 off $40.on in 2004 subbing! Still barely made it doing it legit!

Agree with Lefty completely. When it was just me and two other guys, I had all the tools, the truck, etc... I sold some work, and my dad subbed a good bit of work to me. Our deal was this: His jobs I had to buy all material from him at 100% mark-up.

I made extremely good money doing that. I worked hard, I worked fast, I planned ahead well, and I never had people standing around wondering what to do next.

He sold work for $100-110/square, and my material costs were over $60/sq. I could make 60-80K/yr working 8 months. I did it for three years in a row. Life was good. If it hadn't been for my failure to grasp the "rainy day fund" concept, I might still be doing it just that way.

The truth is, I haven't run across too many people that wanted to, were willing to, or even capable of working that hard on a daily basis. The fact they can, are or do don't make them bad.

Being a sub don't make you bad. Being a paper contractor don't make you bad. It's not a business model I want for my own company, but I've seen total crap come from owner/operators just as often as I've seen it from sub companies. Quality comes down to personal choices and love of money. The choice to cut corners for the sake of a dollar exists in every model, it's just easier to make a boat load of dollars quickly using the sub model.

In the last 15 years the residential roofing trade for legal American Citizens ( skilled tradesmen ) has been ruined by cheap, illegal Mexican Labor.

I used to brag that I could go to any city in the United States, get a job roofing the next day and get paid within a few days at the latest and probably at the end of the first day. All that was true at the time but today I would be hard pressed to find any work at all.

In 1996, I went to Louisville, Kentucky because I heard they were paying $40 per sq. for subs. ( It was just $30 sq. where I was living ) I started out at that rate, moved on to another company for $50 sq. and then another for $60 sq. 1-layer walkers.

Today in my area, nearly 20 years later, the going rate is the same $40 sq. that was the lowest pay way back in 1996.

What's funny-really pitiful- is that the CONtractors claim that "every job supervised" or "our supervisors have 20 years experience".

Ha! They don't stick around long enough to figure out how crappy their work turns out 5, 6 yrs down the line. Insurance just comes in and pays for a new roof.

Seems few know what a quality roof is suppose to look like.

These type of roofing applicators are about the only ones left in North Texas. Whatever it takes to finish a job in one day- 6 guys, 8 guys, or 10 guys- sun up to sun set even in 105 degree weather. I even saw a crew up on a 2 story 12 pitch on a 30 degree day finish in one day.

But it is sickening to see what they cover up. Totally day labor type quality work and they could care less.

One Jefe who is the only guy that speaks English and he pulls the dump trailor and rounds up the slaves-er-workers. He makes the most money out of the labor money. No workers comp in Texas, so that saves half the money. And no need to pay taxes because they are travelers and can't be caught.

"pseudo-subs" is indeed the correct term.

According to this ad - one could reasonably argue these are employees. The deception is clear. I can't understand why there hasn't been a do-gooder attorney come along and bust this crap wide-open. Just too big I suppose. Kinda like Mary Jane is fed. illegal, but OK per state(s). Fed simply ignores. That's what's happening with fed employment laws.

As for the "pay"; DL = $25/sq, ad labor burden(WC.FICA, etc.)=$38 - $50, (depending on what state your in, reasonable ovhd & profit; A "fair" "pay" to a sub would be more like $80/sq, to install comp on 3-6:12...$80/sq for tear-off

My name is Jay. Hi Chuck. A little history.........my Dad worked from New York to California. I learned a lot of different styles from him in BUR and Shingles. Work was seven days a week for as long as the sun stayed up. He taught me some great work ethics, I have to remember not to be so f****** nice and giving. Life and bad decisions threw me a curve for the last 4 years but I'm back and lovin the work again. Gotta love the pain because its part of the job and the rewards are endless.

OS - That's right on the money.....I remember working for a roofing co. in San Diego, circa early 1980's - Installing comp on 12/12 for $20/sq. 4/12 was $8/sq. 5-6 sq/day on the 12/12 & 12-16 sqs/day on the 4/12.

You are missing my point. I am not saying you can run a crew with all the headaches and the selling and the paperwork...

I see it all the time. 2 guys work together and split the money. They make good livings at those prices. I started subbing until I built a reputation. I made good money at low prices.

I figured 200 working days a year. With everything you are listing he would still make $100,000 a year.

I know that is under perfect working conditions and that would not happen. The point is that 2 guys could go in a partnership at them prices and make a very good living.