How has roofing changed for your area of expertise over the years?

Another change has been ventilation. Used to be, everyone just slapped up a couple of turbines. Now, seems like everyone is using ridge vents (with or without cutting the slit in the deck). Problem is no one is cutting in any soffit vents to make them work.

[quote/ in the roofing industry after a 40 year hiatus your skills and knowledge will need very little upgrading to catch up.

[/quote]That's funny because after 43 years of observing the residential roofing trade around me, it doesn't take any skill or knowledge to slap on a roof. I am convinced that 90% of residential roofers are incompetent.

If you were in the computer industry circa 1975 and took a 40 year hiatus your skills would be obsolete now and you won't even recognize the industry. in the roofing industry after a 40 year hiatus your skills and knowledge will need very little upgrading to catch up.

I have the opposite problem around here Mike with the self adhering membranes. Upon first arriving at a job, I have to remember to either park in a place that's shaded and is going to stay shaded for a few hours or take the rolls out and put them somewhere like that. If I forget, the rolls will be so hot that the plastic backing will hardly come off and they will be hell to install. I have to carry up only ONE at a time to prevent it unless there's a shady spot on the roof somewhere. :blink:

Roofguy - "Well there ya go. I was going to explain it but it appears you eventually got it. :-)"

I still don't "get it"......There's a lot more going on there than "surface area", if you're referring/comparing nails to staples that is.

Egg, Yes the Malarky Legacy shingles. They lay FLAT, are strong and yet they cut easily. Good stuff.

Egg: said .........Miss the pungent smell of cedar that I used to work with all the time.

After a full day on the roof the smell would get in your clothes and hair. The only time I would ever come home from work and my wife would say I smelled good. Cedar was very abrasive on clothes as you could wear out your butt cheek after a few days.

John, the Legacy?

I have to say the biggest change overall has been caused by the internet. I started using a computer for files, etc. in 1985 but the good access to the net and expanded resources that got linked to it revolutionized the availability of specifications, etc. Time was everyone staying on top of things had a huge row of binders in the office, constantly needing updating, and then two or three decades later, everything is just at your fingertips. I still have the binders, but I very rarely open them up anymore.

Youtube videos of equipment and installation, government ES reports, forums like this, you're never far from what you need to know to document and improve. I still have a fax machine, but email...talk about fast and flexible.

Pushing fasteners in with air is a big difference. Better fasteners of all kinds is a difference. Better equipment, lighter weight equipment, cordless equipment...all good. Better gas mileage, better safety awareness, all good.

Lower actual industry wages relative to the overall economy, not so good. Miss the kettle, but don't miss the droplet of sweat that pops on fresh hot and makes it fly up and sting you. Well actually I really do miss even that.

Miss the pungent smell of cedar that I used to work with all the time. Very seldom now.

Interesting. we hand nailed until I was about 20, and then we went to staples. I still use them. Hand nails are good, but so are staples and coil nails if they are applied correctly. What drives me crazy is when I see the guys nailing 7 or 8 nails into every shingle. When you ask them why so many, they just look at you stupidly. Unless it is a mansard, 4 is all that is required. I just finished a roof today using the Malarky Modified bit shingles. They are NICE!!I was really impressed. If you haven't tried them yet, do so.

Surface area? Kinda apples to oranges.

I will note that dealing with a synthetic shake manufacture, they found that the wide-crown staple held superior to nails with their particular product. I'll also note; Regardless of the manufactures findings/recommendations, a lot of roofers insist on using coil nails.

Back to comp. The bottom-line is practical experience - What actually happens.

Staples can be improperly placed as can nails - Both function/perform as intended if installed properly.

In my practical experiences, I've very rarely, (almost never), come across a properly air-nailed application, whereas, staples where generally correct, (have witnessed some bad staple applications though). Will note w/hand-nailing, it's hard to foul that up.

IOW's - I would have much more faith trusting the newbie with a staple gun than with a coil-nailer.

So much has changed - don't know where to start - A lot of changes have come about, a large amount depends on demographics & geographic locations.

BUR has just about vanished here in Colorado - There's still a substantial market for it in California. Single plies have won out; BUR is simply too tedious/labor intensive & requires significantly more practical experience/"artsy" capacities of the typical mechanic, as opposed to the more simplistic, "cleaner" single-ply applications.

The labor pool - which was a help in accentuating the above, has become a complete different animal over the past three decades. No need to expand - We all know what we must deal with these days.

Solar energy - I've stepped-aside over the last couple decades - Not sure we're any better off really. There's been a lot of hoopla correlating with the past 8yr stint admn. But really?

Just noticed an article that d Tesla LOST $850mil last year - Had revenues of $750mil....How the heck do you take in $750mil, then spend $1.6 trillion? Law-suites? Huge debacles? On an added note; Tesla will sell you a 30sq solar shingle roof for $65,000. How is that reasonable?

And yes - Absolutely nothing wrong with stapling comp shingles, although the sheeples will argue to the end how stapling is deficient compared to nailing.

HAND nailing could be arguably better, however, with the overwhelming use of coil nailers, shingles are typically grossly miss-nailed. However again; The errors of todays' fastening are masked/somewhat corrected with the advancements in the adhesive strips. IMHO.

Natty, where I grew up most all the roofs we did were one layer tear offs on walkable slopes. It wasn't until I moved to Birmingham, AL 21 years ago that I learned what a true roofer was as many roofs were steep and multiple layers. We did one with 8 layers on it one time and I've done many on the South Side of downtown that were built in the early 1900's where they had 1 x 4 spaced decking with wood shakes on the bottom, a couple layers of big diamond shape shingles over that and then a couple layers of three tabs. We redecked them all. One was 4 stories on a 10/12 slope with 6 layers. :huh:

Natty said "There is some really pitiful roofing going on now. Seems it is all about production and putting money in the middle man's pocket."

Yep! It got so bad ( and cheap ) around here that I just started specializing in repairs since there were so many roofs that needed repair and you have to actually be a roofer to do it efficiently and profitably instead of just a businessman or an "insurance restoration specialist". Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with either of the two but I'm just saying! :dry:

Yeah Tim, I forgot to mention the red tape one, rules and regulations. I feel that I learned from the best, not just my father but all of his partners and coworkers. They were all top notch roofers and I spent years working under their supervision. Possibly that fact alone but maybe something within myself also has always made me dislike ignorant rules and regulations and the folks that dish them out. If they make sense it's one thing but most of the time they don't and that's a whole different thing.

This reminds me of the time I was being considered for a very large contract on a condominium complex and they brought their own "expert" to the board meeting they had called me to. I was referred to them by the owner of a very large realty company that I had done a lot of work for over the years and he was there as well. To make a long story short, the so called "expert" was talking down to me and trying to add a LOT of unnecessary things to the contract thus making life difficult on me and my guys with no extra pay for any of it so I stood up in front of all of them and gave him a piece of my mind.

When I sat back down, the realtor who had referred me spoke up and said "He's a little rough around the edges but he's the best roofer I've ever came across". Later I regretted what I had done figuring I had blown the contract. Until the board chairman called me three days later, gave me the job and said don't worry about the expert we had at the meeting, he won't be around anymore! It was 436 squares if I remember correctly. ;)

I have used Senco staples since they first came out in '74. I have never had any problems. Seems no one ever learned how to use them. The same with coil nailers. It ain't the tool, it is the idiot behind the tool who won't learn anything. I still use staples on plank decks simply because the result is the best. I do use coil nailers on everything else. I have only hand nailed 3 jobs in over 40 years because it was requested. Hated every minute of it. I am just too big to sit on my hip all day. It is much easier for me to bend over. I have a strong back.

I don't think anyone tore a roof off in North Texas until the mid '80s. I use to do 3 and 4 layer tearoffs regularly. The most I ever tore off was 7 layers. Those shingles from the '40s and '50s were really thin. Since insurance pays for near everything now, no more than one layer on a house. And back in the '80s, most of my work was straight layover wood shingles. Easy money and I think I was the only roofer who ever did a good job with that. I nested my shingles, pulled and reflashed the vents and walls, and cut back the rakes. I would not even consider laying over wood shingles now. And I think I am the only roofer around here that knows how to redeck a house. There is some really pitiful roofing going on now. Seems it is all about production and putting money in the middle man's pocket.