Do you pay your employees enough?

Based on the % you guys are using, it would almost be impossible to pay someone at that level unless there was a level playing field. With guys cutting prices to the bone there is no room for higher pay. You cant compare roofing to say a big factory, If a guy slacks off there the machine still runs spitting out the product at basically the same production. Now if you employee slacks off you lose squares installed/less money made that day and thus lose money because your still paying him. Our machines are our employees and they brake down almost everyday. I always paid the good ones well, and the slackers who showed no sign of improvement stayed were they were pay wise. My motto was you make me money I'll make you money. I can't give what you don't make. I can make $1000.00 a day clear by my self. I have yet to have an employee even come close to that. If they would ,I'd pay them.>>>

I give them TWO Seperate raises! The first one is daily! Off their arse and on their feet. Then theirs the occasional two story job! lol>>>

Refer to Tom's message, to wit: "That's another subject your talking about..... ">>>

I speak to this subject from both angles . I am an employee of a huge industry. I am compensated very handsomely from this industry . Way beyond what I could have afforded as a small business owner . I had visions when I became successful as a roofing contractor. Paying employees a wage that would elevate them to a level capable of producing happy employees. Some of the major problems with that were inherent in the employee themselves . The trades don't always draw the type of employee that will make lifelong good successful lifestyles. An average roofer is not educated . The skill level in roofing is way beyond normal homeowners and educated people . How ever this doesn't translate into a decent wage. The lifestyles are shaky and teetering on destruction the edge . If that changes the roofing industry will draw more money and respect . IMO . I know there are good and educated people on this forum and a few others . The average is not here .>>>

Tom: "+20%...... + 500%.... + 330%....Food, clothes fuel, taxes, etc..... " I have been noticing a LOT more formalized Etc. in the last few years. I'm considering rearranging the list to Insurance, Taxes, Fuel, Food, Etc., Clothes, & sundry. Many items that used to warrant their own entry on the serious named list have now been forced into sundry. People have said we spend way too much on computers these days, but even using a conservative version of your ratios, I have to say I paid much more for a medium-grade typewriter in 1966 than I did for my most recent computer. Candy bars have maintained a ratio closer to one to one but then you look at the size and the ingredients. I'm not disputing your point at all by this, but I'm going to have to add that the ratio of quality goods and services to total population has been drastically reduced imo and supply and demand is only too happy to comply with higher prices for real stuff, even though there is more and more cheap junk to be had for all.>>>

pgriz & copper; That's another subject your talking about.....

Vaa gets it, (my point), as does Randy.....

What your describing is just plain-old ill-responsiblty and idiocy....It wouldn't make a hoot what those types were paid, they'll always find themselves behind the eight-ball.>>>

I would say , no, reasons being, the material costs have sky-rocketed, and the raise I was going to give , is put aside for now. So, eveyone is still being paid about the same as two years ago. When the economy improves, and we can get the market price for our jobs again, then the raises will come. Remember , not on a level playing field, bidding constantly against low ballers that have no comp, no taxes paid, no unemployment paid. It is tough right now to keep enough work for everyone, so all have to suck it up, including myself. Profits are way down. I do have a question, you mentioned the average "Joe". That wouldn't be that jerk , Joe the plumber, or should I say wannabe plumber. Oh yea, and what about the a=holes that were riding around with government plates on , but were always prepared , and of course supremely trained to handle a disaster, until Katrina hit, then they had no clue., they still got paid though. I screw up a roof, I wouldn't be paid, I would be in jail. What about these genuis little jerks with suit and tie that "work" on Wall street, that always seem to find a way to steal your life savings every 8 to 12 years. Did you ever wonder why they never go to jail, only one(Madoff), that they want to put out there to make you and I think they are prosecuting these thieves, when all this is , tip of the iceberg, if that.>>>

Thats what I was trying to say Pgriz. One could do a lot with $200.00 a day if you cut out the crap we buy for connivance. Give you an example of myself, Compare my wage from last year (which was not my best) to date and this year to date with being disabled and unable to work steady. 2008 gross wages $84,756.00 2009 gross wages $18,886.00 Now the funny thing is today I'm debt free except my mortgage

We cut out the dinning out, the new gadgets,travel,stay home and enjoyed our home and property for a change. Stress level today low stress level last year very high. Go figure.>>>

Lessee, now. I, as a basic roofer, make about $20/hr. In a 10-hour day, I should have made $200. Give a little away to the government, and I'm left with maybe $150. So, I like to have a coffee on the way to the job, 'cause it is just sooo early. That's $4.50 at Starbucks, and I tell the barrista to keep the change. I smoke two packs a day. That's $20 bucks. I buy my lunch. That's another $10. At the end of the day, I like to relax a little with the guys. That's $12 plus maybe $6 tip to that lovely lady that served me. Oh, and I'm feeling a little lucky, so a couple of lottery scratch cards, and that's another $10. Darn, gotta put some gas in the car as I wanna drive and see my honey... Oh, well, I'll put $20 in. Honey doesn't want to cook tonight, so it's another $30. So, I've worked all day and all I have to show for it is $30 measly bucks. I ain't being paid enough!!!

The "I" in the previous scenario is imaginary. However, it's not what you make, but what you end up with that counts. And lifestyle determines whether you keep or give away most of what you make.>>>

It's amazing at the amount of people that just don't get it.....

1983; $ 15/hr.....House $ 50K....Truck $ 6K 2009; $ 18/hr.....House $ 250K....Truck $ 20K +20%...... + 500%.... + 330%....Food, clothes fuel, taxes, etc.....

How is that indifferent? I realize "Perception = Reality"...But come on now.....

I'm surprised at the little amount of discution on this topic.....Or is it pretty-much a "given" to most?>>>

Eco,

$30/sg for 4/12?....Holy poop!......That's actually a fair wage for these times...works out to $48-$60/hr. for the avg. shingler(s).....I sure would like to be able to pay my guys that!>>>

What one makes has little bearing on what they can buy with it. You could make $100,000.00 a year and still not be able to buy a home and a car. I've seen people that never made more then $8.00 there whole life and own a home and when they died had $800,000.00 in the bank. What I'm trying to say is most young guys today want NOW what there parents have and worked for There entire lifetime to get. If people would buy what is in there budget instead of over buying and living above there means they can get what they want in due time.>>>

Truth be told when the powers that be collect a near equal amount as what a guy gets paid who would want to swing a shovel for minimum wage with possibility to advance into a position as a roofer that is still making the same wages as a guy did 10 years ago...but really it is all perception. Take pride in doing a good job at what most people refuse to do and you are set in the right direction to make money. I love what others hate and because of that I always have work...funny story is going from Seattle piece rates of roughly $30.00 per sq. on 4/12 install to Olympia where the average high paid foreman gets $15-$20 per hour and is expected to produce the same, when I was the roofer piece worked rocked now I own this beast and if I paid sq. work in Oly I would be ran out of business in the land of the 4/12 rambler prices are odd.>>>

TomB.....AMEN!! Then throw in all the state, county and local employees and teachers, firemen and policemen......I bet 60-70% of the population mooches a payday from the tax payers!!

Makes one wonder where all the money comes from....well, I guess it is just printed :woohoo:

Believe in your country, have trust and faith.....the Indians did :dry:>>>

Do I pay my employees enough?...I pay them as much as I can and stay afloat.....A more appropriate question might be..."Do your employees make enough?"....

The answer is; Of course not; Just consider this: I'll go back to 1983. Let's compare; I was paying a journeyman roofer $ 15.00.hr.,($ 31,200/yr.) (I'm using the same town/demoghrapjhics mind you) Salary Typ.new 1st home New pickup 1983....$ 31,200....$ 50,000...........$ 6,000 2009.... 37,440.... 250,000........... 20,000

Not to mention the resultant higher costs of just about everthing...The working man in this country hasn't got a chance....

In 1983, I had employees buying homes, new cars, supporting families....Can't happen today. What happened? Illegal immigrants, liberlism & a worthless gov't....That's what happened.....

The scale has tipped the other way.....Our community was adjacent to a large military base. There wasn't much desire to take a civil service job, as one could do much better in the open/competitive market.....Now the opposite is true....There's guys knocking down $ 100K a year sitt'n on their arses, working, (taking up space), for the gov't, while the really productive people are eeking out a miserable existance on the same wages they made 25 years ago! And I don't need snoopes to confirm it...I've lived it!>>>