Do you pay your employees enough?

In 1977 I was a front end loader operator at $5.75 an hour. Minimum wage was $3.50 an hour. Bought a house for $27,500 with a 10%downpayment of $2750.00.

The downpayment cost me about 478 hours of labour at $5.75 an hour or about 772 hours at minimum wage of $3.50 an hour.

In 2009 the same house costs about $315,000 with a downpayment of $31,500.

If the $31,500 downpayment costs 478 hours of labour for a machine operator in 2009 he should be making $65.90 an hour and 772 hours at minimum wage should be $40.80 an hour.

Minumum wage is now $8.00 an hour and a front end loader operator would be lucky to make $25.00 an hour (actual rate around $21.76 an hour)>>>

PC; I agree...moslty...we're just spouting two different topics in one here.....There were the same idiots back then as there are now......I was sticking with the wages compared to expenses these days, as compared to years past.....It's true; If your savvy and make wise decisions you'll make out....If your wastefull and stupid, you won't ever get ahead, no matter how much you made....However, TODAY, the cards are most definitely stacked against the "worker-bee"....>>>

Mike; What you say is all well and good...I was attempting to directly reply to Roof Doc's question.... The bottom line is that roofers,(construction craftsmen in general), have slid waaaayyyy down the income/"good-life" scale in the last 20+ years....

My very first roofing position was on a tear-off crew in 1977, after leaving the local "big company job".....I started at $ 8/hr...In less than a years time I had graduated to kettleman, on to 2nd man and $ 11/hr, (which was pretty-much top pay in those days).....Taking all things in perspective, (ie, housing, vehicles...general cost of living), by my calculations, in order to maintain the same lifestyle, that same roofer ought to be making somewhere in the vicinity of $ 50/hr. today.....

To back that up, I have personal friends that decided to go the civil service route and do make $100k+/year, ($ 50/hr.). In 77'-78'; When I was making $11/hr, my buddies where making 1/2-3/4 that at their civil service jobs....It's all topsey/turvey from yester-year....>>>

Yeah Mike. Mostly about the theft of our money by the powers that be in the government! When a 2009 "dollar" is worth about 4 cents compared to a 1967 dollar, someone should be brought to justice for the theft of the other 96 cents. That makes Madoff look like a candy theif!>>>

In 1983 a roofer around here made 8-10/hour with no benefits of any kind.

Today they have health insurance, 401K, bonus, other perks, and make 15-25/hour

Back then a car had few amenities, today even the most basic car has amenities than a lot of homes didn't have 30 yrs ago.

Homes today are equiped with everything, fine furnishings, extravagent electronics, 70/month cable bills etc.

back then, most families at at home, today few do.

government has continued to take a larger chunk of our pay, not only through payroll taxes, but taxes on many of of the things we use and do every day.

I contend that it is not the workplace that is the problem, but a government drunk on power and money, coupled with a populace that lives higher than they are willing to work for, in many cases.>>>

Based on the % you guys are using, it would almost be impossible to pay someone at that level unless there was a level playing field. With guys cutting prices to the bone there is no room for higher pay. You cant compare roofing to say a big factory, If a guy slacks off there the machine still runs spitting out the product at basically the same production. Now if you employee slacks off you lose squares installed/less money made that day and thus lose money because your still paying him. Our machines are our employees and they brake down almost everyday. I always paid the good ones well, and the slackers who showed no sign of improvement stayed were they were pay wise. My motto was you make me money I'll make you money. I can't give what you don't make. I can make $1000.00 a day clear by my self. I have yet to have an employee even come close to that. If they would ,I'd pay them.>>>

I give them TWO Seperate raises! The first one is daily! Off their arse and on their feet. Then theirs the occasional two story job! lol>>>

Refer to Tom's message, to wit: "That's another subject your talking about..... ">>>

I speak to this subject from both angles . I am an employee of a huge industry. I am compensated very handsomely from this industry . Way beyond what I could have afforded as a small business owner . I had visions when I became successful as a roofing contractor. Paying employees a wage that would elevate them to a level capable of producing happy employees. Some of the major problems with that were inherent in the employee themselves . The trades don't always draw the type of employee that will make lifelong good successful lifestyles. An average roofer is not educated . The skill level in roofing is way beyond normal homeowners and educated people . How ever this doesn't translate into a decent wage. The lifestyles are shaky and teetering on destruction the edge . If that changes the roofing industry will draw more money and respect . IMO . I know there are good and educated people on this forum and a few others . The average is not here .>>>

Tom: "+20%...... + 500%.... + 330%....Food, clothes fuel, taxes, etc..... " I have been noticing a LOT more formalized Etc. in the last few years. I'm considering rearranging the list to Insurance, Taxes, Fuel, Food, Etc., Clothes, & sundry. Many items that used to warrant their own entry on the serious named list have now been forced into sundry. People have said we spend way too much on computers these days, but even using a conservative version of your ratios, I have to say I paid much more for a medium-grade typewriter in 1966 than I did for my most recent computer. Candy bars have maintained a ratio closer to one to one but then you look at the size and the ingredients. I'm not disputing your point at all by this, but I'm going to have to add that the ratio of quality goods and services to total population has been drastically reduced imo and supply and demand is only too happy to comply with higher prices for real stuff, even though there is more and more cheap junk to be had for all.>>>

pgriz & copper; That's another subject your talking about.....

Vaa gets it, (my point), as does Randy.....

What your describing is just plain-old ill-responsiblty and idiocy....It wouldn't make a hoot what those types were paid, they'll always find themselves behind the eight-ball.>>>

I would say , no, reasons being, the material costs have sky-rocketed, and the raise I was going to give , is put aside for now. So, eveyone is still being paid about the same as two years ago. When the economy improves, and we can get the market price for our jobs again, then the raises will come. Remember , not on a level playing field, bidding constantly against low ballers that have no comp, no taxes paid, no unemployment paid. It is tough right now to keep enough work for everyone, so all have to suck it up, including myself. Profits are way down. I do have a question, you mentioned the average "Joe". That wouldn't be that jerk , Joe the plumber, or should I say wannabe plumber. Oh yea, and what about the a=holes that were riding around with government plates on , but were always prepared , and of course supremely trained to handle a disaster, until Katrina hit, then they had no clue., they still got paid though. I screw up a roof, I wouldn't be paid, I would be in jail. What about these genuis little jerks with suit and tie that "work" on Wall street, that always seem to find a way to steal your life savings every 8 to 12 years. Did you ever wonder why they never go to jail, only one(Madoff), that they want to put out there to make you and I think they are prosecuting these thieves, when all this is , tip of the iceberg, if that.>>>

Thats what I was trying to say Pgriz. One could do a lot with $200.00 a day if you cut out the crap we buy for connivance. Give you an example of myself, Compare my wage from last year (which was not my best) to date and this year to date with being disabled and unable to work steady. 2008 gross wages $84,756.00 2009 gross wages $18,886.00 Now the funny thing is today I'm debt free except my mortgage

We cut out the dinning out, the new gadgets,travel,stay home and enjoyed our home and property for a change. Stress level today low stress level last year very high. Go figure.>>>

Lessee, now. I, as a basic roofer, make about $20/hr. In a 10-hour day, I should have made $200. Give a little away to the government, and I'm left with maybe $150. So, I like to have a coffee on the way to the job, 'cause it is just sooo early. That's $4.50 at Starbucks, and I tell the barrista to keep the change. I smoke two packs a day. That's $20 bucks. I buy my lunch. That's another $10. At the end of the day, I like to relax a little with the guys. That's $12 plus maybe $6 tip to that lovely lady that served me. Oh, and I'm feeling a little lucky, so a couple of lottery scratch cards, and that's another $10. Darn, gotta put some gas in the car as I wanna drive and see my honey... Oh, well, I'll put $20 in. Honey doesn't want to cook tonight, so it's another $30. So, I've worked all day and all I have to show for it is $30 measly bucks. I ain't being paid enough!!!

The "I" in the previous scenario is imaginary. However, it's not what you make, but what you end up with that counts. And lifestyle determines whether you keep or give away most of what you make.>>>

From Olympia to Tacoma piece work starts out $15 per square for 4/12 roof, larger companies pay a little more up to as much as $20 per sq. In Tacoma, You can command between $17-$25 and hr for an experience lead man or service guy. The worker is responcible to supply his own tools and truck and gas

You live or die depending on how busy or slow it gets.....NO WAY ENOUGH TO BUY A HOME!!!>>>