do you figure the hips and ridge extra on a tile roof

i am doing a tile roof that is a hip roof. the issue is that the owner doesnt think that hips and ridge should be figured as sq. foot of the roof..... whats your take?

If you're quoting an 'average' price per square, if it's truly average, you're safe on the half of all jobs easier or less cut-up than average. It's those jobs with more than average trim that you will need to compensate for.

Depending on the job, site, tile profile, budget, I have 4 different options for hip closure. They range (including trim) from $4 per foot to $8.50 per foot. If someone demanded a job be done at the average price per square, they ain't getting the $8.50 per foot option.

ROBERTS Said: the job is based on a per sq. foot price not an actual bid. now they dont want to pay for the ridge or hips or the waste. they estimated the sq. footage and i have to show that they need to add hips and ridge too. they only want to pay for flat roof area

Then only do the "flat roof area". I'm with TomB, I really don't see the issue here. You get what you pay for comes to mind.

I've got three roofs here. They all measure exactly twenty squares in the field. One is a full hip. One is a gable. One has a clerestory with no ridge. One has a single layer of 30#. One has two layers of 30# 18 inches to the weather. One has a hot-mop under it. One has galvy flashing. One has lead flashing. One has copper flashing. One is a barn with no penetrations. One is a house with about eight jacks. One is a shop with thirty-seven skylights. One is 4/12. One is 8/12. One is 24/12 One is one story on the street. One is two story on a hill. One is three story up a flight of fifteen hundred stone steps a half mile from the road. When you quote by the square, somebody gets burned. Usually you only make that mistake once. If all it costs you is a couple hundred trim tiles you're getting off cheap. The time to talk turkey and communicate is always at hand, but it's most critical place is right at the beginning. Very tough lesson. People have said it's easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission, but what do they know?

Whew.... For a moment I thought that Tom was going to refute the pita formula... :huh: :woohoo:

Forgot to mention: x= number of squares (whether roofing or meals or people is dependent on the context). :P

Like old school said but you will run short with no waste factor.

Put the tile and leave. Let them install the ridges!

What I think is happening is the owner calculated the exact square ft. of roof and that's all he wants to pay for. Robert May have given a price per square over phone.He comes to Job and says Hay wait a minute theirs hip and ridge work that needs to be added and owner says no way.

I don't understand the issue/point here????....Figure the job....Divide by sf or squares....and there you have the "per sq. ft." of per square" price.... Or, are you asking for a method to determine a "waste-factor" for concrete tile? If the owner doesn't want to purchace the correct amount of tile required to complete the project, I suppose you could include an extra charge clause for job delay, etc., to cover the expens involved to purchase and deliver the correct amount.... Like I said, I don't get it.....

Yes, but they don't need to know that. Figure it all seperately, combine the total, add 15%(or so),divide by sqs, and there's the price. Like mentioned before, I might have just grinned, got in my truck and left. I did that yesterday!

Reasonable customers can get pretty close to our numbers. Unreasonable customers find that the unit prices for the parts they do want to pay are quite a bit higher than we otherwise would have made them (something along the lines of JSC). We're actually formalizing this concept in our estimating approach. Namely, cost of job = materials + labour + overhead + profit +(contingency/risk)+(pita factor). The pita formula is (status pretentions)*x + (detail orientation/actual knowledge)^2 + (% of day available for access/(cookies+coffee supplied))^2.5 + distraction-factor(attractiveness/percentage of clothes worn)^3. Local adjustments to the formula made as necessary.

The trim doesn't displace the tile, as far as coverage. Except for the area of the nailer, it's solid tile under the trim. Plus when you figure the cutting loss of the tiles against the hip, it's more square feet, not less.

I can quote prices for what an average amount of hips or valley (another pricey intersection) would be, but usually break them down seperately. Regional styles vary and houses vary, but around here there's about 35' of hip or valley per square on average.

And I suppose the flashband, ridge vent, or whatever weatherblocking you use doesn't count either?

Factor the extra work into your psf price and give them a number, if you still want to work for such aholes.

They would have already seen my tail lights.

the job is based on a per sq. foot price not an actual bid. now they dont want to pay for the ridge or hips or the waste. they estimated the sq. footage and i have to show that they need to add hips and ridge too. they only want to pay for flat roof area

For concrete tile:

The most accurate way to do it is to figure the trim separate from the field tile. Reason being that the trim is about three times higher in cost per piece than the field tile.

Factory hipstarters and apexes should be another add each, since they cost around $20.00 each.

If you let someone bullchit you into throwing in the trim you will be basically donating the job in a competitive situation. And it really isn't all that much fun as a hobby, is it?

Don't understand the question. Didn't you figure out how much material (and labor) you needed as part of the original quote? Or are you preparing to quote and are trying to figure out how to price in the hips and ridges? Call me a dumb ruffer, but we try to measure the lengths of the hips and ridges and calculate the product need accordingly, plus a wastage factor for the shingles/panels/tiles at the diagonals and the ridges. Is the "owner" the property owner or the roofing company owner? If the former, then why is it his business, and if the latter, then why is he in this business?