EMPLOYEE SIDE WORK - an old topic revisited

Great Advice taken from our RoofersCoffeeShop.com Forum in 2007: TOPIC - EMPLOYEE SIDE WORK by CHIPPER I remember seeing it discussed before, but how do most owners/managers handle employees finding side work? I don't mind if my guys find some side shingle jobs since we don't mess with that too much but I don't want it interfering with our primary work. I also don't want them talking to my customers about doing side work (paint, power wash, window cleaning, blacktop re-coats, etc) while they are at work. How do most of you all handle this issue?

REPLIES:

TINNER - Wayyyy back whennnn. My Boss would lend me his truck and tools to do side work. TABOO was EVER doing anything with HIS customers. I did work for friends and relatives. (I'm still doing friends and relatives, and their relatives! It's my referral base going back 30+years) I carried on the tradition when I had crews, but didn't lend my trucks.

CHIPPER - I agree. I want my guys to have opportunities but I don't want them creating them while on the clock. I send them on side work all of the time and often loan tools. Never a truck or a ladder for liability reasons. What ticks me off is when a guy doesn't want to come to work for a week because he's locked up a cake job and wants to do it during normal work hours putting us, his full time employer, in a bind.

MIKE H - Under 10 squares, buy material from me, do it when you're not needed here, no problem. Work for a competitor, get flat work and buy materials elsewhere, we have a problem.

HOUSE OF PAIN - My guys can do all the side work they want, just as long as it's not roofing. If they do any roofing, they are fired. No exceptions.

ACE ECO - Side work? If you use the company name/paperwork then you should make something being it's your company. But not using company name/paperwork then why not do all the side jobs in the world?

THE FETTY - I bid a job then got low-bailed by another guy from our shop. Then he asked if I would help! WTF

RIVER RAT DAD - Back when I was an employee the company I worked for didn't have a written policy per say. Personally never did side work, except on rare occasion for a friend, for free. Other guys did though. Some thoughts: Certainly stealing work from the company was unacceptable. Using company equipment was unacceptable. Missing work to do a side job was unacceptable. Other thoughts at large to me are: In general, in America, most people take the stand that "What I do on my own time is my business". Obviously if one is committing crimes against humanity on your own time, it is the business of the employer. My feeling as an employee was that roofing was a very demanding job physically and if I was to give my employer a fair days/weeks effort, I needed to rest my body on the weekends.

ALBA - I don't see anything wrong with the employees doing side work on their own time as long as they don't use their company's tools, trucks and don't compete with the company for the same job. Personally I feel too tired on weekends to do side jobs.

JSC - I've lost untold amounts of materials to side jobs. At the very least, a little mastic, nails, metals, staples on one. At the most, everything but some shingles. I don't know how you really stop it unless you have a zero side job policy. And you'd better have their replacements handy when you have to fire them. There's a fortune to be made in the roofing business if the materials are free and you do the labor yourself.

SCOTT - That is a bad mix. Tell em if they want extra work you can give it to em! I would never let them do it! They either work for me or against me! Too many good reasons as to why, some are stated above.

JET - I'm with HOP, No roofing on the side, PERIOD.

BOBBY - I agree with RRD on this. When I worked for someone and the neighbors came over I figured this was his referral he earned it by being there. A few times I was livid then I had a crew and they gave their names when someone came on my job asking. That's stealing. I did let some guys do side work if I knew it was their relatives but something was always stolen from me.

JSC - I once loaned my crew to my Moose Lodge, who badly needed a roof and had limited funds. Every SOB in there got my men's names and phone numbers, and bypassed me for their personal roofs.

TARFACE - Lose your ticket for scabbing around here.

ANITA - Not allowed. The reason behind that is many, but the big one is, where did the lead come from? Were they on one of our job, had a neighbor come up due to our work, our advertising, our company name, and ask them to come look at his roof? In my opinion, that is employee theft. Use our equipment? The last one that did that (eight years ago_ was terminated. We found out from the customer. (when he called due to a leak six months later) that he understood the employee to be representing our company. Now, if one of our guys is roofing his mothers house, needs to use a ladder, we are informed of the address etc., that is a different story, we might just go help out. Other than that, no side jobs allowed or they can work for someone else.

WILLIE - We use subs so we don't care but if they are gonna do it then they are gonna do it either with or without your help. Probably better to help em out. Maybe they will appreciate it and let it show on your jobs.

BOSS - My guys can do a side job If We don't do that kind of work, it is for a family member or it is for charity. That is it. I got us out of a whole lot of trouble because one of my guys did a side job and did a horrible job of it. His customer called me and started to chew me a new one. That was when I said no more!

SYD - Its tough not to permit your employees from Moonlighting- cause when work is slow, how can you morally prevent it. However, your good intentions can turn into a quagmire if problems arise- for some smart azz lawyer could sue you on basis that these employees are you agents. This is fact, not fiction- and they always go for the people covered w/insurance.

HOTAIR - I agree with Mike as long as it doesn't interfere with their regular job. Our company also throws its better employees a bone or two. We also have several contractors that got their start working for us and are now valued material customers. We refer a lot of the smaller jobs to them when we are really busy as long as they purchase the material from us. We get a share of the pie that we would have otherwise had to turn down because of being too busy.

DARRYL - Your not really supposed to do side jobs this way unless you have a license and pull a permit. If you get caught there are penalties to pay. If we pull a permit for them then we are guilty of aiding and abetting an unlicensed contractor and our licenses can be revoked. So most of the side jobs are done on Sat or Sunday when the license inspectors have a day off. In theory we are supposed to report the workers and the homeowner if we know about the deal. Just like Sergeant Schultz "see and hear nothing".

EXPERIENCED - I wouldn't advise lending equipment to employees or condoning side jobs. Unless like Boss said it's for family members etc. What happens when you need that power ladder or compressor Monday morning and it needs repair or that guy who borrowed it is sick? Many times the guy doing the side jobs in your area can wind up becoming your competition. Working for my father's company for many years and eventually starting my own company, I always had enough respect for him and pride in myself to use my own equipment and do work in a location that he would not travel to.

ED - Many moons ago when I was working in Ft. Worth our boss not only allowed side jobs he would sell em for us! He would tell the customer up from that some of his guys would be doing the work on the side and to pay us directly. We would get the materials from him at just over cost. Everybody was happy.

SHELTER - The thing with side jobs is that the guys never seem to make as much money as they thought they would. They tend to bid on a decent day's wage, but also never allow for anything more. Also, from my experience, they never seem to have everything they need and the job takes longer than expected. All of this is good experience. And maybe they won't take the role of owner/salesman/contractor for granted next time. Just one way to look at it.

Bump

how do you propose to stop this?

just make sure they know that when on a job for you they NEVER step around you.

When buisness is slow, we all look at side work differntly. It's a ripple effect. When people are busy with doing work they normaly would not do. Every Uncle, Brother, Son in Law, is doing work for every freind,and Niegbor. It leaks down to the lagitimate contractor, who resents it. If you don't know this, you simply haven't lived long enough.

Bring the job in, we'll pay you a finders fee or commission, if it's sold full boat, and pay you to put it on. I don't have time to babysit what side jobs they do and if they mess it up the people generally know who they work for. It's a reflection.